Official D-Will and JJ Thread

Paradise · Post #181 » by **Paradise** » Sat May 17, 2014 3:04 am

Bone spurs are basically chipped fragments of the bone that pretty much stay in your foot and can cause pain, swelling, soreness and stiffness.

He took those injections for temporary relief but cortisone shots aren't exactly good for you long term.

Unless, the MRI comes back different, the best way to handle it is get surgery and clean out the bone spurs and go from there. It definitely will help with his elevation.

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Post #182 » by **NyCeEvO** » Sat May 17, 2014 10:19 am

Not that I want to trade him after his really good season and his great postseason, but I wonder what JJ's trade value is.

He was always thought of as the "unmovable contract" but with each year that passes by along with the improvement in his play, I can't imagine that he's still an undesirable contract.

Any thoughts?

Prokorov · Post #183 » by **Prokorov** » Sat May 17, 2014 1:12 pm

thebigfour wrote:
Prokorov wrote:I just dont see what "cleaning it up" accomplishes. its not like taking your car to the carwash. if surgery isnt a procedure with a high likelyhood of being a longterm solution, then it really doesnt matter.

im not a doctor, but from what ive read i dont see how surgery is going to really help him by just going in and removing bone spurs. it seems to be a minor non-invase surgery that doesnt have any higher fo a longterm success rate then the platelette treatments or cortizone injections that he tried this year.

Do we really know that surgery would have worked better then the treatments he used instead? i tend to think surgery would have yielded similar results with more time off the court early on.

Again, its not like he had a torn achillies or torn deltoid. he has bone spurs and maybe arthritus and constant swelling. not sure surgery is going to have a great effect then coritzone would.

In 2012 ray allen had bone spurs which he eventually had surgery on. "Allen had indicated after Game 7 that he planned on having surgery soon considering the impact the injury had on his ability to cut throughout the playoffs. Allen was a shooting disaster in the Philadelphia series, even missing free throws, before nailing two huge threes in the fourth quarter of Game 7. Despite hitting some big shots throughout the Eastern Conference Finals, Allen was never the same player.

His decision to get the surgery immediately so he can rehab and get back to his habits speaks to his dedication and work ethic. You will not find a harder worker than Allen." CBS online.

Ray Allen was missing back to back free throws during the playoffs that year. Bone spurs are for real and the pain is an issue. If it helped a much older ray allen to have surgery how much more will it help deron who is younger which will help his recovery.

Im not making excuses for deron but Im just pointing out bone spurs are for real, can be removed and players improve afterwards. Surgery is a much better solution to bone spurs then cortizone shots which only masks the pain temporarily.

Cortizone isnt a pain reliever. its a steroid. it reduces swell and helps build up stability in the area.

Removing bone spurs also reduces swelling, it also is an invasive surgery, where you are removing bone and tissue. this can have long term negative effects, and from what ive read, is also temporary as a fix... while the fix last longer, it also requires a longer rehab.

again, im not saying it wont help, im just saying its not like he tore a ligament, where surgery is the clear option over non-surgical procedures. its bone spurs, and non-surgical treatments work arguably as well or better both short and long term.

Ray allen isnt a great example, i mean from that point on he became a role playing spot up shooter. its not like he went back to the ray allen that was dunking left and right.

im glad if he gets the surgery, even just to try an alternative. but i really dont see why people are getting mad when its documented that the surgical and non-surgical treatments both have similar levels of short and long term effects.

Prokorov · Post #184 » by **Prokorov** » Sat May 17, 2014 1:24 pm

Paradise wrote:Bone spurs are basically chipped fragments of the bone that pretty much stay in your foot and can cause pain, swelling, soreness and stiffness.

That isnt what a bone spur is. a bone spur is an abnormal bone growth on your bone. it is attached to your bone. bone fragments and bone spurs are not the same thing. Usually they are caused near the joints where the tissue is worn away and the joints become bone on bone(arthritic conditions). One of the reasons cortisone works so well, is because it builds mass between the joints, decreasing the amount of friction in the joint.

One of the reasons this treatment is successful, is because often the problem inst the bone spur it self, but the condition that caused the bone spur(bone on bone friction). cortisone (temporarily) alleviates that, as mentioned.

The reason surgery isnt always great for bone spurs, is because it isnt always the bone spur itself that is causing the friction and swelling, as the spur is a result of that friction in the first place.

there are 4 grades of bone spurs, depending on what grade it is, surgery may or may not even be recommended. if its a high grade bone spur, removing it will certainly reduce swelling. however, like cortisone, it is still just treating a symptom and not fixing the root cause. the root cause is that the tissue is worn and there is bone on bone friction, which is somewhat of a longterm issue.

If the bone spur is removed, there will still be bone on bone friction, and a likelyhood that new bone spurs form. and you still need to deal with the bone on bone friction (which may be alleviated to varying degrees by removing the spur).

I'm not a doctor, but I did speak to a friend who was, and looked it up in a medical dictionary. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but there seems to be ALOT of misinformation in this thread about his condition and what exactly the surgery would do.

But it is pretty clear, bone spurs are not fragments or chips. bone spurs are growths cause by friction.

Prokorov · Post #185 » by **Prokorov** » Sat May 17, 2014 1:27 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:Not that I want to trade him after his really good season and his great postseason, but I wonder what JJ's trade value is.

He was always thought of as the "unmovable contract" but with each year that passes by along with the improvement in his play, I can't imagine that he's still an undesirable contract.

Any thoughts?

he is owed 48 million over 2 years. A team would need to think he puts them over the top for a title. At 32 going on 33 that rules out any team thats not already a title contender. so you are basically looking at:

Spurs
Heat
Pacers
Thunder
Clippers

Those teams, all over the cap, would need to match salary. and the only salary those teams have is bad salary and superstar salary. and we arent getting parker/lebron/bosh/durant/westbrook/griffin/paul for johnson.

only other option would be to take someone elses large contract, amare... etc... and of all the non-superstars with 20+ million dollar contracts, joe is the best player.

djsunyc · Post #186 » by **djsunyc** » Thu May 22, 2014 8:22 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KBergCBS/status/469571766034374657[/tweet][/quote]

Prokorov · Post #187 » by **Prokorov** » Thu May 22, 2014 8:25 pm

djsunyc wrote:[tweet]https://twitter.com/KBergCBS/status/469571766034374657[/tweet]

Glad that he did it soon if he was going to do it. I hope the rehab goes well and he doesn't miss much time. I hope this has more of an effect then his other treatment did

Post #188 » by **NyCeEvO** » Thu May 22, 2014 8:28 pm

[tweet]https://twitter.com/NYDNInterNets/status/469572801289273344[/tweet]

MGrand15 · Post #189 » by **MGrand15** » Thu May 22, 2014 9:07 pm

Great sign that surgery is getting done this early. I knew Deron's year was in trouble when he had lingering injuries to START the year. This should at least help him avoid that. They should send him to where ever Steph Curry went.

He wasn't nearly as bad as the clowns in here make him out to be but I hope he can be healthy and bounce back from that 2 month long shooting slump he had to end the year. Whether we keep him or trade him for a bag of chips, I'm sure he'll have a good year.

Post #190 » by **NyCeEvO** » Thu May 22, 2014 9:29 pm

MGrand15 wrote:Great sign that surgery is getting done this early. I knew Deron's year was in trouble when he had lingering injuries to START the year. This should at least help him avoid that. They should send him to where ever Steph Curry went.

He's going to the same Nets "specialist" who dealt with Brook Lopez.

MrDollarBills · Post #191 » by **MrDollarBills** » Thu May 22, 2014 9:30 pm

^^^so I expect that he'll be finished for the season by December when one of these PGs snap his ankles in half

Post #192 » by **NyCeEvO** » Thu May 22, 2014 9:44 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:^^^so I expect that he'll be finished for the season by December when one of these PGs snap his ankles in half

That was kinda the same reaction I had when I read it. Although, Brook needed reconstruction surgery which is more difficult. D-Will needs to have bone chips and spurs removed.

If the doc can't get removing pieces of dislodged and fractured bone right, he needs to be fired immediately.

Keith Van Horn · Post #193 » by **Keith Van Horn** » Thu May 22, 2014 9:55 pm

isn't this what Deron should have done last off season??

Post #194 » by **NyCeEvO** » Thu May 22, 2014 10:26 pm

macgyver893 wrote:isn't this what Deron should have done last off season??

Yup.

That's why I was pretty upset when he said he was just going to rest and rehab it.

Paradise · Post #195 » by **Paradise** » Thu May 22, 2014 10:40 pm

macgyver893 wrote:isn't this what Deron should have done last off season??

Billy King said on November 1st 2012, he was going to need ankle surgury. Deron didn't want to do it.

This is why nobody feels sorry for him. He caused his own problems by being stubborn.

Prokorov · Post #196 » by **Prokorov** » Fri May 23, 2014 4:57 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
macgyver893 wrote:isn't this what Deron should have done last off season??

Yup.

That's why I was pretty upset when he said he was just going to rest and rehab it.

going with treatment over surgery was the correct call... and removing bone spurs isnt a permenent solution either, its a treatment just like cortizone shots. it doesnt cure the root cause, which is worn down tissue causing bone on bone friction(this friction is what causes the bone spurs).

removing the bone spurs can reduce the frictions(and swelling) but does not cure what caused the bone spurs in the first place.

its all treatment and preventative measure. his ankles are just worn down, its something he is going to have to manage the rest of his career. its not like he broke his leg or tore his achilies... and we dont even know what grade the bone spurs were.

Post #197 » by **NyCeEvO** » Tue May 27, 2014 3:24 pm

Today is 'Deron Williams gets a long overdue ankle surgery' day! :clap:

MrDollarBills · Post #198 » by **MrDollarBills** » Tue May 27, 2014 4:23 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:Today is 'Deron Williams gets a long overdue ankle surgery' day!

**** him and his ankles.

While they're at it why don't they check to see if his heart is functioning properly.

Prokorov · Post #199 » by **Prokorov** » Tue May 27, 2014 5:34 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:Today is 'Deron Williams gets a long overdue ankle surgery' day!

im very wary. i know popular opinion is everyone wants him to have the surgery. but i worry about the rehab time, how post surgery rehab will effect his weight, and how effective the surgery will be at all. will it be an improvement of the treatments he had last year?

if he is not playing or limited come nov/december it wont be good

MrDollarBills · Post #200 » by **MrDollarBills** » Tue May 27, 2014 6:38 pm

Prokorov wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:Today is 'Deron Williams gets a long overdue ankle surgery' day!

im very wary. i know popular opinion is everyone wants him to have the surgery. but i worry about the rehab time, how post surgery rehab will effect his weight, and how effective the surgery will be at all. will it be an improvement of the treatments he had last year?

if he is not playing or limited come nov/december it wont be good

It won't be good either way.