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Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs

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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#441 » by _AIJ_ » Thu Nov 6, 2008 7:52 am

give our young PGs some time, they're still adjusting especially foye, and brewer, he's such a gifted athlete he does all the little things and love is great 'nuff sed. just give our guys some time.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#442 » by shiroi_ch » Thu Nov 6, 2008 9:03 am

miller played very well. we want to play like this... i think love starting, too.

i think
5=bassy/foye/miller/love/al jeff

bench=olie/mccants/brewer/gomes/smith
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#443 » by hijacktheparade » Thu Nov 6, 2008 9:12 am

Way too much to read through here. I was getting the score texted to me each quarter through ESPN while at the Utah/Portland game. I thought the Wolves were going to pull it off...

I'll have to watch the archived game tomorrow but a couple of things on the box score stood out to me. It seems that the Spurs were essentially carried by only three players. It also seems like Miller finally got a significant number of shots off and did his three point thing that he does so well. Telfair and Foye also had pretty good games. That's good news but it didn't lead to a win.

1-3 :-?
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#444 » by jdub114 » Thu Nov 6, 2008 9:49 am

You can't just point to Telfair's D as being horrible. Foye and Brewer were getting abused more, but each in a different way. Parker was driving past Foye and Brewer all day using his quickness, but against Telfair he couldn't use his quickness as much so he hitting those jumpers off the screens.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#445 » by Devilzsidewalk » Thu Nov 6, 2008 1:08 pm

the thing that bothers me is that outside of the addition to Love, the team looks no different from last year.

All these young players and no noticeable improvement from last year save for Corey's jumper looking better.

Maybe they're still mourning KG because Foye and McCants had the juice when KG was here, but now they look like they want to be role players all their career.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#446 » by shrink » Thu Nov 6, 2008 1:26 pm

Even though we lost, I was encouraged by the crunch-time stand, and grit some of our players showed. This would have been a big win since its the Spurs, but as I look to 2009, this game encourages me after the game last weekend.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#447 » by Mattya » Thu Nov 6, 2008 3:22 pm

Im pretty happy about this game even though it was a loss, we played a veteren team to its limit, I really don't think Manu could have helped them much more, with how well Parker and Mason shot, you gotta think Manu would have only been taking from those shots, maybe the only thing was, he would have gotten us in more foul trouble and had more free throws, even though Mason did shot 6 of 6 and Parker had 9 of 10.

Al showed he can play well in close games, and hit big baskets, all while playing 48 minutes!!!

Mike Miller hit some big shot, deeeeeeeeeep 3s, and you could just tell they were going in too

LOVE, is the best player in the NBA lol, you can't help but root for him, he hit some big shots, and had a lot of blocks on TD last night, I don't remember TD scoring on BIG LOVE.

I think we are being a little hard on Foye and Bassy, I think you got to be happy when you get 19 points and 19 assists from your pg. Sure Foye had a couple big turnovers but everyone has bad plays sometimes, he did make it up in the end with the baskets late in the game. They didn't play particularly well on D, but sometimes guys like Mason are gonna go off on you. can't do much when anyone is on FIRE.

You know even though Parker had 55, Corey really did play good defense on him, can't do much about him going off like that either.

We really can take a lot of good things away from this game
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#448 » by TMo519 » Thu Nov 6, 2008 3:24 pm

Very encouraging game. Many times the Spurs hit some daggers and we just kept fighting until they just got the best of us in the end. I'm pissed that we lost, but I can't be mad at the effort. I really wish that last shot by Big Al could have been the game winner cause moments like that get you more and more pub and respect, but that will also come with wins, which they HAVE to get this weekend.

Love keeps impressing, Brewer has definitely shown improvement. Foye got better, and Telfair looks like he's in good form. Lots to be happy with.

Aside from the throwaway game in OKC, I have been okay with the team's play. They played Dallas and San Antonio tough at home, but that OKC game just left a bad taste in my mouth really. They have to start winning some games soon before it gets toxic around here though.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#449 » by C.lupus » Thu Nov 6, 2008 3:35 pm

TheFranchise21 wrote:I'm not going to pin this loss on Wittman, but that was as stupid as a play call gets. We lost this game because Tony Parker killed us on the pick and roll. He probably had like a 80-90% efficiency on those PnRs.


Wittman didn't lose the game but he didn't win it either. The coach needs to be able to put his team in the best position to win and he botched that.

Other than that, very exciting, entertaining game!
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#450 » by Devilzsidewalk » Thu Nov 6, 2008 3:38 pm

I'm not feeling the optimism you guys are I guess. I know we played them close, but it was because of Love/Jefferson/and Miller, but we already knew those 3 were good before the season, or at least Miller and Jefferson, but the only way this team becomes good is with Foye and McCants stepping up and they're not looking comfortable at all. This was supposed to be the season where all the excuses about injuries and crap are finally out of the way and those 2 can show the "real" McCants and Foye. Nothing more frustrating than watching a young player regress, it's supposed to be the opposite.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#451 » by C.lupus » Thu Nov 6, 2008 4:16 pm

^I hear what you are saying devilz but I haven't given up on Foye yet. It's early in the season and he's in a shooting slump. I'm going to give him some more games to snap out of it.

I have all but given up on McCants, though. Partly because of Shad and partly because the way Wittman uses him. I just don't see a future for him on the Wolves.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#452 » by Devilzsidewalk » Thu Nov 6, 2008 4:29 pm

I haven't given up on Foye as a player, but I don't think he fits with Al Jefferson. With KG it was different because KG doesn't clog the lane, but Al is a pure low post player and Foye isn't dynamic enough off the dribble to find space in such a congested area. He needs a more wide open system.

McCants is a good scorer, but he's not consistent enough possession by possession to get minutes because Wittman will pull him if he makes mistakes, and he's gonna make mistakes, so he's of little use then. I don't think you can teach him like that, either accept what he is and give him 30 mpg regardless, or else trade him. He's not the type of person to have an epiphany and change his ways while pondering why he was pulled as he sits on the end of the bench. His attitude is that he's a good player. Period. He'll reluctantly accept what Wittman says or does that he doesn't agree with, but he's not going to change. He's not a "yes sir, right away sir" good soldier type, he's a renegade, he's a mercenary. He's on his own and that's the way he likes it. So if Wittman can't handle that (obviously he can't, only a few unique coaches can) then the Wolves should trade him.

Too many players are out of their element. Fact is, McCants and Foye pre-date Jefferson and were never meant to fit around him, and I think it's proven that they don't. They want to build around a low post presence with shooters and defense, so either change the players or change the system because these players don't fit this system. Brewer kinda does because his shot is coming along and he plays defense, Gomes kinda does but he's out of position, Miller does a bit because he's a veteran, although his defense is kinda down, but Foye and McCants have that #1 option ingrained in them. Foye is trying hard, but his talents are going to waste. He's not Billups, he's more Steve Francis than Billups.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#453 » by Winter Wonder » Thu Nov 6, 2008 4:44 pm

Biggest problem the team has is defending the screen. It seemed everytime SA set a screen our defenders ran into it, ran into their teammate who is defending the screener, or they chase behind the guy cutting off the screen. And that is just the off the ball screen. There is not enough hedging with on the ball screens or giving enough space for the defender to go under. Additionally, rotations and help side defense is too slow with most players.

I do think the help defense is improving and some players see it and get it, but screens/picks killed us and Parker and the Spurs are great at running that type of offense. They really know how to run off screens and get open. Watching MN running of screens with some of the young guys, they leave too much space and the defender is usually able to stay with them, making the screen useless. SA doesn't have that problem (of course, not sure how legal all the screens are that they set, but that is a different issue).

Regardless, was fun to see them in the game, felt like we blew it though and should have won. Hate to admit how big a fan of Kevin Love I am becoming, but the kid works so hard and does some great things out there. Nice to see Miller look a bit like his old self as well. There is still a lot to like about the Wolves, and the season is young.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#454 » by TMo519 » Thu Nov 6, 2008 5:50 pm

I know people keep saying they're down on Foye, but I mean, he did go 11 points, 9 assists, 5 rebounds and 2 TOs last night against the Spurs. That's not terrible at all. His shooting looks like it's starting to wake up. If he can produce those numbers with better shooting, I likes it a lot. Yeah, he made the one boneheaded pass (which is also partly Miller's fault as well btw), but overall, I was not mad at how Foye played last night. Had the best +/- of the night too.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#455 » by the_bruce » Thu Nov 6, 2008 6:07 pm

I partially agree with Devilz.

Mostly I think Whittman isn't using Foye & McCants the way
they should be used. Especially in McCants case.

Either start Shad and play him 30mpg or until he fouls out
or trade him. Ship him to GSW, NYK, or PHX.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#456 » by 4ho5ive » Thu Nov 6, 2008 6:08 pm

TMo519 wrote:I know people keep saying they're down on Foye, but I mean, he did go 11 points, 9 assists, 5 rebounds and 2 TOs last night against the Spurs. That's not terrible at all. His shooting looks like it's starting to wake up. If he can produce those numbers with better shooting, I likes it a lot. Yeah, he made the one boneheaded pass (which is also partly Miller's fault as well btw), but overall, I was not mad at how Foye played last night. Had the best +/- of the night too.


This is what im saying. Foye had two real big baskets towards the end of the game. Im so glad Witt didnt pull him after his TO's, you have to let the kids play through mistakes. He had a little bit of trouble guarding Parker (obviously) but he did a much better job on Mason then when we left Telfair on him.

I agree with Devilz that this "system" doesnt fit Foye and McCants well at all. I dont think that means get rid of them, but it seems like McCants is damn near on his way out which is pretty sad that such a dynamic scorer cant get burn here.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#457 » by Calinks » Thu Nov 6, 2008 6:28 pm

As I said last year. I'm not really seeing the progression in players I'd like to see. I think the coaching staff is doing a poor job, obviously our guys want to get better. They worked their butts off over the summer to improve but I don't know if Wittman is capable of maximizing our players potential. We all saw improvement to our young players when Casey was coaching. Foye and McCants looked better then too. What is going on here? How are players supposed to buy into a system that doesn't seem to work. For that matter what is our system? What is our identity as a team?
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#458 » by IcemanMN » Thu Nov 6, 2008 7:10 pm

RD&KG2 wrote:I for one, thought Foye had a solid game outside of the two (huge) turnovers. He playded a good game and was made some big shots when we needed them.

I also thought he played a good game, but not as a point guard. Most of the time, it seemed like he dribbled the ball up the court, handed it off, and moved to a spot on the 3 point line. Bassy was clearly the best PG last night.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#459 » by IcemanMN » Thu Nov 6, 2008 7:16 pm

Calinks3 wrote:As I said last year. I'm not really seeing the progression in players I'd like to see. I think the coaching staff is doing a poor job, obviously our guys want to get better. They worked their butts off over the summer to improve but I don't know if Wittman is capable of maximizing our players potential. We all saw improvement to our young players when Casey was coaching. Foye and McCants looked better then too. What is going on here? How are players supposed to buy into a system that doesn't seem to work. For that matter what is our system? What is our identity as a team?

Wow, did you even watch the game? Brewer stopped shooting jump shots and cut to the basket for passes, which he got. On defense, I saw both Al and Love doing a great job of defending Duncan in the low post. They forced him to shoot from outside, which unfortunately he was finally able to do. Bassy played the best game offensively at PG that I have seen since Sam Cassell was one of the MV3. I also have a lot of doubt about Wittman, but player development is happening before your eyes.
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Re: Game Thread: Twolves Vs. Spurs 

Post#460 » by TrentTuckerForever » Thu Nov 6, 2008 7:23 pm

^ I think you're both right - there is some progression, but the Wolves' "system" is vague and, considering the talent on the team, ill concieved. Look at the Spurs. The reason they've had the success they've had is that everyone on the team fits around Duncan.

I think Miller fits with Jefferson, and it's looking (from a small sample size) that Love might too. McCants should fit, but he's being jerked around minutes-wise. If he was just a pure, scoring 6th man I think he'd be fine (think Ben Gordon in Chicago) but he wants more, and Witt lacks the juice or the acumen to convince him otherwise. Brewer can fit if his shooting continues to improve. Gomes is fine, at least against smaller teams.

But the big problem is Foye - if he can be a 16-7 guy, a Billups-type floor leader, everything else looks better. As long as he struggles running the team and on defense, the rest of the pieces don't fit quite right. It is really, really early in the season, so we shouldn't rush to judgement. I'd judge a 2OT loss against the Spurs a good step forward overall.
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