Around the League, 2013 Offseason/2013-14 Season Thread

[jeff1624]

If I had to pick a DPOY, it's Noah or Duncan for me. Definitely not Hibbert.

But Hibbert's probably going to win it though.

I would too, but Deandre Jordan?? That's just ridiculous.

[therealbig3]

If I had to pick a DPOY, it's Noah or Duncan for me. Definitely not Hibbert.

But Hibbert's probably going to win it though.

I would too, but Deandre Jordan?? That's just ridiculous.

Agreed, I actually think Deandre has improved, but not close to DPOY level.

[Prokorov]

Give me a break. Those are stats for the entire season, not a 5 game stretch. On and off paints a pretty decent picture of how good a team is with/without a certain player.

It has nothing to do with sample size... on/off is just a horrible indicator of individual performance. For one, its influenced(both good and bad) by the other 4 guys you are on the floor with, and it doesnt take into account who comes off the floor with you and who comes on the floor for you and anyone else who subbed out when you did...

I think we can all agree that reggie evans is an awful offensive player. yet if you look at his on/off stats last year we got alot worse when he went to the bench. why? because he played 90% of his minutes with brook, dwill and JJ, and when he came off so did most of those guys and the guys coming in mostly stunk offensively.

On/Off for 5 man units is a ton better, because then everyones play is accounted for. but for individuals its really one of the worst ways to measure a player

And Jordan doesn't even pass the eye test either. He always gets eaten up by opposing centers.

Just because a guy is athletic and rebounds a lot doesn't make a good defensive player. He's trash on that end.

There's no guy here that has criticized Hibbert more than I have these past 4 years, but he's a MUCH better defender. He's an important part of a team ranked 1st in defensive rating for the entire season.

Jordanhas had defensive issues in the past but Doc has really turned a corner with him. he isnt elite by any stretch but niether is hibbert. there is no way hibbert is "much better" then him.

[Paradise]

If I had to pick a DPOY, it's Noah or Duncan for me. Definitely not Hibbert.

But Hibbert's probably going to win it though.

I would too, but Deandre Jordan?? That's just ridiculous.

He is a much better defender under Doc, though. His shot blocking is underrated and even though, his defensive numbers aren't that staggering he has career highs in DWS and DRtg of 98.

[jeff1624]

If I had to pick a DPOY, it's Noah or Duncan for me. Definitely not Hibbert.

But Hibbert's probably going to win it though.

I would too, but Deandre Jordan?? That's just ridiculous.

He is a much better defender under Doc, though. His shot blocking is underrated and even though, his defensive numbers aren't that staggering he has career highs in DWS and DRtg of 98.

Carlos boozer has the exact same defensive rating.

While Jordan has improved his defense, he still isn't a good defender. He still bites at every pump fake and gets lost on that end way too much for him to be considered a good defender. He certainly isn't an anchor, which I think you have to be to win DPOY.

[Prokorov]

I would too, but Deandre Jordan?? That's just ridiculous.

He is a much better defender under Doc, though. His shot blocking is underrated and even though, his defensive numbers aren't that staggering he has career highs in DWS and DRtg of 98.

Carlos boozer has the exact same defensive rating.

While Jordan has improved his defense, he still isn't a good defender. He still bites at every pump fake and gets lost on that end way too much for him to be considered a good defender. He certainly isn't an anchor, which I think you have to be to win DPOY.

He also has nearly the same defensive rating(98) as joakim Noah(96) and has a better defenive rating then marc( gasol (103), dwight howard(107), and anthony davis(104). Defensive Rating is not a great stat for measuring individuals. it is too reliant on the other 9 players on the floor, which is far from constant, even in huge samples.


who is saying Jordan should win DPOY? im just saying he is a good defender who is as good or better then hibbert. Jordan has been really good, he isnt elite but he really dos a good job in all phases of team defense. he isnt just a shot blocker. i think he should be MIP for how far he has come on that end. also, they play at such a high up and down pace... he doesnt have the benefit of playing games in the 80s and 90s like hibbert where you arent running up and down the court a ton

[jeff1624]

He also has nearly the same defensive rating(98) as joakim Noah(96) and has a better defenive rating then marc( gasol (103), dwight howard(107), and anthony davis(104). Defensive Rating is not a great stat for measuring individuals. it is too reliant on the other 9 players on the floor, which is far from constant, even in huge samples.

Which was my point when I mentioned Carlos Boozer. And before you say that I use raw def rtg to prove my point on a lot of things, I don't. I use Def rtg in on/off situations which paints a much better picture of a players defensive ability. Carlos Boozer's on and off numbers disprove the notion that he's a good defender despite his 98 def rtg.

who is saying Jordan should win DPOY? im just saying he is a good defender who is as good or better then hibbert. Jordan has been really good, he isnt elite but he really dos a good job in all phases of team defense. he isnt just a shot blocker. i think he should be MIP for how far he has come on that end. also, they play at such a high up and down pace... he doesnt have the benefit of playing games in the 80s and 90s like hibbert where you arent running up and down the court a ton

Roy Hibbert at halftime - 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0-5 FG. Benched in the 2nd quarter.

It will be a travesty if he wins DPOY over Noah or Jordan.

And no, he isn't a better defender than Hibbert.

[Prokorov]

Which was my point when I mentioned Carlos Boozer. And before you say that I use raw def rtg to prove my point on a lot of things, I don't. I use Def rtg in on/off situations which paints a much better picture of a players defensive ability. Carlos Boozer's on and off numbers disprove the notion that he's a good defender despite his 98 def rtg.

on/off numbers are a team stat and a extremely poor way to measure individual performance.

Roy Hibbert at halftime - 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0-5 FG. Benched in the 2nd quarter.

It will be a travesty if he wins DPOY over Noah or Jordan.

And no, he isn't a better defender than Hibbert.[/quote]

that was paradise who said that, not me.

and hibbert isnt a better defender then him either. they are on the same level, just in different situations. id give the slight nod to jordan but thats splittng hairs

[jeff1624]

that was paradise who said that, not me.

and hibbert isnt a better defender then him either. they are on the same level, just in different situations. id give the slight nod to jordan but thats splittng hairs

Didn't say it was... You asked "who mentioned Jordan as a DPOY" and I told you.

And there is no evidence that proves Jordan is a better defender, while there's plenty pointing into the other direction.

[Prokorov]

that was paradise who said that, not me.

and hibbert isnt a better defender then him either. they are on the same level, just in different situations. id give the slight nod to jordan but thats splittng hairs

Didn't say it was... You asked "who mentioned Jordan as a DPOY" and I told you.

And there is no evidence that proves Jordan is a better defender, while there's plenty pointing into the other direction.

fair enough on the DPOY

disagree immensly on the evidence part. the evidence only points to indiana being the better defensive team. the individual numbers are pretty even. Defensive rating, defensive win shares.

stuff like on/off is a team stat with tons of variables and only 1 constant. it is really an awful indicator for anything but evaluating a specific 5 man unit

[Prokorov]

atlanta down 6 to detroit at the half... hope they can pull that one out somehow

[Prokorov]

10-0 run by the hawks. hawks lead

[Prokorov]

lol...celtics trolling the knicks allowing a 19-3 run down the stretch

[therealbig3]

Magic number for the Hawks is 2 now. If we tank Friday's game against them, and the Raptors beat the Knicks, it's over.

But I hope the Knicks beat the Raptors and lose to the Bulls. The Bulls taking the 3 seed would be huge for us.

[NyCeEvO]

I like Memphis but I hope they blow it up cuz I'd love to have a true defensive wing stopper (i.e. Tony Allen) on this team.

[NyCeEvO]

Conley is killing it!

[NyCeEvO]

I feel sorry for LeBron a bit. Dude is clearly gassed.

If they don't win it this year, you know he's going to be thinking about whether he wants to put up with this kind of workload for the rest of his career.

[therealbig3]

Good, Miami about to lose, and the Pacers won.

Ideally, I'd want Chicago at #3 and Indiana at #1, while NY misses the playoffs. That way, if we can take out Toronto in the 4-5 matchup, we'd get the Pacers instead of the Heat in round 2. And I'd feel pretty confident in that series to be perfectly honest.

Rooting for Indiana on Friday.

[NyCeEvO]

You know if LBJ came to the Nets, he wouldn't have to worry about fatigue.

Kidd will make sure he doesn't play more than 30mpg.

[therealbig3]

Griffin's a beast. He should be mentioned a lot more when people discuss the "other" MVP candidates. In fact, he'd probably be 3rd on my MVP list.