4 team trade MN/PH/CHI/WASH

[TDWOLVESFAN]

MINNESOTA
IN
DARIOUS SONGAILA 4.2
JOAKIM NOAH 2.3
THABO SEFOLOSHA 1.9
Phoenix 2010 #1 Pick
Out
JASON COLLINS 6.2
RASHAD McCANTS 2.6
CALVIN BOOTH 1.1
2009 1st round pick (late) to Chicago

We dump two contracts and pick up high energy players in Noah (rebounding and interior defense) and Seflosha (length and athletism). We also avoid getting nothing in return for Rashad in the future. Songaila does nothing for us defensively but will not hesitate to shoot when needed. We would probably have to give up one of many 2009 picks to get this done. However, we pick up a pick for 2010.

CHICAGO
IN
ROBIN LOPEZ 1.6
ALANDO TUCKER 1.0
Out
JOAKIM NOAH 2.3
THABO SEFOLOSHA 1.9
2009 1st round pick (late) from MN
Chicago gets rid of two malcontents in Del Negro's system and picks up young talent he may be more happy with plus a 2009 pick.

WASHINGTON
IN
LEANDRINHO BARBOSA 6.1
JASON COLLINS 6.2
Future 2nd Round Pick
Out
DARIOUS SONGAILA 4.2
ETAN THOMAS 7.5
JUAN DIXON 1.0
Washighton replaces Dixon with Barbosa, they also get an expiring contract in Collins, To make the numbers work I had to include Songaila. They won't have to give many minutes to Collins and he won't complain about or get into fist fights with Haywood.

PHOENIX
IN
ETAN THOMAS 7.5
CALVIN BOOTH 1.1
RASHAD McCANTS 2.6
JUAN DIXON 1.0

Out
LEANDRINHO BARBOSA 6.1
ROBIN LOPEZ 1.6
ALANDO TUCKER 1.0
2010 #1 Pick
Future 2nd Round Pick
Phoenix gives up some of its future to get immediate help behind Shaq with Etan Thomas. Rashad should thrive in an offense run by Steve Nash. Juan Dixon can give them some back-up minutes at point and add speed to their line-up.

[Devilzsidewalk]

phoenix's 2010 is already going to OKC. I can't imagine them giving up Lopez either

[4ho5ive]

Yikes, Phoenix gives up two 1st rounders and the very talented Barbosa for the disappointing McCants, semi useful Thomas and Dixon, and irrelevant Booth. I think PHX could find better return if they are moving those pieces.

I like what we get but i dont like Songalia's 3rd year. No way he walks away from that money.

[Devilzsidewalk]

I was with it all the way up to Lopez and the draft picks going out for Phx. MN wouldn't need the pick I don't think, there's enough incentive in incoming talent, but the Lopez part needs some work. If you take him out it's more fair for Phx, but then Chicago needs incentive.

[TDWOLVESFAN]

I was with it all the way up to Lopez and the draft picks going out for Phx. MN wouldn't need the pick I don't think, there's enough incentive in incoming talent, but the Lopez part needs some work. If you take him out it's more fair for Phx, but then Chicago needs incentive.

What if you leave Lopez in Phoenix and Chicago gets the future 1st round pick from Phoenix and Minnesota doesn't? Phoenix feels that their window of opportunity is closing on Shaq and Nash.

[Devilzsidewalk]

Phoenix can't trade any 1sts, they traded it to OKC (when they were Seattle)in the Kurt Thomas trade

[shrink]

Concentrating on our side, we're trading all expirings, and the salary breaks down like this:

Darius Songaila 4,234,000 4,526,000 4,818,000
Joakim Noah 2,295,480 2,455,680
Thabo Sefalosha 1,931,160 2,759,628

Jason Collins 6,200,000
Rashad McCants 2,620,126
Calvin Booth 1,319,651

So we add $9.7 mil in 2009-10, and the frustrating $4.8 mil in 2010-11.

Antother way to look at it is the individual deals. Sefalosha is intrigueing, but I'd estimate neutral value. Noah has been truly awful this season, so I think the question comes down to whether Noah is still worth taking on a very negatively valued Sefalosha? I'm indifferent. However, we're adding trade value here. They all have positive values as expiring, McCants has upside, and Booth's deal is mostly paid for.

It seems fair for our side .. the question to me would be whether we could spend them oney better on other players?

[4ho5ive]

I personally think Sefolosha has been misused his entire career. I think he can be a really good NBA player, he can contribute in numerous ways and i would love to take a chance on him. Same goes for Noah. But again, the deal breaker for me is Songalia and his uselessness.

The team has some sort of FA aspirations whether it be 09 or 2010, maybe they wont use any coin on a FA but they want capspace going into the next couple seasons so i think we end up declining based on that alone.

[shrink]

WAS seemed to me to be sucking all the value out of the deal, so I removed them, and di a little shifting, until it ended up something like this:

MIN IN: Noah, Sefalosha
MIN OUT: McCants, Booth, UTA pick

PHO IN: McCants, UTA pick
PHO OUT: Lopez, Alando Tucker

CHI IN: Lopez, Tucker, Booth
CHI OUT: Noah, Sefalosha

When push came to shove though, if I had to pick which center I prefered next to Al, I'd go with Robin Lopez over Noah. Noah's recent play scares me. Another way to do this deal might be to cut out CHI, and offer

McCants + Collins + late pick for Lopez + Barbosa

Barbosa may be worth his long contract (its hard to tell in PHO), but their cheap owner might take the deal to escape the lux and all of Barbosa's years of guaranteed salary. If we didn't like Barbosa, we could probably spin him elsewhere.

[B Calrissian]

WAS seemed to me to be sucking all the value out of the deal, so I removed them, and di a little shifting, until it ended up something like this:

MIN IN: Noah, Sefalosha
MIN OUT: McCants, Booth, UTA pick

PHO IN: McCants, UTA pick
PHO OUT: Lopez, Alando Tucker

CHI IN: Lopez, Tucker, Booth
CHI OUT: Noah, Sefalosha

When push came to shove though, if I had to pick which center I prefered next to Al, I'd go with Robin Lopez over Noah. Noah's recent play scares me. Another way to do this deal might be to cut out CHI, and offer

McCants + Collins + late pick for Lopez + Barbosa

Barbosa may be worth his long contract (its hard to tell in PHO), but their cheap owner might take the deal to escape the lux and all of Barbosa's years of guaranteed salary. If we didn't like Barbosa, we could probably spin him elsewhere.

I don't think the Suns could do the first deal. They can't trade a big man without getting one back now that Diaw is gone. The second trade would be awesome. But I think the Suns would rather have Telfair if they are dealing Barbosa. I think they would probably want both the late 1sts too.

Nash/Telfair/Dragic
Richardson/Barnes
Hill/Dudley/Tucker
Amare/Amundson
Shaq/Collins

Foye/Barbosa/Ollie
Miller/McCants
(Brewer)Gomes/Carney
Love/Smith/Cardinal
Jefferson/Lopez/Madsen

Edit- After looking at those rosters Smith might be more valueable than Telfair to them. Smith/Collins/Ollie/late 1sts for Barbosa/Lopez/Amundson

[4ho5ive]

I would prefer Barbosa come off the bench as a 2 rather than a 1.

Also, i think Phoenix could get more for Barbosa + Lopez than an expiring and a backup that may or may not contribute.

[B Calrissian]

I would prefer Barbosa come off the bench as a 2 rather than a 1.

Also, i think Phoenix could get more for Barbosa + Lopez than an expiring and a backup that may or may not contribute.

I am cringing at the thought of Barbosa and Miller taking up the bulk of the minutes for wings. If Love and Jefferson are going to be the frontcourt they need defenders that can shoot on the wings. If Brewer can continue to improve his shot he will fit in perfectly. Everybodys favorite Mike Miller is a good guy, a great shooter(when he shoots), but he is a bad defender. If the third wing, along with Brewer, in the rotation is a great defender it could be covered up. Gomes is not that great defender. Although.. Gomes is a better defender than Miller and has been shooting the ball well. Maybe the Wolves should shoot for him to be the worst defensive wing in the rotation. If a guy like Battier was in place of Miller this team would a lot better off. ..To bring it full circle and end my tired rant, Barbosa is certainly not a player the Wolves need playing sg. However, is defense at pg is better than at sg. That is why I listed him as I did.

[4ho5ive]

Understandable. I just dont like Barbosa at PG. My brother is a Suns fan so i have seen my fair share of their games and everytime i see him commanding the offense i come away with a bad taste in my mouth.

[B Calrissian]

Understandable. I just dont like Barbosa at PG. My brother is a Suns fan so i have seen my fair share of their games and everytime i see him commanding the offense i come away with a bad taste in my mouth.

All he would have to do is pass to Love or Jefferson in the post then get ready to either shoot an open three or pass to an open team mate. I don't see why he wouldn't be able to handle that. Love/Jefferson create their own shots. The Wolves don't really need true point guards as much as most teams.

[shrink]

I agree with B Calrissian on using Telfair instead, but I'd prefer using McCants in addition, if it meant saving picks.

I don't think that Barbosa is a particularly good fit here, but JRich may cost him some of his minutes if he stays in PHO. In any event, paying him and J-Rich is a lot of money spent on duplication. We know Sarver is desperate to get the Suns under the lux. Perhaps involving a third team, with a good player on a two-year deal, would make sense in a three way trade:

PHO OUT: Barbosa + Lopez
PHO IN: Collins (exp) + Telfair + McCants

MIN OUT Collins + Telfair + McCants
MIN IN: ?????? (2-year) + Lopez

????? OUT: ?????? (2-year)
????? IN: Barbosa

Where would Barbosa fit?

[4ho5ive]

Etan Thomas/Washington came to mind. Though without ridding themselves of Stevenson their backcourt is relatively crowded

Tony Battie/Orlando
Wally World maybe

Not sure if this is how it works but what about using our Trade exception to acquire Jared Dudley, then proceeding with

MIN OUT: Collins + McCants + Telfair
MIN IN: Malik Rose + Robin Lopez

PHX OUT: Barbosa + Lopez
PHX IN: Collins + McCants + Telfair

NYK IN: Barbosa
NYK OUT: Malik Rose

We swap Collins for Rose, and get Lopez our project big.
Phoenix clears mad cap space while bringing in back ups on very cheap deals.
New York turns Malik Rose into Barbosa, who D'Antoni mentioned wanting to go after earlier this year if he and Diaw were available. Barbosa runs past 2010 however.

[shrink]

LOL! I know it was late at night, but I think I just came to basically the same trade that others proposed in the Collins-Barbosa thread. I guess that's a good "GMTA" moment, and probably means that its fair.

[shrink]

4ho5ive, I really like that Knicks trade idea, and I think it would make every team happy.

[B Calrissian]

I agree with B Calrissian on using Telfair instead, but I'd prefer using McCants in addition, if it meant saving picks.

I don't think that Barbosa is a particularly good fit here, but JRich may cost him some of his minutes if he stays in PHO. In any event, paying him and J-Rich is a lot of money spent on duplication. We know Sarver is desperate to get the Suns under the lux. Perhaps involving a third team, with a good player on a two-year deal, would make sense in a three way trade:

PHO OUT: Barbosa + Lopez
PHO IN: Collins (exp) + Telfair + McCants

MIN OUT Collins + Telfair + McCants
MIN IN: ?????? (2-year) + Lopez

????? OUT: ?????? (2-year)
????? IN: Barbosa

Where would Barbosa fit?

I think that is too much salary for the Suns to take in. How about sending Barbosa and McCants to New York for Jefferies and Gallinari (or maybe Wilson Chandler)? With Telfair/Collins/late 1st(s) still going to the Suns for Barbosa and Lopez.

[shrink]

You may be right about taking on salary, even if its being cleared long-term. If my numbers are right, PHO is probably down to about $75 mil after the JRich deal, so Sarver is probably smelling the luxury threshold ($71.15?).

Shaq and Nash come off the books in 2010, so maybe Jeffries 3-year deal is the wrong one either here or there -- though you're right, Galinari would be a great prize. I could probably be talked into it.

We could also add incentive for PHO by taking Alando Tucker for our TPE, though they need to be concerned about meeting minimum roster requirements. Deferred picks are also nice compensation, and ones that won't pop up next year and add salary might be looked upon favorably by the Suns.