Game 2 PG: The 100 million dollar scrub leads us to an 0-2 hole

[MaxZaslofskyJr]

Effective role players contribute a constant to the team whether it's defense, rebounding, 3-pt shooting or whatever. Needing to be propped up by other players is the antithesis of being a role player and is putting the cart before the horse. Makes no sense.

[Hello Brooklyn]

I know Ive been saying this for 3 years, but Deron Williams has actually ruined this franchise. When he first came here, I thought the worst case scenario wouldn't even be close to this. You can blame King and Hollins for a lot of the problems with this team. But you cant blame them for D-Will playing like a scrub.

2 points? I mean actually. This guy is getting paid 22 mil a year and he puts up 2 points in the biggest game of the season. Against a bunch of nobody point guards. Its sickening.

[Prokorov]

Mason Plumlee is a role player. So, he needs to be the right guy for the players he's playing around. If he can't find a way to do that, what good is he?

what role player at C is going to excel next to chuckers like jack/bogs/clark?

even lopez in that role wasnt playing well

plumlee looked 4 or 5 times better playing with the starting unit averaging like 14/9 with excellent efficiency.

When he was averaging like 17/10 it was with Jack, Kerasev, Joe, KG starting. He looks like crap with Jack or Joe on the floor.

The reality is he completely gave up after Brook took back his starting role and ran away with it. His defense is worse, his rebounding is worse, his finishing is pathetic and his FT shooting went down after he damn near outplayed Cousins and had like 7 made FTs at one point in a game.

If that's his attitude then he needs to go. I really like him as a personality and thought he could be a big bright spot going forward but he's reverting into the same crap we're deal with from Deron and it's not acceptable.

this just isnt accurate. his effort is at the same level it has always been. as is his defense and activity. he simply isnt playing with as many quality players around him.

more knee jerk reactions.

its irrelevant either way. if you can get a first you move him. if you cant you dont. there is no reason to move him just to move him.

[Paradise]

The funny thing about Deron is if he actually was average on a regular basis we would've been perceived as dark house contenders. We've been the lower seed the last 2 seasons and managed to make the higher seed look beatable.

These first two games are a microcosm of the reality of this team. We COULD be in the mix of the 2nd tier teams such as Washington, Chicago, Milwaukee but we are essentially being held back by ONE person. Even Hollins I thought coached well and made good adjustments by focusing on Carroll more than Korver.

I expect a bounce back game from Thad. I expect Brook to show up. I expect Joe to play well in spurts but the reality is 20/10 from Deron is what separate us from Atlanta or any other LeBron-less team in a series.

I think yesterday was a much more embarrassing performance than his 0 point performance last May considering the circumstances.

[Zachbretton]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/591333256865296384[/tweet]

My salt is SO HIGH RIGHT NOW! The possession that lost us the game...

This only increases my anger with the game, but raises my hope that we can win a game or two. That was our game to win

[Shook Jones]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/TimBontemps/status/591333256865296384[/tweet]

My salt is SO HIGH RIGHT NOW! The possession that lost us the game...

This only increases my anger with the game, but raises my hope that we can win a game or two. That was our game to win

Everyone knew that wasnt a foul even Millsap. If Joe had kept playing I think ref would have swallowed the whistle. Sucks that the NBA acknowledges this. Jack was wide open for a layup which would have put us up 1 with 20secs to go.

Terrible way to lose.

[MrDollarBills]

The funny thing about Deron is if he actually was average on a regular basis we would've been perceived as dark house contenders. We've been the lower seed the last 2 seasons and managed to make the higher seed look beatable.

These first two games are a microcosm of the reality of this team. We COULD be in the mix of the 2nd tier teams such as Washington, Chicago, Milwaukee but we are essentially being held back by ONE person. Even Hollins I thought coached well and made good adjustments by focusing on Carroll more than Korver.

I expect a bounce back game from Thad. I expect Brook to show up. I expect Joe to play well in spurts but the reality is 20/10 from Deron is what separate us from Atlanta or any other LeBron-less team in a series.

I think yesterday was a much more embarrassing performance than his 0 point performance last May considering the circumstances.

Yeah, even if he had two average games that would have been enough to put us over the hump...in two straight games against Atlanta, one of the league's top teams. That is what is pissing me off about this. We weren't even outclassed, we lost because basically D-Will has decided to not bring his A game.

Thad's game yesterday was an anomaly. He usually doesn't look that bad. He just got schooled, it happens.

[CalamityX12]

Were the refs awful towards us???

[MirzaIsGod]

Were the refs awful towards us???

Easy yes

The ref gave us some favorable calls in the first quarter and the crowd turned on them pretty loudly, which then was compensated by the hawks getting all the calls in the 2nd half. Dwill and the refs lost us that game

[MGrand15]

That call on Millsap was BEYOND awful. We had a fastbreak. No one touched him. Terrible call at a crucial part of the game. They called it on Joe Johnson too - who wasn't even contesting the shot. Makes me sick.

[kerry kittles]

The funny thing about Deron is if he actually was average on a regular basis we would've been perceived as dark house contenders. We've been the lower seed the last 2 seasons and managed to make the higher seed look beatable.

These first two games are a microcosm of the reality of this team. We COULD be in the mix of the 2nd tier teams such as Washington, Chicago, Milwaukee but we are essentially being held back by ONE person. Even Hollins I thought coached well and made good adjustments by focusing on Carroll more than Korver.

I expect a bounce back game from Thad. I expect Brook to show up. I expect Joe to play well in spurts but the reality is 20/10 from Deron is what separate us from Atlanta or any other LeBron-less team in a series.

I think yesterday was a much more embarrassing performance than his 0 point performance last May considering the circumstances.

It pissed me off the most last year. I believe we had a great team and the thing holding us back from being true contenders was Deron Williams play.
We beat every playoff team out West besides Portland. Were 4-0 against the Heat in the regular season. So far this playoffs, we were position to steal both these games from the Hawks and have led less than 6 minutes so far this series.
Last year against the Heat:
Game 2: The 0/9 0 point infamous game we also had a chance to steal, albeit less of a chance. cut the lead to 2 with just under 7 minutes left. Never got too close after that and lost by 12, but damn if we got something from Deron.

Game 3: we blew them out

Game 4: game was tied with under a minute left and Bosh hit that dagger 3. DWill finished 5/14 from the field.

Game 5: we led that game by 8 with under 3 minutes to go, Deron had a good game, but not a great game like Joe did in that one.

Games 4-5 we could've won. we were in better position than either of these Hawks games. And who knows about game 2 if Deron doesn't go for 0/9.

I think we had a chance to give the Heat the type of fight the Pacers gave them the year before. That pissed me off the most because we went all in last year, his 2nd half of the season the year before gave some optimism as to what we may expect to see. This year I came in with little to no expectations for Deron and the team - thought there was a good chance we could miss the playoffs, didn't think Deron was a better than an average point guard. Last year was worse for me just because of the expectations, everything we gave up, and despite the injuries early on, losing Brook we played some great basketball the 2nd of the year. If we just had the Deron we traded for that team could've been something special.

[isekii]

Besides Buck, A-train Every Williams we had on the Nets have been horrendous.

Sean, Marcus, Terrance, Deron, Jayson, Sheldon I mean WTF

We need a petition

Jayson Williams wasn't horrible.

As a human being yes he was. Everyone of them have issues.

[MrDollarBills]

Oh, I thought you meant on court.

[isekii]

Oh, I thought you meant on court.

Sorry meant both On and off.

I really hope we tie this series up. We had our chances in games 1 and 2 so it's possible i think.

[MrDollarBills]

Williams was a double double machine for a few years before he decided to blow someone's head off.

[SpeedyG]

he just doesnt have the right guys around him.

Mason Plumlee is a role player. So, he needs to be the right guy for the players he's playing around. If he can't find a way to do that, what good is he?

what role player at C is going to excel next to chuckers like jack/bogs/clark?

even lopez in that role wasnt playing well

plumlee looked 4 or 5 times better playing with the starting unit averaging like 14/9 with excellent efficiency.

Tyson Chandler?

[Prokorov]

Mason Plumlee is a role player. So, he needs to be the right guy for the players he's playing around. If he can't find a way to do that, what good is he?

what role player at C is going to excel next to chuckers like jack/bogs/clark?

even lopez in that role wasnt playing well

plumlee looked 4 or 5 times better playing with the starting unit averaging like 14/9 with excellent efficiency.

Tyson Chandler?

tyson chandler isnt a role player. that dude was DPOTY.

[SpeedyG]

what role player at C is going to excel next to chuckers like jack/bogs/clark?

even lopez in that role wasnt playing well

plumlee looked 4 or 5 times better playing with the starting unit averaging like 14/9 with excellent efficiency.

Tyson Chandler?

tyson chandler isnt a role player. that dude was DPOTY.

But all I heard from some on this board is how Plumlee has Chandler potential?

[NyCeEvO]

Tyson Chandler?

tyson chandler isnt a role player. that dude was DPOTY.

But all I heard from some on this board is how Plumlee has Chandler potential?

A couple of things.

1) Tyson Chandler IS a role player right now and for most of his career he's been a role player. He had 1.5-2 seasons of elite interior defense and was a legit force on defense during the DAL championship run and his first year with the Knicks.

Prior to that time, he was a good shotblocker but wasn't that good at interior defense. Since then, he's been too injured and has clearly lost a step so he's no longer able to anchor a defense effectively.

2) Saying that Plumlee had/has Chandler potential (I think I said Chandler-lite) means that if all things worked out, he has the tools to play like Chandler.

He's certainly athletic enough but the reason why it's potential is because we all realized that he needed to improve massively in order to play like Chandler. He's got stone hands, forces postups too much, is a horrendous free throw shooter, and has terrible BBIQ. I was hoping to see steady improvement from him but he hasn't improved one bit since the day he was drafted.

Plumlee is only effective offensively when you run a mid/uptempo offense that gets into 1-5 PnRs really quickly and Plumlee is allowed to dive straight to the basket. When he was playing well in the middle of the season, this is what we did. Unfortunately for him, teams adjust and had a defender keep a foot in the paint and so he no longer was able to run unimpeded to the basket. Since he's not good at anything else but catching alley-oops, he's basically useless out there. (We also don't have the shooters to keep the defense honest and force their defenders to stay out of the paint and glued to their man.)

While I do believe he has the physical tools to play like Chandler did, he has so much to go in the IQ area that I don't think he'll ever reach it. Just because you have the potential doesn't mean you're definitely going to reach it.

Personally, I'd prefer to trade him and coup something of value for him because it's quite clear that as long as we don't have really good shooters and/or we don't spam PnR with him, he doesn't bring anything of value to the team.

Some may still believe he's a prospect with untapped potential that's just waiting to come out. I think he's got a 90% chance to stay exactly the way he is for the rest of his career and a 10% chance to actually improve and become a pretty good player.

[SpeedyG]

tyson chandler isnt a role player. that dude was DPOTY.

But all I heard from some on this board is how Plumlee has Chandler potential?

A couple of things.

1) Tyson Chandler IS a role player right now and for most of his career he's been a role player. He had 1.5-2 seasons of elite interior defense and was a legit force on defense during the DAL championship run and his first year with the Knicks.

Prior to that time, he was a good shotblocker but wasn't that good at interior defense. Since then, he's been too injured and has clearly lost a step so he's no longer able to anchor a defense effectively.

2) Saying that Plumlee had/has Chandler potential (I think I said Chandler-lite) means that if all things worked out, he has the tools to play like Chandler.

He's certainly athletic enough but the reason why it's potential is because we all realized that he needed to improve massively in order to play like Chandler. He's got stone hands, forces postups too much, is a horrendous free throw shooter, and has terrible BBIQ. I was hoping to see steady improvement from him but he hasn't improved one bit since the day he was drafted.

Plumlee is only effective offensively when you run a mid/uptempo offense that gets into 1-5 PnRs really quickly and Plumlee is allowed to dive straight to the basket. When he was playing well in the middle of the season, this is what we did. Unfortunately for him, teams adjust and had a defender keep a foot in the paint and so he no longer was able to run unimpeded to the basket. Since he's not good at anything else but catching alley-oops, he's basically useless out there. (We also don't have the shooters to keep the defense honest and force their defenders to stay out of the paint and glued to their man.)

While I do believe he has the physical tools to play like Chandler did, he has so much to go in the IQ area that I don't think he'll ever reach it. Just because you have the potential doesn't mean you're definitely going to reach it.

Personally, I'd prefer to trade him and coup something of value for him because it's quite clear that as long as we don't have really good shooters and/or we don't spam PnR with him, he doesn't bring anything of value to the team.

Some may still believe he's a prospect with untapped potential that's just waiting to come out. I think he's got a 90% chance to stay exactly the way he is for the rest of his career and a 10% chance to actually improve and become a pretty good player.

It was more a tongue-in-cheek comment. I actually agree with you that Mason is not likely to suddenly shoot up and reach Chandler-level defense/rebounding.

The point I was really getting at, is that guys like Chandler contribute, if not thrive when they are surrounded by scorers. Because in doing so, their lack of offensive game is not counted upon and they can just do what they do best: defend, rebound, run.

That Plumlee is surrounded by "chuckers" shouldn't affect his game at all.