Official NBA Game Thread

[Rich Rane]

Damn, how many minutes has Harden played for the Rockets and how much has he scored?

[Keith Van Horn]

There are currently 7 undefeated teams in the league, and guess who is one of them what a great sample size eh?

[jerseyjac]

Lakers lose to Jazz now 1-4...
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/foyes-5-3- ... --nba.html

[jeff1624]

At 11 AM

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
ESPN sources: Mike Brown's job with Lakers would be put in immediate jeopardy without successful homestand.

At 1 PM

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine
RT @ramonashelburne: Lakers have fired Mike Brown. Story TK on ESPNLA com shortly

[Rich Rane]

Man, why can't the Nets work that quickly?

[therealbig3]

The Knicks defense is for real. Never realized just how many strong defensive players they have on the team.

They have probably the best rotation of defensive bigs in the league, with Chandler, Thomas, Camby, and Wallace. They have Kidd and Brewer on the perimeter, and that's only going to get better when Shumpert comes back.

They're more dangerous than I think people here are giving them credit for. Their problem last year was offense, their defense was elite. This year, their defense is even better, and their ball movement is SO much better. They have a 114.3 ORating through 4 games, including against two strong defensive teams in Miami and Philadelphia, and a Mavericks team that isn't too shabby defensively either.

Now, a big part of their offensive success is that their players are unbelievably hot, like unsustainable hot. JR Smith is shooting ridiculously well right now, and he's a very streaky player, so it's only a matter of time when he goes ice cold. Kidd and Brewer are both shooting way above their career averages as well.

But like I said, their defense is elite, and their offense is still good, even if it's not quite this good. They're going to be a really tough team to beat, for anybody.

And btw, this is what I meant when I said Amare getting injured is actually good for the Knicks. Their offense is smoother without him, since he's not nearly the same offensive force as he was in Phoenix and since they don't have to force Melo and Amare together. And he makes the defense a lot worse. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Knicks are really successful for the first 2-3 months of the season, Amare comes back, and all of a sudden, the Knicks start struggling. He just doesn't work with that team, at all.

[therealbig3]

BTW, we should have REALLY tried to go after Camby or Wallace like the Knicks did. Yeah, they're injury-prone/out of shape, but when they play, they are very strong defensive players (even if Camby is overrated). You see how much we're struggling without any sort of defensive presence inside, and you see how dominant the Knicks have looked. It's a really nice luxury to have a rotation of defensive bigs like the Knicks have, just makes it so tough for opposing teams to score.

And then you consider that they were/are thinking about picking up K-Mart too?

[NyCeEvO]

Man, why can't the Nets work that quickly?

Nets...work...quickly....

hmm, I don't ever think I've heard those words in the same sentence in about 10 years, unless used pejoratively.

[NyCeEvO]

And btw, this is what I meant when I said Amare getting injured is actually good for the Knicks. Their offense is smoother without him, since he's not nearly the same offensive force as he was in Phoenix and since they don't have to force Melo and Amare together. And he makes the defense a lot worse. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Knicks are really successful for the first 2-3 months of the season, Amare comes back, and all of a sudden, the Knicks start struggling. He just doesn't work with that team, at all.

I think they're going to slowly work Amare in, but not give him any sort of clear cut 2nd option defined role.

You can win if you have one ballstopper, but who's an elite scorer. You can't do it with two.

If Amare is restricted to being solely a PnR/PnP and putback player, then he'll fit in. They shouldn't do anymore than that.

And...as Paradise and I were saying before, they're very dangerous and have the potential to very good. Novak is just ridiculous from long range and we know that JR gets hot, he gets really hot.

I think the key is also is that they have veterans that Melo is learning from and is being mentored by.

Ironically, the Knicks have a 2011 Mavs model going on, but with better defense. If they're offense can maintain a strong output, I see them meeting the Heat in ECF.

[NyCeEvO]

BTW, we should have REALLY tried to go after Camby or Wallace like the Knicks did. Yeah, they're injury-prone/out of shape, but when they play, they are very strong defensive players (even if Camby is overrated). You see how much we're struggling without any sort of defensive presence inside, and you see how dominant the Knicks have looked. It's a really nice luxury to have a rotation of defensive bigs like the Knicks have, just makes it so tough for opposing teams to score.

And then you consider that they were/are thinking about picking up K-Mart too?

Yeah, I was really hoping they wouldn't pick up K-Mart. That would be absolute mayhem for the opposition.

Imagine, the frontcourt defense of Chandler and Martin.

I can see Lopez getting punked every time he touches the ball lol.

[Paradise]

The thing that JR has really surprised people with is the fact, he's playing great defense, rebounding the ball, becoming a playmaker and taking way better shots. He had a 9 rebound, 4 steals game against the Sixers. He had 4 steals again last night on Mayo, forced Mayo into 7 turnovers along with Kidd.

They face Orlando next, which is an automatic win. So, I don't see the Knicks coming down in the standings anytime soon.

We need to get it together and make a nice run this week to be 2nd in the Division. Orlando, Cleveland, Boston, Sacramento are winnable games.

[Dray-Z]

Thomas can bang in the post but otherwise is a bad defender. Camby has always been overrated as a defender and Rasheed Wallace stopped being a good defender years ago.

The Knicks have a great complementary cast for Carmelo, and their pieces really fit this year, but let's not go overboard... Miami was clearly disinterested and out of sorts vs. the Knicks and the Sixers project to be a pretty bad team this year without Andrew Bynum.

Early season overreaction and small sample size FTW!

(Speaking of overreaction and small sample size, where are the Harden riders at? Can't believe some people I know were claiming he'd easily lead the league in scoring after he carved up two teams with terrible wing players in Detroit and Atlanta... Harden is better than what he's shown these last 3 games, but people really jumped the gun after his first 2 games. )

[therealbig3]

Overrated =/= not good. Camby is a good defender. Chandler is an excellent defender. Kurt Thomas a bad defender? Really? He's been a very good defender his entire career, he hasn't been in the league this long because of his offense. Wallace just knows how to play defense, he's practically been another defensive coach out there for the Knicks. He's just out of shape.

They might be overachieving right now defensively, but it doesn't look like it's all that unsustainable, especially when you consider that as Camby gets healthier and as Wallace gets back into game shape and as Shumpert makes his way back into the lineup, the Knicks defense will get better.

[jeff1624]

People love to s*** on Lopez about his contract, but look at Hibbert. averaging 9 and 7 while shooting under 40% from the field. A PER of 12.6, takes less than two FTA's per game and has an ORTG of 88.

[Dray-Z]

@ therealbig3:
We'll have to agree to disagree on Camby the defensive statistics work in his favor but his actual defensive impact has been overstated his entire career, also while in Denver there were pretty telling quotes by coaches and teammates who talked about how Camby was the kind of idiot who would push teammates out of the way for rebounds, and give the opposing player a wide open lane in hopes of getting a block.

Thomas was a good defender YEARS ago. Outside of the post he's useless at this point in his career. For the most part it's the same thing with Rasheed. People have a tendency to base a player's defensive effectiveness on their past reputation instead of updating their opinions when said player drops off.

It's one of the reasons why many casual fans still claim that Kobe Bryant is an elite defender...

The Knicks defense should be good for as long as Tyson Chandler and Jason Kidd can stay healthy but it's really too early to call them dominant or infer that their defense has been anything close to dominant.

They played a disinterested Heat team, a terrible Sixers team twice, and an average Mavericks team. You need to be very careful with early season statistics when the sample size is as small as it is.

---

@jeff1624:
I'm with you buddy. People like to claim that Brook Lopez is soft, but guys like Roy Hibbert really take the cake when it comes to that designation. People forget that it was Hibbert not Lopez that broke down mentally a little over a year ago and had to seek significant mental counseling because he thought he wasn't good enough to play in the NBA.

Hibbert isn't tough enough physically or mentally to warrant the contract he received.

Also while the sample size is still small Marc Gasol's rebounding has looked like it's regressed from last year. Gasol brings some interesting things to the table but I've always got a chuckle out of people who hype him up as a rebounding dynamo and then shout down Brook Lopez because he's not a great rebounder himself.

[Paradise]

Everytime Miami loses people will say they were disinterested. People can make that claim tonight too. They beat quality playoff teams while still injured. They had the best defensive stats after firing D'antoni and they have th same stats this year. Its no fluke at this point.

Their biggest test will be beating the Spurs on Thursday.

[therealbig3]

Everytime Miami loses people will say they were disinterested. People can make that claim tonight too. They beat quality playoff teams while still injured. They had the best defensive stats after firing D'antoni and they have th same stats this year. Its no fluke at this point.

Their biggest test will be beating the Spurs on Thursday.

It was a good win, but that's the thing with Miami: most likely, they are disinterested when they lose, because they should beat any other team in the league...and when they get blown out by 20+, they definitely are disinterested, because they're too good to lose by that much to anybody unless they're not really trying.

[Paradise]

Everytime Miami loses people will say they were disinterested. People can make that claim tonight too. They beat quality playoff teams while still injured. They had the best defensive stats after firing D'antoni and they have th same stats this year. Its no fluke at this point.

Their biggest test will be beating the Spurs on Thursday.

It was a good win, but that's the thing with Miami: most likely, they are disinterested when they lose, because they should beat any other team in the league...and when they get blown out by 20+, they definitely are disinterested, because they're too good to lose by that much to anybody unless they're not really trying.

They are very good but their weaknesses is playing against good defensive teams and playing against teams with bigs.

Bosh couldn't score against Chandler, Wade has historically struggled against Brewer going back to the Bulls/Heat ECF and penetrating guards like Felton. Rondo creates the defensive breakdown for the Heat.

Then, teams like Memphis can kill them in the paint and outrebound them which is the downfall of small "position less ball".

Playoff wise, it's beyond hard to beat the Heat in a 7 game serious but they are beatable if you pick apart their weakness. They haven't beaten Memphis in 3 years.

[NyCeEvO]

Anyone see that Rudy Gay behind the back crossover and dunk last night? So awesome.

[therealbig3]

Bynum out for 5 more weeks.

Meanwhile, Iggy is playing great, and more importantly, Iggy's playing.