Official D-Will and JJ Thread

Post #1 » by **NyCeEvO** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 1:39 am

I think our backcourt is getting underrated pretty badly around the league.

No, we don't have players which drive to the basket at will and draw a lot of fouls (which I think is the key for contending in the playoffs), but we have two guys who can create their own offense and break down the defense on their own, which is extremely key as well.

While we haven't seen them actually play together yet, I really feel like the whole is better then the sum of the parts regarding our backcourt. It'll be extremely hard for opposing backcourts to beat our backcourt, especially with Deron being a bull of a PG and JJ being 6'8" and a very craft scorer.

I hope we can use this thread to continually analyze the play of D-Will and JJ individually and collectively to monitor how they're playing. For now, we can look at highlights and theoretically assume how well their talents mesh with each other lol.

So for starters....

Here's JJ:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nheRrtNOcnI&feature=related[/youtube]
Video is 4 years old but JJ hasn't lost a bit of his craftiness.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NABojcdl8M4&feature=related[/youtube]
This video gets all facets of JJ's game. In the first quarter and 4OT, we see JJ using his postup game against smaller defenders. The rest of it shows his very good jumper, his crossover, and ability to penetrate.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69vphuw-esU&feature=related[/youtube]
This video is good, especially if you pay attention to how JJ attacks the guys guarding him. He really goes after smaller guys in the post, but if he feels like you can't guard him off the dribble, he will try to find away around you and if he can't do that, then he usually puts together a good array of moves and pump fakes to give him the best shot he can create for himself.

Post #2 » by **NyCeEvO** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 2:07 am

Here's D-Will....btw you can clearly tell he's been holding back these past 1 1/3 seasons with us. These highlights show how D-Will plays when he's motivated, which he will be this season:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LauemEID00&feature=related[/youtube]
All-around masterpiece of a game back in Utah. Although Westbrook is a better player now, I don't know if he could handle this kind of D-Will.

jeff1624 · Post #3 » by **jeff1624** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 2:41 am

NyCeEvO wrote:All-around masterpiece of a game back in Utah. Although Westbrook is a better player now, I don't know if he could handle this kind of D-Will.

Westbrook is a better player? That's news to me.

VCRJKidd15 · Post #4 » by **VCRJKidd15** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 3:00 am

Westbrook better than D-Will?

Jose Calderon is a better PG than Westbrook.

therealbig3 · Post #5 » by **therealbig3** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 11:04 am

It's not exactly that big of a stretch to go with Westbrook over Deron. Criticize Westbrook's tunnel vision and poor shot selection all you want...it's true that it does hold the team back at times. But he's still a damn good player...fantastic at penetrating, getting to the rim, and finishing. One of the best open court players in the league. He's developed into a pretty strong midrange shooter. And he's a good defender.

Basically, his shooting and his crazy athleticism compensates for his low IQ play at times, to the point that he's still a top 5 PG, and comparing two top 5 PGs to each other is never laughable.

But I would still take D-Will. I think D-Will's the 2nd best PG in the league, behind CP3. After him would come Nash, Westbrook, and Rose in some order (Rondo takes Rose's spot if Rose doesn't return to form next year, which is very possible).

As for our backcourt...I agree that the talent we have gets underrated, because JJ is looked at as simply a bad contract and is treated like he's some sort of scrub, when in reality, he's a top 10 SG. Deron isn't even included in some top 5 PG lists anymore, which I think is ridiculous.

But I am wary of the fit. I just hope Avery, JJ, and Deron all realize that JJ has to revert back to playing more off-ball like he did in Phoenix with Nash. I'm fine with giving him some isos, especially since Deron seems to want that, and especially since Deron is a very good off-ball player himself, but the offense should mainly be Deron handling the ball and creating, while JJ moves without the ball and gets himself into position for a pass. I don't want to see a homeless man's version of LeBron/Wade, where both of them are taking turns running the offense. It should run a lot smoother than that.

vincecarter4pres · Post #6 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 11:15 am

Please don't let this become a Westbrook thread...

Post #7 » by **NyCeEvO** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 1:21 pm

EDIT: Oops... :oops:

Post #8 » by **NyCeEvO** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 1:37 pm

therealbig3 wrote:But I am wary of the fit. I just hope Avery, JJ, and Deron all realize that JJ has to revert back to playing more off-ball like he did in Phoenix with Nash. I'm fine with giving him some isos, especially since Deron seems to want that, and especially since Deron is a very good off-ball player himself, but the offense should mainly be Deron handling the ball and creating, while JJ moves without the ball and gets himself into position for a pass. I don't want to see a homeless man's version of LeBron/Wade, where both of them are taking turns running the offense. It should run a lot smoother than that.

TBH, I think you will see them taking turns handling the ball a lot but I think it'll only be when matchups dictate that they should.

For MIA, LBJ and Wade take turns because Wade still wants to feel like he's still a leader of the offense. Once you're relegated to a strictly off the ball player, you're only as good as the guy handling the ball allows you to be.

The thing I like about JJ and D-Will (and you can clearly see this in the videos) is that they are both very good catch and shoot players. If you watch them receiving passes coming off of screens, they take very little time to plant their feet and lift for a jumpshot. And the same thing applies to Tele as well.

But going back to the point about D-Will controlling the ball, I agree that he should control the ball and setup the offense 85% of the time or more (unless JJ has a clearly advantage off-the-dribble).

D-Will has never had an offensive unit this talented and I'm sure he's relishing the opportunity to go out and show that people shouldn't sleep on him anymore. If he plays like he did in Utah, watch out.

I can see it now...running PnR with Lopez while JJ and Tele are on opposite wings and Crash is slashing. We have many options. I hope the Little General sees that and doesn't go ISO-happy like Frank did.

vincecarter4pres · Post #9 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 1:48 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:All-around masterpiece of a game back in Utah. Although Westbrook is a better player now, I don't know if he could handle this kind of D-Will.

Westbrook is a better player? That's news to me.
VCRJKidd15 wrote:Westbrook better than D-Will?

-__- ....smh

Reading comprehension fail for both of you.

I said "Although Westbrook is 'a' better player now", which means the version of Westbrook that plays right now is better than the Westbrook from the past shown in the video. I did not say 'Westbrook is THE better player now'.

There is no phrase of comparison referring to D-Will, so it's pretty obvious that I'm saying that 'even though the Westbrook of now is better than the Westbrook of the past shown in the video, I still don't think the Westbrook of now could handle D-Will at all if he played like he did in the video.'

It's school time...ya'll need to go back.

I thought you meant Westbrook was better then D Will as well. :hoop:

drejeronfire · Post #10 » by **drejeronfire** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 1:52 pm

It's a different backcourt from what most teams are assembling... It's larger and strong as compared to quick and flopperish.

jeff1624 · Post #11 » by **jeff1624** » Sun Sep 2, 2012 1:53 pm

EDIT:

I was thinking about the duos that are clearly above D-Will and Joe right now... I came up with:

Lebron and Wade
Dwight and Kobe
Durant and Westbrook
Paul and Griffin

I think our strength is that we have 3 to 4 players that could be considered top 50 players. Only LA, OKC, SA and Memphis can say the same. It's gonna be really interesting seeing this team now that we'll have the advantage in most match-ups compared to how we've been completely over matched the last few seasons.

Post #12 » by **NyCeEvO** » Mon Sep 3, 2012 1:12 am

jeff1624 wrote:Reading comprehension fail? Maybe you should be more articulate instead of insulting ones intelligence for misunderstanding what you wrote.

Yeah, my bad. What I said was pretty douchey. I had a bad morning but that's no excuse for the insult.

Having time to reflect, I can see what I said being misunderstood. Sorry about that man...

Paradise · Post #13 » by **Paradise** » Mon Sep 3, 2012 1:35 am

I don't think our backcourt is underrated but It's just amazing to see how many idiots are suddenly claiming Deron is overrated and Johnson is old and not great but It's a NY thing, so get used to it. If he ended up in Chicago with Rose or LAC next to Paul, nobody would be saying that.

The thing that will make this backcourt a gift that keeps giving is the simple fact Deron/Johnson much like Melo, Pierce, Kobe, Dirk don't rely on athleticism to maintain their ability to play. Johnson/Deron will always score and be able to play until they are in their upper 30s like Billups, Nash, Kidd, etc. So called basketball "fans" can't tell the difference between a player who can shoot and score without athleticism compared to an athletic guard who will age due to relying on athleticism much like D-Wade compared to a Ray Allen.

Watching Deron/Johnson tear up the East and make people squirm is going to be fun.

mirrornick · Post #14 » by **mirrornick** » Mon Sep 3, 2012 3:43 pm

You guys will be disappointed with Joe Johnson, he regressed very fast these past two years and will continue to decline. Sorry folks, but at least you still got D will!

vincecarter4pres · Post #15 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Sep 3, 2012 5:41 pm

mirrornick wrote:You guys will be disappointed with Joe Johnson, he regressed very fast these past two years and will continue to decline. Sorry folks, but at least you still got D will!

OT, but what team are you a fan of?

vincecarter4pres · Post #16 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Mon Sep 3, 2012 5:42 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:Yeah, my bad. What I said was pretty douchey.

Shocker!

Paradise · Post #17 » by **Paradise** » Mon Sep 3, 2012 8:35 pm

mirrornick wrote:You guys will be disappointed with Joe Johnson, he regressed very fast these past two years and will continue to decline. Sorry folks, but at least you still got D will!

So, we'd be disappointed in a guy who "regressed" but still lead his team to 40 wins, two back to back all-star appearances, still shot 45% in FG, 38% in 3s, 84% in FTs (career best), and averaged 19 points per game last season, up from the previous season. In fact, he must have regressed his entire career because his highest PPG was 21 in 2006 on a bad Hawks team.

His TS% lat season was .557 which is the best TS% he had since 2006. His defensive rating was 105 which means solid defensive efficiency, best defensive rating since his sophomore season in Boston. His career defensive rating average is 110, so he had a better defensive season last year. His offensive rating was 110 which is an increase of his prior 105. His USG% was 24 which is down from 2006, so "Iso Joe" took less possessions with the ball in his hands last season and did I mention his PER increased from a season ago? If, he's regressing due to age then why did he get better at 31 compared to 30 and 29? He was worse defensively, took more USGs, etc.

So, he he totally regressed...into having a productive season. Nice try, If you want we can sit here and talk about Mr. DeRozan who has regressed before he's even scratched the surface.

JMaine518 · Post #18 » by **JMaine518** » Mon Sep 3, 2012 10:16 pm

Paradise wrote:
mirrornick wrote:You guys will be disappointed with Joe Johnson, he regressed very fast these past two years and will continue to decline. Sorry folks, but at least you still got D will!

So, we'd be disappointed in a guy who "regressed" but still lead his team to 40 wins, two back to back all-star appearances, still shot 45% in FG, 38% in 3s, 84% in FTs (career best), and averaged 19 points per game last season, up from the previous season. In fact, he must have regressed his entire career because his highest PPG was 21 in 2006 on a bad Hawks team.

His TS% lat season was .557 which is the best TS% he had since 2006. His defensive rating was 105 which means solid defensive efficiency, best defensive rating since his sophomore season in Boston. His career defensive rating average is 110, so he had a better defensive season last year. His offensive rating was 110 which is an increase of his prior 105. His USG% was 24 which is down from 2006, so "Iso Joe" took less possessions with the ball in his hands last season and did I mention his PER increased from a season ago? If, he's regressing due to age then why did he get better at 31 compared to 30 and 29? He was worse defensively, took more USGs, etc.

So, he he totally regressed...into having a productive season. Nice try, If you want we can sit here and talk about Mr. DeRozan who has regressed before he's even scratched the surface.

Men Lie, Women Lie but NUMBERS DON'T!

mirrornick · Post #19 » by **mirrornick** » Tue Sep 4, 2012 12:21 am

let's talk about the playoffs, the dude just didn't have it in him anymore. he shot 37% FG 25% 3FG

3 rpg and 3 apg all in 40mpg. I know you guys are optimistic, but it's time to face the fact, Joe Johnson will not live up to the hype.

Anyways, If i'm wrong, I will come back to the nets board and personally apologize

mirrornick · Post #20 » by **mirrornick** » Tue Sep 4, 2012 12:23 am

vincecarter4pres wrote:
mirrornick wrote:You guys will be disappointed with Joe Johnson, he regressed very fast these past two years and will continue to decline. Sorry folks, but at least you still got D will!

OT, but what team are you a fan of?

The same team that got destroyed by Nets in the playoffs 06-07.