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Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm

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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#141 » by Paradise » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:27 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
Paradise wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
To me, every loss is defense related if you can't get STOPS.

We got stops and couldn't score, so...

The reality is this is never going to be some elite defensive team. Our base case scenario is middle of the pack. Our offense and shooting is where we have to hang our hat on.


Then the season is already over.

It's fine with me, I just didn't want to be the one to call it like it is first.

Lol Based on what? We've been 18th and 19th in defense for two years now. That's exactly where we rank right now.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#142 » by jeff1624 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:43 am

MrDollarBills wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:0-3 Since Joe demonstrated dat leadership.


And I'm sure that has everything to do with it, and nothing about the level of competition that johnson warned the team about.



We've had two of our most frustrating losses in the last three games. We have a 20 point lead versus phoenix, that should have been a win. Golden state is a juggernaut so I wasn't expecting a win, but i sure as hell was expecting one versus a Blazers team missing Aldridge and Batum. We've been s****ier than ever offensively since Joe decided to call the team out despite the fact that we were rolling on that end of the floor. So yeah, I'm gonna continue pointing out our record since Joe's idiotic rant.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#143 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:00 pm

We were rolling because we didn't play anyone worth a damn. Now we have and we got stomped 3 games in a row.

Twitter rants aren't the reason why the team can't play defense or hit shots.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#144 » by kerry kittles » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:16 pm

jeff1624 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:0-3 Since Joe demonstrated dat leadership.


And I'm sure that has everything to do with it, and nothing about the level of competition that johnson warned the team about.



We've had two of our most frustrating losses in the last three games. We have a 20 point lead versus phoenix, that should have been a win. Golden state is a juggernaut so I wasn't expecting a win, but i sure as hell was expecting one versus a Blazers team missing Aldridge and Batum. We've been s****ier than ever offensively since Joe decided to call the team out despite the fact that we were rolling on that end of the floor. So yeah, I'm gonna continue pointing out our record since Joe's idiotic rant.


4 teams we've beat are a combined 12-29. We also lost to the 2-7 twolves and the 3-5 celtics. We're just not that good and would've gone 0-3 on this road trip had Joe not said a word.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#145 » by Paradise » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:37 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:We were rolling because we didn't play anyone worth a damn. Now we have and we got stomped 3 games in a row.

Twitter rants aren't the reason why the team can't play defense or hit shots.

Is that why we built significant leads on Phoenix and Golden State? The level of compeition isn't why we lost.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#146 » by vincecarter4pres » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:43 pm

I just typed up a wall of text post on my phone and the app crashed. This app sucks.

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Rich Rane wrote:I think we're all missing the point here. vc4pres needs to stop watching games.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#147 » by Keith Van Horn » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:30 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:I just typed up a wall of text post on my phone and the app crashed. This app sucks.

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i would and 1 this but I'm also using the app so I can't. This app sucks


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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#148 » by Prokorov » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:42 pm

jeff1624 wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:
jeff1624 wrote:0-3 Since Joe demonstrated dat leadership.


And I'm sure that has everything to do with it, and nothing about the level of competition that johnson warned the team about.



We've had two of our most frustrating losses in the last three games. We have a 20 point lead versus phoenix, that should have been a win. Golden state is a juggernaut so I wasn't expecting a win, but i sure as hell was expecting one versus a Blazers team missing Aldridge and Batum. We've been s****ier than ever offensively since Joe decided to call the team out despite the fact that we were rolling on that end of the floor. So yeah, I'm gonna continue pointing out our record since Joe's idiotic rant.


was our offense any worse recently then it was early on? i feel like its just as crappy. our offense was really bad vs boston, minny, magic... plus we are facing better teams now
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#149 » by Prokorov » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:43 pm

Paradise wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:We were rolling because we didn't play anyone worth a damn. Now we have and we got stomped 3 games in a row.

Twitter rants aren't the reason why the team can't play defense or hit shots.

Is that why we built significant leads on Phoenix and Golden State? The level of compeition isn't why we lost.


sure it is... you think the pistons or durantless/westbrookless thunder are coming back from being down 20?
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#150 » by Paradise » Sun Nov 16, 2014 5:52 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Paradise wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:We were rolling because we didn't play anyone worth a damn. Now we have and we got stomped 3 games in a row.

Twitter rants aren't the reason why the team can't play defense or hit shots.

Is that why we built significant leads on Phoenix and Golden State? The level of compeition isn't why we lost.


sure it is... you think the pistons or durantless/westbrookless thunder are coming back from being down 20?

If it was strictly due to the competition, we would have never been up 20 in the first place. We would be trailing from the get go. So, that's a terrible argument.

Our losses are from a product of lazy inexcusable habits like careless shots and TOs leading to uncontested fastbreak points and poor defensive rebounds.

Go up by 12 in GS. Turn it over three straight times leading to 9 straight GS fastbreak points. You blow leads that easily on the road doing dumb crap like that.

Everyone knows in order to beat explosive offensive teams, you limit them to one shot. We gave up second chance points, gave them live-ball turnovers to convert into layups and uncontested threes. Any team can erase a lead when you do that crap.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#151 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:27 pm

Paradise wrote:
MrDollarBills wrote:We were rolling because we didn't play anyone worth a damn. Now we have and we got stomped 3 games in a row.

Twitter rants aren't the reason why the team can't play defense or hit shots.

Is that why we built significant leads on Phoenix and Golden State? The level of compeition isn't why we lost.


What does that have to do with anything? Good teams make runs and come back from deficits, bad ones don't. Hence, why we are now below .500
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#152 » by MrDollarBills » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:29 pm

Saying we lost due to playing better competition is a lot easier to swallow than saying that we're losing due to a rant on twitter.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#153 » by Paradise » Sun Nov 16, 2014 6:46 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:Saying we lost due to playing better competition is a lot easier to swallow than saying that we're losing due to a rant on twitter.

The reality is his comments disrupted chemistry in the locker room before a road trip. It was a distraction and he should have said it better in hindsight.

Nobody is saying losing to better teams isn't a reason for this bad road trip but the fact is KG and Hollins said his comments should've been kept 'internally' means they did not like it. Starting a road trip with controversy is a recipe for failure.

Deron and Bojan were extremely aggressive in previous games until his comments. Against Phoenix, both were incredibly passive even when given open looks. Why? Because everyone was afraid of looking "selfish".

So, his comments did affect the team and obviously, Joe has played horribly since then which makes makes him look like a complete idiot. The competition is a huge factor but that doesn't excuse the fact these were winnable games against weak defenses.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#154 » by jbeachboy » Sun Nov 16, 2014 7:35 pm

I think joe johnson should have not went public and address it privately, the defense is concerning, offense will come around but lazy defense and missed rotations is concerning, hopefully its early struggles to new system
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#155 » by NyCeEvO » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:02 pm

Just finished watching the game.

IMO this game is perfect summary of who we are as a team. Under normal circumstances, we simply don't have enough to hang with the legit contenders.

We can look for as many excuses as we want but I don't think we loss this game because the players are still reeling from JJ's comments. We won games at the start of the season in good fashion partly due to the level of competition we were playing against and partly due to pretty hot shooting.

Now, we're missing a lot of 3s and don't have the defense to stop the opposition.

The Blazers were missing Aldridge and Batum and there was never a point throughout the game where I felt like they were really going to lose the lead. This was a wire-to-wire loss that proved that we just don't have it. This game looked like we lost simply due to the fact that 1-15, we don't have more overall talent and we definitely don't have the defensive personnel to really make some noise.

You can't pin this loss on one particular player for playing poorly.


But here are some bigger questions that Billy King should really be thinking about....

If when we can't beat the good teams at our healthiest level, how should we approach this season and the next 2 years off free agency (since we're trying to put ourselves in position to have a great team after the '16 offseason)?

- If we're really trying to create a team that wins now and thus becomes a more appealing destination for FAs, we need to have a team that has one identity.

Brook Lopez is a great player and Plumlee is a good asset, but Brook has been getting benched at the end of most of our games for a multitude of reasons and Mason (IMO) doesn't fit the identity of Hollins' system.

If one of our top 3 players can't help us closeout games on a regular basis, his impact on the floor better extremely high so that we're usually in a position to blowout teams or you have to seriously question whether what he brings to the table is best for this team.

We need all of our top players out there at the most crucial times of the game, and if we have to bench a max contract guy (Lopez) for a guy making the MMLE (Mirza) just because of defensive mobility, we need to really sit back and think about whether we're getting maximum yield for our investment in Lopez.

I'd consider trading him for a player who better fits our identity and our defensive needs even if that player doesn't have as much individual talent as Lopez, since that player's impact on our team identity could have a greater impact than Lopez does.

As I've stated before, I simply don't think Plumlee fits the identity of Hollins system and if we're set on keeping Hollins, I'd trade Plumlee while some GMs think he should be having a breakout year. The longer we wait and the more he continues to play like crap under Hollins, the more his value decreases.

Overall, I think our big men situation is what is going to do us in. We don't have the lateral quickness on our defensive rotations. Usually, by the 2nd or 3rd pick below the foul line, the opposition has a guy that's wide open for a layup and we can't stop them.

While KG has the proper defensive techniques, he no longer has the athleticism to rotate fast enough. Lopez is simply too slow to stop it and Plumlee doesn't know wth is going on.

Good interior defense + good offense from our wings would be enough to be win on most nights and could produce a high 40s/low 50s win team. But without interior defense, I see this team maxing out at low 40s simply because we can't stop anyone.

Last year, we had more overall talent in Pierce, Livingston, and Blatche so often times we could win on talent alone even though we knew it wouldn't amount to much in the playoffs. Stripping this team of the extra talent means that we have to really optimize our lineup in order to play at a very high level.

If we don't make changes, you better get used to short winning streaks because we just don't have the firepower.

A quick aside: Look at the Warriors and the Blazers...these teams are really deep and yet we still have a higher payroll than them and every other team in the league. If only we had a GM who could maximize on our talent-to-dollar ratio....
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#156 » by 720 » Sun Nov 16, 2014 8:24 pm

From an outside point of view I don't know why JJ would make that public? It wasn't like they were playing horrible. If i''m not mistaken the Nets had a winning record, so it is super puzzling with the timing of that comment.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#157 » by jbeachboy » Sun Nov 16, 2014 10:07 pm

Team is mentally soft if words affects your play, no one will trade you much for either lopez or plumlee, might as well play out their contracts instead of trading for low value or nothing worth in return, we need to get younger and more athletic in draft and free agency or trades and more defensive minded players
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#158 » by Paradise » Sun Nov 16, 2014 11:22 pm

jbeachboy wrote:Team is mentally soft if words affects your play, no one will trade you much for either lopez or plumlee, might as well play out their contracts instead of trading for low value or nothing worth in return, we need to get younger and more athletic in draft and free agency or trades and more defensive minded players

Lopez and Plumlee would definitely get suitors. Chances are we end up taking on long term salary if we have to move either one.
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#159 » by jbeachboy » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:53 am

Whats point of taking lon.g term salary for guys you dont want long term? Might as well let contract run out
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Re: Game Thread: Nets @ Trail Blazers - 11/15/14 10:00pm 

Post#160 » by Paradise » Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:29 am

jbeachboy wrote:Whats point of taking lon.g term salary for guys you dont want long term? Might as well let contract run out

Exactly. All we can do is hope Brook gets better as the season continues because he looks abuslotely lost out there.

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