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Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?

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Post#1 Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:00 pm by NyCeEvO

Who's #4?

**This about who is better right now, not when healthy. We will run this again toward the end of the season and if injured players are more healthy and playing better at that time, we will rank them accordingly.**

Top 25 Players Pt.II
1) LBJ
2) KD
3) CP3
4)


D12?
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D-Wade?
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Kobe?
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Melo?
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TD?
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D12 - 624, rj2496 (2)
D-Wade - E (1)
Kobe - VC4P (1)
Melo - JJ, DarkXaero, NyCe, macgyver, NjNeTs1029, JMAINE_PH, rb3 (7)
TD - jeff, R0nito, NIN, Petro, JoseRizal (5)
Reporter: "So your team has so much talent and yet they seem so lost. Are you trying to lose games?"

Jason Kidd: "Yes, we are...It's a process..." :-?
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Post#2 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:02 pm by NyCeEvO

Ok, someone convince me why Melo can't be #4?

His team is 17-5, he's dominating the opposition offensively, he's led his team to the best record in the ECF.

Dwight and Kobe are putting up stats but they're not translating to wins.


DISCUSS!!
Reporter: "So your team has so much talent and yet they seem so lost. Are you trying to lose games?"

Jason Kidd: "Yes, we are...It's a process..." :-?
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Post#3 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:04 pm by jeff1624

If we're basing this entirely off of wins then Kobe and Dwight aren't 'Melo's main competition... Duncan is.

If Dwight were 100% I'd put his corny ass in this spot. Since he isn't I'd say it's a toss up between Duncan and Melo.

Duncan is my choice... 'Melo will go 5th in my ballot.
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Post#4 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:24 pm by vincecarter4pres

I'm still going Dwight. Maybe it's a tad silly. Maybe it's cause I'm such a hater, although I hate Dwight these days as well and I have always hated the Lakers a close 2nd to the Knix.
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Post#5 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:47 pm by N Ireland Nets

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Post#6 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:13 pm by Ronito

Right now? Like, this year? Duncan.
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Post#7 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:42 pm by DarkXaero

What is the judging criteria for this? Is it based on the season so far? Because as much as I'd hate to admit it, Melo would then be easily #4.
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Post#8 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:43 pm by jeff1624

DarkXaero wrote:What is the judging criteria for this? Is it based on the season so far? Because as much as I'd hate to admit it, Melo would then be easily #4.


Again, why easily over Duncan?
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Post#9 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:50 pm by DarkXaero

jeff1624 wrote:
DarkXaero wrote:What is the judging criteria for this? Is it based on the season so far? Because as much as I'd hate to admit it, Melo would then be easily #4.


Again, why easily over Duncan?
Duncan would be my #3. CP3 hasn't been that great this season IMO to warrant a top 3 ranking.
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Post#10 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:41 am by 624

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Post#11 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:59 am by therealbig3

I'm voting Duncan. His per 36 minute numbers are back to his prime averages, he's only playing 30 mpg this year though, still putting up 18/10 on great efficiency. Playing DPOY-caliber defense (as usual).

Melo's my pick for #5.
Risk101 wrote:What Lebron did to the Miami Heat is a lot worse then what Dwight did to the Lakers but Dwight was labelled a coward and Lebron is labelled a hero.
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Post#12 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:48 am by jerseyjac

Melo...

Easily Melo's game right now has impacted more wins for his team than Dwight...I'm not saying that Dwight isn't in the process of getting back to 100%, but that remains to be seen...yeh you can say Dwight has tough situation w/ a depleted Lakers team...thats bull IMO, you either can play with black mamba or you cannot...Dwight needs to continue to perform and mature as a basketball player and learn what it takes to win and play with Kobe...

Dwight in prior years had what it took to get a team to the finals (if thats what you are basing you're opinion on)...now between the media frenzy, his public comments and inability to lead by example has pushed him down the line...He is not leader in my eyes and even when he was playing at a high level I thought he lacked in that area almost adding wood to the fire rather than trying put out fires...he needs to mature and he has to learn to play w/in a system...With that said and watching a bunch of Lakers games this year, I definitely feel he needs to get more touches...but Dwight seems passive, maybe because he is playing with Kobe, maybe because of his surgery, but in no way has he impressed me this year...

Melo's aggressiveness, his defense and most importantly his leadership has lifted his overall game putting his name in the mix for MVP this year...you name a year, every year prior I would of said Melo doesn't play D, he rarely rebounds and he lacks leadership...Loved him in college and hated his game in the NBA...well, he is finally showing the complete package and he easily takes #4 for me...
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Post#13 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:00 pm by NyCeEvO

therealbig3 wrote:I'm voting Duncan. His per 36 minute numbers are back to his prime averages, he's only playing 30 mpg this year though, still putting up 18/10 on great efficiency. Playing DPOY-caliber defense (as usual).

Melo's my pick for #5.

My only knock on Duncan for this ranking is the fact that he's got TP playing well right there with him. There's a symbiotic relationship with those two that's quite interesting. 5-6 years ago, Timmy was largely carrying the Spurs and was THE dominant guy and TP definitely helped them to be successful but wasn't a main cog in the way that he is now.

Melo does not have TP next to him.

Code: Select all
                                                                                     
Rk           Player   MP  FG  FGA  FG%  3P 3PA  3P%  FT FTA  FT% TRB AST STL TOV  PTS
1    Raymond Felton 33.5 6.4 16.0 .401 1.7 4.4 .392 1.4 1.9 .732 2.7 6.8 1.3 2.5 15.9
2       Tony Parker 32.8 7.6 15.0 .508 0.4 1.0 .364 3.5 4.2 .817 3.3 7.5 0.7 2.2 19.1

TP is better in almost every statistical category than Felton averages more points on less FGM on less FGA and less minutes than Felton.

While Duncan is playing very well, I feel like the team success has to do more with him and TP as a unit more so the Knicks' success has to do with Melo and anyone else on the team at the moment.

Btw, Melo's averaging 45.5% from 3. 2.6 3ptM out of 5.6 3ptA. Absolutely ridiculous.
Reporter: "So your team has so much talent and yet they seem so lost. Are you trying to lose games?"

Jason Kidd: "Yes, we are...It's a process..." :-?
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Post#14 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:12 pm by N Ireland Nets

I'm voting for Duncan here. His stats are similar to his MVP seasons
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Post#15 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:29 pm by therealbig3

Who cares whether or not Duncan has TP next to him though? It's about a team effort, and Melo's team is playing as well as anyone else's supporting cast right now. They're playing defense, they're rebounding, and they're shooting lights out. JR Smith has cooled off, but he's been an overall excellent 2nd option all year.

Focusing on who has the better second option or third option kind of misses the point imo. It's about how the supporting cast is collectively playing. And collectively, Melo's supporting cast is playing as well as anyone else's.

The Spurs have a similar record, and Duncan is imo putting up better production, and more importantly, when I see Duncan play, he almost looks like he did 10 years ago. And that guy was the best player in the game at one point. He's obviously not at that level anymore...but based on what we've seen so far, he has been playing at that level. In fact, he's actually doing what Dwight was expected to do...score 18+ ppg on great efficiency and play DPOY defense.
Risk101 wrote:What Lebron did to the Miami Heat is a lot worse then what Dwight did to the Lakers but Dwight was labelled a coward and Lebron is labelled a hero.
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Post#16 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:30 pm by therealbig3

BTW, some of the Knicks biggest wins this season have come either when Melo has struggled or hasn't played. The supporting cast has very clearly done their job at an elite level this season.
Risk101 wrote:What Lebron did to the Miami Heat is a lot worse then what Dwight did to the Lakers but Dwight was labelled a coward and Lebron is labelled a hero.
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Post#17 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 12:56 pm by macgyver893

Even though I had Kobe at 3, after watching some more of him I think it must be Melo.

I seriously think it would be a disservice to have Melo any lower than 4 right now. As much as I dislike the Knix and their team (and my passion of hatred for JR Smith), he is carrying his team to an amazing record and they're really a contender now in my eyes. He is virtually unguardable. I think KD is the only better offensive player in the game now and offense speaks volumes in this league.

Sure Melo has his moments where he is a crybaby and doesn't play defense, but his game is just on right now.
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Post#18 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:35 pm by NyCeEvO

therealbig3 wrote:BTW, some of the Knicks biggest wins this season have come either when Melo has struggled or hasn't played. The supporting cast has very clearly done their job at an elite level this season.

Really?

He just scored 30pts in 22min against LAL which was a blowout. He gets injured and the Knicks squeak by.

He had 45pts and the W against us this past week.

He might've shot poorly (10/28 to be exact) in the first game of the season against MIA but he still had 30 along with 10 rebounds and the W. We know what it's like to start off poor and then get better, right (....Joe Johnson)?

And the losses that he played in....

He had foul trouble in the loss against MEM, shot 7/14 from the field.

He fouls out in the lost against DAL, shot 7/16 and they which they only lost by 3 points.

He went off against HOU in a game where he clearly not the main problem. 14/24 for 37pts.

He loses against us in the first Battle of the Boroughs, started hot then went cold, but still managed to shoot a respectable 44%. He had 35/13 on 11/25 shooting and would've had even more if he didn't uncharacteristically miss 6 free throws (10/16).

Those are the 4 losses under his belt.

Doesn't look that bad to me.
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Jason Kidd: "Yes, we are...It's a process..." :-?
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Post#19 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 1:50 pm by NyCeEvO

And do we really want talk about performances in crucial games?

A recent in-state game against HOU, 1/11 from the field (10pts/11rbs).

The Spurs lose by 5 to the Heat in MIA w/o Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, and Green.

They lost to LAC in San Antonio with Duncan going 6/16.

When they played LAC in Clippers, they lost in blowout. In 22 min, Duncan was 3/8 (10pts, 6rbs).


We can sit here and nitpick back and forth. It's just my opinion that the NYK is a better team with Melo right now than SAS is with Duncan right now, and I think Melo is the better player at this point and time.

Things could change for either side, but right now my vote goes to Melo.

Plus, when the stage has been the biggest for Melo, he tends to go off. I can't shrug off 45 against us and 30pts in a half against LA.

But it doesn't mean Duncan is a scrub either. He's having a phenomenal season at 36. It'll be interesting to see how he fairs against KG tonight and against OKC on Monday.
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Post#20 Re: Top 25 Players Pt.II - Who's #4?
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:01 pm by jerseyjac

NyCe, doesn't your vote count?
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