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Official Brook Lopez Thread

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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1881 » by hood30 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:30 am

kamaze wrote:Brook fits the offense now you guys are in a rush to trade him for....If that's the direction Marks wants to go in so be it just sucks that he's finally being utilized and held accountable and he's producing because of it.


Lopez 3ball makes him more valuable, specially to this system since it's unlikely you will find a center that c an shoot 3's and this may become necessary if the plan is to start RHJ at PF......Won't be shocked if Nets decide to keep him and Lopez takes a pay cut to remain a Nets for life...He probably deserve it since he's been a very professional athlete and Nets drafted him.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1882 » by Paradise » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:57 am

kamaze wrote:Brook fits the offense now you guys are in a rush to trade him for....If that's the direction Marks wants to go in so be it just sucks that he's finally being utilized and held accountable and he's producing because of it.

He's producing in a new area of his offensive game. It's no doubt he's turned himself into an elite shooter for a big but his D, rebounding, shot blocking and shot selection has been lackluster. That's the areas that he wouldn't be critiqued for if he tried to seriously improve.

If Brook was a 22/9/2 / 50/40%/80% player. He wouldn't have nearly much criticism. In fact, he would be considered a much better player and centerpiece for teams.

The sad part is he has flirted with those averages throughout his career in multiple ways and has never once put it together. Btw, he averaged 22/9/2 per 36 minutes last season and will seemingly end the season with his lowest rebounding average. We aren't exactly starting Dennis Rodman at PF either.

The ball is truly in his court. You either improve or you go elsewhere and that team likely won't ever give him the shine we do. No matter what type of team he's on even if we turned into a championship contender in 2 Years. He has a lot of areas that hold him back from being a 2nd option on a really good team. That's his fault now. The injuries are not an excuse for him anymore. Kenny and Sean expect him to take a leap forward with everyone else.


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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1883 » by Shark » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:12 am

It'd be interesting if he put in as much effort into developing his defense/rebounding as he has into his 3 pt shooting. I mean in an ideal world that would be what would happen, but I also just don't think he quite has it in him to be great on both ends even if he did spend the time to get better. Then again I never would have though he'd be able to shot the 3 as well as he has at this point of his career.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1884 » by LOUiS-D » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:48 am

Despite the problems it's hard for me not to want Brook to retire a Net. He's not a killer, he's not an alpha dog, but he's still the heart and soul of the team. Loyalty through thick and thin. That's high character to me.

That said, watching Rick Carlisle put Brook in pick and roll no man's land play after play down the stretch was torture.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1885 » by hood30 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:52 am

From what I can see, Lopez biggest problem defending the PnR is the fact that he bends down too much whenever he's faced with the Point-guard coming off the PnR...Instead, I would suggest Brook to make himself taller instead of backing down while bending down...Needs to be more decisive and forge toward the PG with 1 hand above his head and the other by the side to guard against the entry pass.

What happens when he bends down too low, the Poing-Guards are able to easily shoot over him with Lopez being too slow and too low to properly challenge the shot.....For a 7'1 center, I'm always baffled by how easy these PG are able to shoot the floater or jump shot over Lopez with him way too slow to react.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1886 » by kamaze » Thu Mar 23, 2017 5:31 am

Paradise wrote:
kamaze wrote:Brook fits the offense now you guys are in a rush to trade him for....If that's the direction Marks wants to go in so be it just sucks that he's finally being utilized and held accountable and he's producing because of it.


He's producing in a new area of his offensive game. It's no doubt he's turned himself into an elite shooter for a big but his D, rebounding, shot blocking and shot selection has been lackluster. That's the areas that he wouldn't be critiqued for if he tried to seriously improve.

If Brook was a 22/9/2 / 50/40%/80% player. He wouldn't have nearly much criticism. In fact, he would be considered a much better player and centerpiece for teams.

The sad part is he has flirted with those averages throughout his career in multiple ways and has never once put it together. Btw, he averaged 22/9/2 per 36 minutes last season and will seemingly end the season with his lowest rebounding average. We aren't exactly starting Dennis Rodman at PF either.

The ball is truly in his court. You either improve or you go elsewhere and that team likely won't ever give him the shine we do. No matter what type of team he's on even if we turned into a championship contender in 2 Years. He has a lot of areas that hold him back from being a 2nd option on a really good team. That's his fault now. The injuries are not an excuse for him anymore. Kenny and Sean expect him to take a leap forward with everyone else.


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His rebounding has always been bad, and he's always been a finesse player despite his size. He is what he is and that's the best player on this team so again I ask the fans what's the rush to trade him?

Sean Marks is smart to see what the value of every player on the roster is in the trade market that doesn't meen they will.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1887 » by MrDollarBills » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:49 pm

Because unless we outscore teams by a wide margin we will always lose versus good teams because they will just PnR us to death. Lopez can't move his feet on defense to save his life.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1888 » by jbeachboy » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:19 pm

its a shame lopez cant elevate his game on defensive side of ball and rebounding. he seems to focus too much on his offensive game in offseason.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1889 » by kamaze » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:58 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Because unless we outscore teams by a wide margin we will always lose versus good teams because they will just PnR us to death. Lopez can't move his feet on defense to save his life.


That's the team's identity. They'll get better with time a couple of tweeks to improve the defense and get an inside presence to mix it up. The high scoring games are fun to watch.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1890 » by Paradise » Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:22 am

26 Pts, 9 Rebs, 6 Asts, 2 Blks, 10-15 FG / 3-7 3PT in 30 minutes.





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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1891 » by Rainyy » Sun Apr 2, 2017 4:39 am

Another great game from Lopez. Lopez gets no respect, even from Nets fans.

By the description of some posters, you'd think PnR defense was 90% of basketball and Lopez spent every defensive possession playing patty cake with his imaginary Disney friends.

Granted, we didn't play the best offensive teams in the league, but the Brooklyn Nets were 11th in DRTG for the month of March (104.8).

I'm sorry, but even in a small sample, this feat would be impossible if Lopez were as bad as a defender as some make him out to be (and given he played so many minutes this month, anchoring our defense). I actually think this month is an indicator of our future defensive prowess. Our better defenders have become staples of our rotation (LeVert, IW, Lin, RHJ, Acy), Atkinson is figuring out how to coach, and the team is clicking.

One question I have asked is: how many plus defenders have started next to Lopez since the 12-70 season? It's a legitimate question folks need to answer because otherwise you may be implicitily blaming Lopez for his teammates' defensive struggles. Defense is a team concept and if there are 0-1 plus defenders on the team and everyone else is average or worse, there is a zero percent chance that team will be even average defensively, no matter how well Lopez plays. Off the top of my head, the only player I can name is Gerald Wallace. We've always had putrid defensive 4s and wings. Only decent guys we've had are AA, KG, Ak47, and Livingston, none of whom Lopez got significant time with.

I would still call Lopez an "above average" defender overall, despite obvious holes in his game.

I blame hyper-scrutiny when it comes to looking at the PnR for unfair assessments of Lopez. People have an expectation that Lopez is bad at defending the PnR so naturally it is something they focus heavily on. A few problems emerge: (1) confirmation bias; (2) Nirvana fallacy (failure to meet idealized expectations); and related to (2), (3) lack of COMPARATIVE assessment. (3) is most problematic. I think people focus so heavily on Lopez's PnR defense in vacuum, that they lose sight of how it is defended around the league.

In reality, the PnR is really, really hard to defend, and very rarely is it defended perfectly. There is a reason it is the most popular play in the NBA. If I were to scrutinize every other big in the league as closely as some of you scrutinize Lopez, I could point out imperfections in execution in 99% of plays.

News flash: every big cheats off screens. Some teams really practice extreme hedging, but that is a specialized strategy prone to its own vulnerabilities. I've watched games where you guys are ripping on Lopez for not attacking the screen, when Marc Gasol is literally doing the exact same thing on every other possession. You're holding Lopez to an impossible standard.

Seriously, try it some time. I challenge you all to choose opposing bigs the remainder of the year and just watch how they play defense every possession. I guarantee you can find fault in them on the majority of possessions, simply because big men are so involved in possessions. Prok was talking about Noel the other day and I scrutinized him like you guys do Lopez. If he were on our team, you would have been hammering him every play.

This herein is the problem with analyzing defense. The defensive metrics aren't very good so we are left with anecdotal evidence, which introduces a ton of biases.
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Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1892 » by Paradise » Sun Apr 2, 2017 5:44 am



He's getting his credit by bringing consistency to the table. His improved offense helps his defensive limitations but let's be real. It's still a big hole in his game that has got to be addressed if he wants a long term future here but aside from the obvious, Lin returning. It seems Brook has really bought in hard to Sean Marks' culture change.

Nobody dislikes him. We all want to see him succeed but he simply hasn't been good and consistent in other areas enough to warrant immediate faith.


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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1893 » by Rainyy » Sun Apr 2, 2017 7:13 am

Paradise wrote:
He's getting his credit by bringing consistency to the table. His improved offense helps his defensive limitations but let's be real. It's still a big hole in his game that has got to be addressed if he wants a long term future here but aside from the obvious, Lin returning. It seems Brook has really bought in hard to Sean Marks' culture change.


His offense really isn't that different in terms of overall impact, although the floor spacing versatility is nice.

This forum has never really understood how previous coaches/GMs set Lopez up for failure. This is the first year in his career Lopez is actually playing with floor-spacers. That's probably accounted for an increased usage rate, despite having no point guard for the entire year.

Lopez's production ceiling is much. much higher than people give him credit for.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1894 » by kamaze » Sun Apr 2, 2017 1:08 pm

He's having the best year of his career, instead of forcing up shots he's encouraged to shoot the 3 and make quick decisions. Like it's said above the coaching staff is utilizing his skills better than anyone has.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1895 » by shakendfries » Sun Apr 2, 2017 4:22 pm

At this point, I'm over the Lopez argument. Talented scorer? Definitely. But his limitations mitigate his overall impact.

He is a 7ft man who refuses to rebound & is PnRed to death by opposing guards every time a game is close.

His defensive limitations means the Nets cannot feasibly construct a good defensive team around his skill. If Thad Young + Brook's start to last season in which they were the highest scoring frontcourt in the NBA proved anything, its that ultimately one month of basketball means nothing.

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Remember when Kevin Love was balling in Minnesota, and people were arguing whether he was just a good stats bad team player? Brook Lopez in Brooklyn virtually the same as Kevin Love in Minnesota.

If Love was on the Nets, would he be putting up much better numbers than he is now in Cleveland? Probably, but its doubtful that the team would be anywhere closer to being playoff caliber
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1896 » by kamaze » Sun Apr 2, 2017 7:48 pm

Paradise wrote:

He's getting his credit by bringing consistency to the table. His improved offense helps his defensive limitations but let's be real. It's still a big hole in his game that has got to be addressed if he wants a long term future here but aside from the obvious, Lin returning. It seems Brook has really bought in hard to Sean Marks' culture change.

Nobody dislikes him. We all want to see him succeed but he simply hasn't been good and consistent in other areas enough to warrant immediate faith.


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He's a great scorer and gets some blocks he'll always be under average in rebounding and defending. Do other teams scrutinize their players as much as Net fans do? doubt it.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1897 » by Prokorov » Sun Apr 2, 2017 9:40 pm

kamaze wrote:
Paradise wrote:

He's getting his credit by bringing consistency to the table. His improved offense helps his defensive limitations but let's be real. It's still a big hole in his game that has got to be addressed if he wants a long term future here but aside from the obvious, Lin returning. It seems Brook has really bought in hard to Sean Marks' culture change.

Nobody dislikes him. We all want to see him succeed but he simply hasn't been good and consistent in other areas enough to warrant immediate faith.


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He's a great scorer and gets some blocks he'll always be under average in rebounding and defending. Do other teams scrutinize their players as much as Net fans do? doubt it.



he is not a great scorer... great scorers put up 24-30 ppg. not 19-20 ppg. great scorers do it consistently, not inconsistenty.

his rebounding is worse then "below average" and his defense is arguably as well.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1898 » by kamaze » Sun Apr 2, 2017 11:18 pm

Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
Paradise wrote:

He's getting his credit by bringing consistency to the table. His improved offense helps his defensive limitations but let's be real. It's still a big hole in his game that has got to be addressed if he wants a long term future here but aside from the obvious, Lin returning. It seems Brook has really bought in hard to Sean Marks' culture change.

Nobody dislikes him. We all want to see him succeed but he simply hasn't been good and consistent in other areas enough to warrant immediate faith.


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He's a great scorer and gets some blocks he'll always be under average in rebounding and defending. Do other teams scrutinize their players as much as Net fans do? doubt it.



he is not a great scorer... great scorers put up 24-30 ppg. not 19-20 ppg. great scorers do it consistently, not inconsistenty.

his rebounding is worse then "below average" and his defense is arguably as well.


Yeah everyone knows you don't like him from the Brook Lopez becomes the leader in field goals thread. You also said "trade him for 40 cents on the dollar". :roll: That's not how you treat your players and expect to win, with that attitude the Nets don't deserve nice things.

He's one of the best this franchise has ever had not some overpaid scrub like Andrew Nicholson.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1899 » by Prokorov » Sun Apr 2, 2017 11:25 pm

kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
He's a great scorer and gets some blocks he'll always be under average in rebounding and defending. Do other teams scrutinize their players as much as Net fans do? doubt it.



he is not a great scorer... great scorers put up 24-30 ppg. not 19-20 ppg. great scorers do it consistently, not inconsistenty.

his rebounding is worse then "below average" and his defense is arguably as well.


Yeah everyone knows you don't like him from the Brook Lopez becomes the leader in field goals thread. You also said "trade him for 40 cents on the dollar". :roll: That's not how you treat your players and expect to win, with that attitude the Nets don't deserve nice things.

He's one of the best this franchise has ever had not some overpaid scrub like Andrew Nicholson.


what part of my post did you disagree with... or is this just a tangent attack on me because you differ on how you feel about lopez?

"trading for him for 40 cents on the dollar" you are taking out of context... its that, let him walk for nothing, or extend him on a huge deal. none of those 3 are good options. trading him for whatever you can get is a reality at this point.

"one of the best in franchise history" is true... but its a sad i history void of great players. and few who played here longer then 5-7 seasons. its not like je is one of the best in laker or celtic history where its saying something.

you know how many hall of famers the nets have?

-Julius irving, who wasnt only a net in the ABA
-Drazn petrovic, who only played for us for 2 seasons and got in mostly based on his time in europe.
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Re: Official Brook Lopez Thread 

Post#1900 » by kamaze » Mon Apr 3, 2017 12:03 am

Prokorov wrote:
kamaze wrote:
Prokorov wrote:

he is not a great scorer... great scorers put up 24-30 ppg. not 19-20 ppg. great scorers do it consistently, not inconsistenty.

his rebounding is worse then "below average" and his defense is arguably as well.


Yeah everyone knows you don't like him from the Brook Lopez becomes the leader in field goals thread. You also said "trade him for 40 cents on the dollar". :roll: That's not how you treat your players and expect to win, with that attitude the Nets don't deserve nice things.

He's one of the best this franchise has ever had not some overpaid scrub like Andrew Nicholson.


what part of my post did you disagree with... or is this just a tangent attack on me because you differ on how you feel about lopez?

"trading for him for 40 cents on the dollar" you are taking out of context... its that, let him walk for nothing, or extend him on a huge deal. none of those 3 are good options. trading him for whatever you can get is a reality at this point.


I'm telling you what I disagree with try to keep up.

What makes you think they'd have to sign him to a big extension? He's shown he's a loyal person, Billy King gave him that contract there's a better GM in place of him now.
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