Official Pierce & KG Thread

[MrDollarBills]

Both of these dudes are washed up.

[NyCeEvO]

I don't think they're washed up yet.

As bad as they're playing right now, they're slow starters and I'm not surprised that they're playing the way they're playing right now. I'd expect them to finally hit their stride 25-30 games into the season.

They were brought in to be role players and with Lopez and especially D-Will missing so much time, I don't think it's they're fault for us losing so much.

However, I will say this that KG is done guarding PFs, so whatever you can do try to mask Brook and KG's slowness on the defensive end without killing us must be done.

[FirstBallotKG]

I disagree regarding KG's defense of the power forward spots. Reasons are: the PF position isn't a stacked position in 2013 as it was a decade ago; Garnett is adjusting to Deron Williams & Shaun Livingston's defense to pick-n-rolls despite injuries to that position [PG]; and most importantly, he's playing less than half the game's minutes at 22.5 mpg yet is the only Brooklyn player in the top 40 of rebounds after 11 games.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/playe ... vgRebounds

My contention w the Nets is how they've handled minutes w KG - it's been bizarre, to say the least. I understand the fear of injury given the wear and tear that Garnett has. But they've panicked to the other side of that equation of playing him at minimum minutes, despite being a rhythm player. Garnett at 30min is tremendously more impactful than the 22 min currently given - especially while Deron, Brook & Kirilenko are out of the lineup.

The beginning of the season would be the time that KG could play the longer minutes, yet they've kept him on the sidelines longer than any time on the court. I would love to see just 5 games where Garnett plays 28-32min and see if that helps the team, instead of the 22min. I suspect that it would.

Anyways, I agree that once the rash of injuries comes to an end [hoping that they do at least], that the Nets will play significantly better. Health is always a wildcard in sports, the Nets are dealing w that now, obviously.

[Elements]

I concur with KG05-21: his minute allocation in games is too bizarre in games. I remember when he was on fire in the first five minutes in a 1st quarter and then the coaching staff yanked him out for the rest of the quarter (I don't just blame Kidd). Later he comes in the game shooting the same shots but they miss. You don't pull a player in rhythm unless he's in foul trouble, playing poor defense on his assignment, or is too tired. KG was not doing any of those.

For Pierce, he is shooting at an abysmal rate but I expect that to pick up, as well as playing with Johnson, who is a very similar player.

[MrDollarBills]

I repeat: both of these players are washed up.

[Paradise]

The most ironic and poorly timed commercial of all time

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yUj0Ta44DI[/youtube]

[NyCeEvO]

Celtics fans are probably on to something about KG and Pierce needing more (not fewer minutes):

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/410443223509639168[/tweet]

[Prokorov]

Celtics fans are probably on to something about KG and Pierce needing more (not fewer minutes):

[tweet]https://twitter.com/HowardBeck/status/410443223509639168[/tweet]

For me no way i play them more minutes until they earn them. If you cant give me max or even high effort/energy in 20-25 minutes why in the world would i give you 30-35 minutes?

These guys have been enormous failures from a leadership, effort, defensive, and productivity standpoint. and the first 2, leadership and effort are inexcusable. They arent even outplaying the wallace/evans combo of last year.

i dont care if pierce had a broken hand. no excuse for those 2 to be giving bum derrick coleman like efforts and then making excuses after every game and sulking like girls.

man up.

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

The beginning of the season would be the time that KG could play the longer minutes,

Nothing could be simpler.

[DarkXaero]

Prokorov is drazen4three/petro4three, isn't he?

[exculpatory]

Prokorov is drazen4three/petro4three, isn't he?

Does this guy change accounts on a monthly basis?

[jerseyjac]

Prokorov is drazen4three/petro4three, isn't he?

Does this guy change accounts on a monthly basis?

Hope not, but I do know a #1knickfan that does.

[FirstBallotKG]

The beginning of the season would be the time that KG could play the longer minutes,

Nothing could be simpler.

After Brooklyn's win over the Celts game, I was curious to see KG's minutes. I found that his minutes were around the 26min mark - which seems to be a discernible number from the 22.5 mpg that he's had for much of the season. Then I went to check what is the record of the NETS when Garnett plays 26 minutes or more?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... in-garnett

KG's overall record with Brooklyn is: 7 - 12

However, Brooklyn's record when KG has been in the game for 26 minutes or more, the record is: 5 - 0

Even in games where Garnett has had his minutes at 24 or more, the Nets record is at: 6 - 2

After a quarter of the season played, that's a compelling stat for a team searching for it's identity still.

Glad that Deron was able to return to be the much needed Floor General; Lopez being the dominating offensive presence in the paint; with Pierce adding his toughness and spirit into the mix again. Hopefully, these guys can remain healthy from here on. Additionally, I hope that Coach Kidd will consider KG's minutes and bump them up to the 26min mark. 5-0 is something most coaches would give pause to...food for thought.

[Paradise]

KG is 6th in 1st ballot voting for the East

Sent from my LG-MS770 using Tapatalk

[Prokorov]

The beginning of the season would be the time that KG could play the longer minutes,

Nothing could be simpler.

After Brooklyn's win over the Celts game, I was curious to see KG's minutes. I found that his minutes were around the 26min mark - which seems to be a discernible number from the 22.5 mpg that he's had for much of the season. Then I went to check what is the record of the NETS when Garnett plays 26 minutes or more?

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/gamelog/_ ... in-garnett

KG's overall record with Brooklyn is: 7 - 12

However, Brooklyn's record when KG has been in the game for 26 minutes or more, the record is: 5 - 0

Even in games where Garnett has had his minutes at 24 or more, the Nets record is at: 6 - 2

After a quarter of the season played, that's a compelling stat for a team searching for it's identity still.

Glad that Deron was able to return to be the much needed Floor General; Lopez being the dominating offensive presence in the paint; with Pierce adding his toughness and spirit into the mix again. Hopefully, these guys can remain healthy from here on. Additionally, I hope that Coach Kidd will consider KG's minutes and bump them up to the 26min mark. 5-0 is something most coaches would give pause to...food for thought.

I said this earlier in the year. i dont think you keep KG fresh and healthy by limiting his minutes i think you do it by limiting his games. is 4-5 less minutes a game really doing much? you figure the average starter has 4 shifts in a game. thats like 1:15 seconds extra per shift if he plays those minutes. that isnt going to kill him, and resting him 1:15 seconds earler then normal isnt keeping his legs fresh in may and june. but give him a full night off, on a back to back or after traveling cross country. restriciton his minutes that way has a much bigger differnece.

Id much prefer KG at 28-30 minutes in 65-70 games then KG at 22-25 minutes in 70-75 games

[Prokorov]

KG's overall record with Brooklyn is: 7 - 12

However, Brooklyn's record when KG has been in the game for 26 minutes or more, the record is: 5 - 0

Even in games where Garnett has had his minutes at 24 or more, the Nets record is at: 6 - 2

i think this is deceiving at what you are implying based off it is a bit flawed. (that more KG has meant we are better).

KG has played less minutes in losses because most of those losses have been blowouts or not close games where it is pointless to keep him in the game late. We didnt lose those games because KG didnt play alot, KG didint play alot because we were losing those games by a large margin

[FirstBallotKG]

Well if I didn't complain about KG's minutes - as KG complained about his minutes - early on in the season, you'd might have a better argument. Kevin Garnett is a rhythm player that needs minutes. The time-restraint [of less than half the minutes of a game] placed on him is very unprecedented and unusual. The record when he plays minutes only confirms what I, intuitively, sensed: Brooklyn is in a better chance of winning when he plays 26min or more.

You do realize that achieving 26 minutes for the games already played isn't some marathon/ironman task. Right?

The argument that I've expressed is having simply a small stretch of games [5 games] where he plays regular starters minutes. Then make the adjustments and assessments AFTER having a data sample. Not predicting the future of how KG will perform.

The fact that KG's most minutes played is at 28 reveals that Garnett is NOT allowed to play 30min in any game.

And to specifically address the blowout losses impacting minutes: five games were blowout losses for the Nets where KG played. So if you want to take out those games, that's a record of 7 - 7 when the game was 10 points or less. 7 - 7 when mpg is below 26 minutes compared to 5 - 0 when minutes are 26 and above.

Again, I think most coaches would pay serious attention to that exponential win percentage difference. And I pose this question to you: if X player did Y thing that resulted in 5 - 0 when given Z minutes; then why wouldn't you see if this is correlation or causation?

What benefit is it to the player, the team, the fans and the city of NOT finding out if this is correlation or causation? Is it pride? Is it hubris?

[therealbig3]

Funny story from a little while ago actually: One of the writers on The Brooklyn Game said Garnett fouled a player and sent him to the line, the player missed the first FT, and KG yelled out loud to himself "Good foul Kev!"

That made me LOL. He's intense to the point of crazy, but that's what I've admired about him his entire career. Which is why I was so disappointed he didn't bring that kind of energy more often early on in the season...but better late than never, and he's bringing it now.

[DarkXaero]

Funny story from a little while ago actually: One of the writers on The Brooklyn Game said Garnett fouled a player and sent him to the line, the player missed the first FT, and KG yelled out loud to himself "Good foul Kev!"

That made me LOL. He's intense to the point of crazy, but that's what I've admired about him his entire career. Which is why I was so disappointed he didn't bring that kind of energy more often early on in the season...but better late than never, and he's bringing it now.

Last night during the game, in the second quarter, I think KG picked up his 3rd foul and Kidd was about to bench him but then KG stopped him from benching him. KG's reaction was pretty funny, the commentators didn't pick up on it though and I guess most people didn't.

[Prokorov]

Well if I didn't complain about KG's minutes - as KG complained about his minutes - early on in the season, you'd might have a better argument. Kevin Garnett is a rhythm player that needs minutes. The time-restraint [of less than half the minutes of a game] placed on him is very unprecedented and unusual. The record when he plays minutes only confirms what I, intuitively, sensed: Brooklyn is in a better chance of winning when he plays 26min or more.

I dont disagree he needs to play more minutes. I was just pointing how it is incorrect and extremely mislead to say that his record when he plays bigger minutes confirms we are better when he does so. That stat is extremely skewed by the fact that:

-our losses have been blowouts, and in blowouts he is going to play less since its meanigless to waste him
-our wins, mostly, have been close, and thus he was extended in those games.

we arent losing because he plays less. he plays less because we are losing so much.

And to specifically address the blowout losses impacting minutes: five games were blowout losses for the Nets where KG played. So if you want to take out those games, that's a record of 7 - 7 when the game was 10 points or less. 7 - 7 when mpg is below 26 minutes compared to 5 - 0 when minutes are 26 and above.

how can we be 7-7 when he plays below 26 minutes and 5-0 when he plays 26 minutes or more if we only have 7 or 8 wins total?

After looking it up here is how it breaks down:

In Wins:

26 minutes or more: Memphis, Phoenix(OT)
less then 26 minutes: Clippers, Boston, Milwaukee, Toronto, Utah, Miami

In Losses:

26 minutes or more: cleveland, Indiana
Less then 26 minutes: NY(blowout), denver(blowout), Lakers, Detroit(blowout), Minnesota(blowout), Charlotte, Portland, Sacramento(blowout), Washington, Orlando(blowout)

So thats:

2-2 record when KG plays 26 minutes or more
6-10 record when KG plays less then 26 minutes (6 of those losses blowouts)

so if you remove the blowouts its 2-2 when he plays over 26 minutes and 6-4 when he plays less then 26 minutes. If you want to analyze even further, 8 of those 10 losses came without dwill and/or lopez in the lineup, which is much more likely a cause for us losing those games then how much or how little KG played

I dont see how you can conclude the numbers confirm we are significantly better when he plays more then 26 minutes.