andresb wrote:therealbig3 wrote:He reminds me a lot of Kenyon Martin.
K-Mart was better defensively, but Plumlee is better offensively. Both of them play that athletic finisher role that thrives off good guard play, and bring a lot of energy.
They really are not much alike. I love Plumlee and unlike others I wanted us to draft him, but Martin was the more complete & vastly superior player, he even became an All-Star in his prime, a ceiling like that is out of reach for Plumlee, IMO. Martin was much better defensively, not just better. He was one of the top and most versatile defensive players in the league. There were a lot of nights where he would guard perimeter players by design. His defensive IQ and awareness were off the charts. I once saw him vehemently tell 4-time defensive player of the year Dikembe Mutombo where to be on a defensive possession. George Karl called him the quarterback of the Nuggets' defense. IMO Martin's biggest asset was his defensive game. You can't compare him to a player who's a below average defender like Plumlee. Kid's got a long ways to go on that end of the floor. Also, while Plumlee brings a big deal of energy, K-Mart's energy went beyond just playing hard, he also was the team's emotional leader, like Frank said. And how's Plumlee the better offensive player? He shoots a higher percentage because all of his attempts are literally at the rim and spoon-fed. Martin was far from a finesse player, but he had an offensive game aside from dunking and just merely finishing assisted baskets at the rim. He developed a decent jumper, could put the ball on the floor and attack the basket, and, while his back to the basket game wasn't very refined and he was by no means a go-to low-post scorer, you could throw the ball to thim downlow from time to time and he would do something positive here & there, nothing to write home about, but better than nothing. I don't see the comparison.
I 100% agree about his defense, which is why I don't think Plumlee is all that close as an overall player...his athleticism, his chemistry with the team's guards, and the energy he brings compared to everyone else is what reminds me of K-Mart.
I disagree about Martin's offense, dude was pretty inefficient in his prime, despite mainly playing around the rim and playing with a great PG like Kidd. I don't think his back to the basket game was effective at all, and his jumper wasn't very good either. He TRIED to do a lot of things that Plumlee doesn't, but that doesn't mean he should have. Both of them are/were good at one thing: finishing at the rim. Plumlee sticks to only doing that, Martin didn't. I guess you could also argue that he was forced to, because we didn't have a lot of offensive talent on those teams, but it's those things he was forced to do that allowed him to put up the points and be an All-Star, even though he was probably better served just doing what Plumlee does. I think part of what makes Plumlee good is because he knows his limits on offense, he doesn't try to do things that he would be inefficient at.
IMO, if you're a big man who doesn't really have much skill on offense (I just don't think Martin was good enough to really be a "do it yourself" option on offense), I think the best way to contribute on offense is to be like Tyson Chandler, or on the flip side, be like an older KG or Duncan...they really aren't used as self-creators either at this point. They pass the ball well and they shoot the midrange J, and KG can't really do it anymore, but Duncan is also used as a finisher around the rim. You contribute in ways where you don't need the ball at all unless it's to finish a play, and I think Plumlee already does that almost as well as anyone. Tyson Chandler, imo, is one of the best offensive bigs in the game, no joke. It's insanely valuable to have a big that doesn't demand the ball at all, is a fantastic above the rim finisher, sets screens, makes passes, and crashes the offensive glass and retains possessions. He's not a guy who can create anything with the ball in his hands, but he's elite without it.
