This Organization always comes off looking like a joke.

[TheYounGunz]

Hoiberg is on PA and Dubay and said that they have the full intention to keep Mayo but these trade talks got going again mid 2nd round

[mayorhoiberg]

McHale made Hoiberg look like an ass.

I have no idea how Fred isn't pissed off at the very least.

I absolutely would resign if I were him.

He was told he'd have sway here but McHale got his way anyways.

[Wingman]

***posted in wrong thread***

[SSUBluesman]

Jaric is a useful player who makes too much money. Cardinal is a contract that sits on the bench, hence why MEM was packaging him with the #5 pick for David Lee.

**** Miller. We're not that desperate for shooting, especially if you factor in Mayo staying. Oh yea, and unlike Miller and McCants, Mayo actually plays defense. Besides, we're REBUILDING, which means you don't add players like Miller...of course that's if you're going to rebuild the right way, and once again McFail has demonstrated he doesn't know what the **** he is doing. Either way you look at it, there is no reason to get Miller.

Wow, one good perimeter defender. That's all you really need. And besides, why do you need perimeter defense when you you have Love and Jefferson protecting the basket?

So Foye is going to play all 48 minutes, he's guaranteed to pan out, McCants is our guy, etc.? Or, how about the simple fact that it's a young guy that MIGHT develop into a player, trade asset, etc.? But no, you're right, what would this team want with young players with potential?

LOL the Wolves didn't know what they were doing...THEY ADMITTED IT THEMSELVES. The deal was off an on up until the draft, they expected to keep Mayo and then they and the Grizz are calling back and forth, Hoiberg was selling Mayo to the fans as he was being dealt, etc. The "they knew what they were doing" bit is entirely divorced from reality and a desperate attempt to rationalize another example of why this franchise goes nowhere.

Your posts read like shrill man-crushes on Mayo, so I'm not going to apologize for rationalizing. Agree to disagree I guess. Any of the arguments you make can be flipped over (I'm saying you only need one defensive specialist, you're saying shooting isn't a problem) so....

My "rationalization" is a defense of a plan. I didn't say that the plan was guaranteed to work, just that it is a defensible plan.

There is no "defense" available to you because there is no "plan" in which to defend. This is why you come up with strawmen (man-crush on Mayo) instead of providing examples of them knowing what they are doing. This isn't "agree to disagree", because you don't know what the **** you are talking about.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Bluesman -

The plan is to start Love next to Jefferson. On offense, I don't think anyone would deny that's a good combo. On defense the plan is for Love to develop into the "strong guy" (like a Kendrick Perkins or a Brad Miller) next to the the "long guy" (Al Jefferson, who isn't seven feet tall but has a wingspan like KG, Sheed or Duncan.)

The plan is that Foye (who was a high lotto pick, I think) is your point guard.

The plan is that Miller's outside shooting will make both Foye and Jefferson better, and his defensive limitations will be mitigated by another guy you spent a high lotto pick on, Brewer.

Drafting Mayo would have been the start of a plan. The Memphis trade is the whole thing. Again, we're dealing in prospects and veterans who haven't played together yet so none of this is a sure thing. I'm understand you would have been happier keeping Mayo, but he's not Kobe for crying out loud.

Are you moving to Memphis, by the way? I'm sure you can get good seats to see your boy.

[Worm Guts]

Drafting Mayo would have been the start of a plan. The Memphis trade is the whole thing. .

Except this plan doesn't seem to make sense or at the least very short sighted. Calling Jefferson the "long" guy and comparing him to KG, Duncan and Wallace on defense is an incredible reach.

[deeney0]

Yeah, this reaks of quick-fix thinking. McHale had some comments earlier this offseason saying that he felt the team was only a couple pieces away - it's hubris. He thinks McCants, Foye, Brewer will all have breakout seasons, Al can become KG on D... it's not realistic. They weren't willing to take the time this rebuild needed.

[TrentTuckerForever]

Drafting Mayo would have been the start of a plan. The Memphis trade is the whole thing. .

Except this plan doesn't seem to make sense or at the least very short sighted. Calling Jefferson the "long" guy and comparing him to KG, Duncan and Wallace on defense is an incredible reach.

And treating Mayo like he's Kobe Bryant isn't? Again, Mayo is a prospect. Not even THE prospect in this draft (not Beasley, not Rose.)

I didn't compare Jefferson's defense to KG's, Duncan's or Wallace's. I was comparing his body... he's long if not tall. Jefferson isn't even on the same planet as those guys on defense today. He COULD be, five years from now, because he has the physical tools and (we think) the want-to.

If you don't like the plan, fine. If you think keeping Mayo would have been a better plan, fine. To say that there IS no plan is myopic fanboydom, indicative of drinking too much Mayo Kool Aid.

[ChazzleDazzle]

I think it's a good point to wonder why Memphis wanted Mayo, and why they gave up size to get him. Now they have three PGs and Mayo, which means they almost have to play him at the 2, which he seems too small for. Look at their roster right now:

They've got 7 guys shorter than 6'5, and 1 guy taller than 6'9. How's that going to work? Talk about not having a plan...

[Calinks]

I don't care if they thought they were going to stick with Mayo, you don't go our of your way to assure your fans that the man is staying if there is a chance you will deal him. It just looks really bad to the average person.

[DelaneyRudd]

I for one think more highly of the organization now. It was a smart move.

[revprodeji]

Jaric is a useful player who makes too much money. Cardinal is a contract that sits on the bench, hence why MEM was packaging him with the #5 pick for David Lee.

**** Miller. We're not that desperate for shooting, especially if you factor in Mayo staying. Oh yea, and unlike Miller and McCants, Mayo actually plays defense. Besides, we're REBUILDING, which means you don't add players like Miller...of course that's if you're going to rebuild the right way, and once again McFail has demonstrated he doesn't know what the **** he is doing. Either way you look at it, there is no reason to get Miller.

Wow, one good perimeter defender. That's all you really need. And besides, why do you need perimeter defense when you you have Love and Jefferson protecting the basket?

So Foye is going to play all 48 minutes, he's guaranteed to pan out, McCants is our guy, etc.? Or, how about the simple fact that it's a young guy that MIGHT develop into a player, trade asset, etc.? But no, you're right, what would this team want with young players with potential?

LOL the Wolves didn't know what they were doing...THEY ADMITTED IT THEMSELVES. The deal was off an on up until the draft, they expected to keep Mayo and then they and the Grizz are calling back and forth, Hoiberg was selling Mayo to the fans as he was being dealt, etc. The "they knew what they were doing" bit is entirely divorced from reality and a desperate attempt to rationalize another example of why this franchise goes nowhere.

Sorry sir, you are very wrong on a couple points. Jaric took minutes away from guys we want to give minutes to. Foye-Bassy-Shad-Brew(now Miller) Miller is also only 28 it isnt like he is 35. He could be here 6-8 years as a shooter. Also, Foye had a crazy defensive impact when he returned last year. Part of the reason we went .400 with him. The wolves DID know what they were doing. This trade was discussed earlier in the morning (I even posted it on the memphis board) it broke off, and then it restarted again. It is a very good trade. When the deal broke off we thought Mayo was our guy for sure. Then the trade got discussed again.

We said we wanted to add a 2/3 shooter who could score 15+---we also said we wanted to add a big guy to help Al. We did that in this draft.

I'm not sure if this has been posted, but

“This trade should make Minnesota better a lot faster,” said one Western Conference executive.

Another West GM was more succinct: “Memphis got jobbed again.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

ESPN gives wolves better grade then Memphis. The only negatives I have heard are from wolves fans.

Thank you for adding this. I have yet to see a credible NBA writer/poster that does not love this deal for us.

[Ojmayo]

But we did'nt need someone playing the pf we need someone playing the c which Kevin Love does not qualify and now we have our best player in the position that he truly does'nt want himself playing the c

[revprodeji]

When did he say that? Show me. He said he wanted a big to play with and help on rebounds. He has that. Love fits him very well.

[shrink]

McHale made Hoiberg look like an ass.

I have no idea how Fred isn't pissed off at the very least.

I absolutely would resign if I were him.

He was told he'd have sway here but McHale got his way anyways.

I thought the same thing (well, not the resign part).

I understand that they are grooming Freddie, but does this look like McHale is still the main man, and can do whatever he wants?

I've been out of town, so let me aks you guys ..did it sound like Hoiberg was onboard with McHale's trade, or sound like he was giving the company line?

[4ho5ive]

I feel bad for the Mayor. I was really excited last year when McHale sounded like giving it one more year to start us from the ground with a good foundation and pass the torch, but I read somewhere that McHale is saying he wont leave till we are a contender again at the very earliest. Which is a sad fact.

Im not saying we got a bad deal. Just, I think we could have gotten more (one of their PG's or Gasol or something) and it seems like McHale was desperate to fill every hole on the roster this offseason, which, before the draft, I dont remember one person here that wanted our FO to force it and fell all the holes. We knew we were in for the long run, why did they force the issue?

McHale is trying to patch and go for some reason, I dont know why we didnt just go through the rebuild normally.

[captain_cheapseats]

Surprised to hear that a lot of you don't like this, because from an outside fan's perspective, it looks like the T-Wolves got a lot closer to where they need to be. Some thoughts:

#1: A lot has been made of Miller's defense and, it's true, he sucks at it. But at the same time he's an unbelievable scorer, one of the better non-big rebounders out there, and plays two positions equally well. So yeah Miller can't play defense, but if he could the guy would be a freakin' superstar who Memphis would have never given up.

#2: Some of you seem to be downplaying the importance between Jaric and Cardinal's contracts, but trust me, that one year could be huge down the road. Take the Celtics for example.....if they didn't make the trade with Portland that swapped the Lafrentz contract for the one year shorter Ratliff contract, they'd have never gotten KG (or would have to wait through another terrible season before making a move). So while that year seems small now, keep in mind it represents an entire season of mediocrity that can be avoided. I sorta get the "but Jaric is quasi-useful while Cardinal is not" argument, but a franchise killing contract is a franchise killing contract. One year less of dealing with it is far more valuable than anything Jaric has ever done on the court.

#3: Love is not that much worse a prospect than Mayo. Mayo obviously has far more upside, but he also has a lot more bust potential than Love and plays a lower value position. I personally like Mayo, but some of you almost make it seem like you're trading away a Lebron/Oden caliber prospect for some mid-round talent, which is just not the case. You traded an A- prospect for a B+ prospect, and were given a ton of value to induce you into doing so.

And perhaps most importantly, at the end of the day the T-Wolves are in great position rebuilding wise. You've got you're best young player -- who is already looking like a beast -- locked into a bargain contract well into the foreseeable future, and all the right kinds of complimentary players surrounding him. Basically all you're missing (assuming that Love pans out to at least an adequate player) is a defensive minded center who can bring energy, along with another year or two of experience/improvement from Jefferson, Brewer and Foye. I'm not sure there's another team in a pure rebuilding mode right now that can say they are in as good a spot.

I don't care if they thought they were going to stick with Mayo, you don't go our of your way to assure your fans that the man is staying if there is a chance you will deal him. It just looks really bad to the average person.

I guess so, but a hard-core fan probably wouldn't mind the lie if it ended up netting the team more in a trade. The statements made building up Mayo were being made for Memphis, to convince them that they would have to give up a lot to pry him away from Minny. It worked, so no use crying over spilled milk.

[Devilzsidewalk]

But we did'nt need someone playing the pf we need someone playing the c which Kevin Love does not qualify and now we have our best player in the position that he truly does'nt want himself playing the c

I see two PF/C's

[Calinks]

I guess so, but a hard-core fan probably wouldn't mind the lie if it ended up netting the team more in a trade. The statements made building up Mayo were being made for Memphis, to convince them that they would have to give up a lot to pry him away from Minny. It worked, so no use crying over spilled milk.

Regardless of the result the fact of the matter is that instances such as this reflect on an organization's credibility and reliability. We did the same thing in the past when Dwane Casey told all of his players in the locker room that nobody was going to be traded and then out of nowhere McHale made the deal that sent players packing.

Now to the best of Casey's knowledge that wasn't going to happen but how would you feel if you were a player worried about possibly getting moved and then assured you weren't and then next thing you know you are packing your bags?

If I was looking over teams to deal with and I knew about these instances I may go with another organization because this one apparently has trouble keeping their word or has communication issues. It's not cool to let your fans go to sleep believing you are going to keep a player because you told them so in person and then having them wake up shocked and applaud. I know why it happened that way and it may have been the best move for the team but the execution of it was poorly done.

And thing about spilt milk is that if it is not cleaned up properly, it begins to rot and then begins to give off an odor. Instead of attracting people that odor repels them. This organization is starting to make a habit of spilling milk and they better start cleaning it up and being more careful before the stench becomes permanent.

[big3_8_19_21]

And perhaps most importantly, at the end of the day the T-Wolves are in great position rebuilding wise. You've got you're best young player -- who is already looking like a beast -- locked into a bargain contract well into the foreseeable future, and all the right kinds of complimentary players surrounding him. Basically all you're missing (assuming that Love pans out to at least an adequate player) is a defensive minded center who can bring energy, along with another year or two of experience/improvement from Jefferson, Brewer and Foye. I'm not sure there's another team in a pure rebuilding mode right now that can say they are in as good a spot.

well...besides Portland...but I guess that's a given.

A couple aspects I'm really looking forward to:

Owning the glass. Al's a beast rebounder of course, and I believe Kevin Love was the no. 1 rebounder in the NCAA adjusted for pace (Including rebounding king Michael Beasley).
Free points. Love's outlet passes should get us quite a few easy lay-ups in transition.
Single coverage on Jefferson. With shooters like Foye, McCants and Miller plus the offensive prowess of Love, Jefferson is going to get plenty of 1-on-1 opportunities in the post, which hardly even seems fair.