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The Official Lin Net Thread II

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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1341 » by Prokorov » Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:52 pm

Packers+NetsWIN wrote:
You are correct in your classification. But to truly find out whether someone is great at something you would have to take way too many things into account to truly arrive at the number. Injuries, starters getting rested, the players fit into their coach's schemes, players being pulled because its a blow-out, trades, player additions or subtractions through free agency during the season. They are countless factors and that is why the only fair way to do it is to include. There are professional basketball players who obviously have the talent to contribute to a team but may not be given the chance to any number of circumstances.


Its not that hard. we have decades of basketball to know what a great scorer is. We understand that not all 450 NBA players are big minute high volume scorers. and no one ive ever talked to, listened to, see on tv, or read things being 29th in the league at something is "great". typically top 8-12 is consider "great" (although some years scoring is up or down and that changes). 22-24 ppg is usually what makes you a great scorer. beyond that an elite scorer.


Take your example of cook - last season he played for a new team, with new coaches, schemes, qb, and he missed half the season with injury. Is it fair to say he did not play great last year? I dont think it is because after adjusting to the new system and getting over the injury, he was productive. In three playoff games, two of which were blowouts, he has 229 yards and 2 tds.


Exactly, yet by your classification cook was great last year because he was in the top 10% among NFL players in receiving.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1342 » by Packers+NetsWIN » Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:39 pm

Prokorov wrote:
Packers+NetsWIN wrote:
You are correct in your classification. But to truly find out whether someone is great at something you would have to take way too many things into account to truly arrive at the number. Injuries, starters getting rested, the players fit into their coach's schemes, players being pulled because its a blow-out, trades, player additions or subtractions through free agency during the season. They are countless factors and that is why the only fair way to do it is to include. There are professional basketball players who obviously have the talent to contribute to a team but may not be given the chance to any number of circumstances.


Its not that hard. we have decades of basketball to know what a great scorer is. We understand that not all 450 NBA players are big minute high volume scorers. and no one ive ever talked to, listened to, see on tv, or read things being 29th in the league at something is "great". typically top 8-12 is consider "great" (although some years scoring is up or down and that changes). 22-24 ppg is usually what makes you a great scorer. beyond that an elite scorer.


Take your example of cook - last season he played for a new team, with new coaches, schemes, qb, and he missed half the season with injury. Is it fair to say he did not play great last year? I dont think it is because after adjusting to the new system and getting over the injury, he was productive. In three playoff games, two of which were blowouts, he has 229 yards and 2 tds.


Exactly, yet by your classification cook was great last year because he was in the top 10% among NFL players in receiving.


Basketball was a completely different game 30 years ago, 20 years ago, and even 10 years ago. The only way to compare players fairly is to other players who play by the same league rules, have the same refs, and in the same era of similar schemes.

I mean the old days where they let them play more aggressive like the bad boy Detroit pistons. Teams would be shooting 50 free throws a game against them. And I personally think players like shaq would be nearly effective as he was through his career is he had to play his career starting today.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1343 » by Vae Victus » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:40 pm

I can see Lin and BroLo after both having good seasons and either making strong push into or sneaking into the playoffs both be willing to take discounts on their next deals to stay together.

If Lin goes Linsanity mode after a healthy year 20/8/4/1 and BroLo posts one of his best scoring and most efficient seasons (in large part cuz Lin is beasting), i can see both players willing reup at 18 mil per each a year. Rather than chasing playoff teams and starting roles, which will be hard for either player, and rebuilding teams prolly not interested due to developing their own on the cheap, i can see these 2 guys coming back on a discount due to the excellent culture Markinson is building, ala Spurs.

Ideally of course the team also signs Otto Porter and/or trade for wing help (Crabbe?) and maybe a starting PF option. If theyre gonna make a real chance at chasing the playoffs.

The issue then becomes does the team want to go that way with the C position? Or do they wanna go new age with a pure defensive anchor who's primary job is to set bone crushing screens and rim run. Same question at PG, do they wanna go through similar growing pains as IW, cuz its not like theyre drafing a top pick PG to hand the reins off to.

I can see retaining Lin being much more attractive as he has all the qualities one wants in a PG, although he's getting a bit old, which might not be a terrible thing as in a coupla years he can hand off the reins to the next generation of Nets and slide to SG or bench in his final year (age 32). Whereas with BroLo his defensive limitations are clear, despite his offensive impact. Reupping these two guys caps your ceiling as it eats up 2 starting spots its prevents a drafted rising PG/C from emerging easily. Payroll rise ~18 mil for a starter is pretty standard.

Is the team comfortable with just blowing it all up in 2019 now that they have their own picks back? Technically it might be the smart move if the team whiffs hard on FA again this offseason. Let both Lin and BroLo go, or trade em at the deadline to contenders. Lin will be much easier to move due to his smaller deal and overall game as he can be a huge weapon off the bench or plug and play starting combo. BroLo otoh has big contract and i have a hard time seeing a contender being able to eat his deal without sending back alot of bad long term money.

I feel this off-season will determine the path they will go. With both Lin/BroLo, small steps from Levert/IW/Dim/Harris/RHJ/Acy, even with zero impact signings i can def still see this team win 32+ games, pretty much my same prediction of last year. The internal growth and hard work of this squad will see massive improvement record wise, health permitting.

If the team truly wants to move on with a clean cap, they wont trade BroLo and let him expire. If the team doesnt mind having an anchor deal for a coupla yers, they'll trade BroLo for Mozgov/Noah/Plumlee + picks. Of that group Mozgov is the most attractive imo. Lin might as well be kept around to mentor the kids and helpt them grow, whether they intend to bring him back or not, unless some time is wiling to off a nice pick for him (#10-15) which i dont see happening as the only squads that would be interested would be PO bound and their picks will be 20+ for all intents and purposes.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1344 » by 2k15 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:53 pm

I don't get the trade Lin discussion. He has a player-option after 17-18 and there is a 10% trade kicker. So he won't be moved unless its for a great offer, but why would anyone give up anything of value for what is at most a 1-year rental?
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1345 » by bws94 » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:11 pm

@vae, imo, there is no long-term Linsanity mode. Linsanity, by definition, was a short-term mode he went into for a few weeks. It was Lin playing for his NBA life, so he pulled out all of the stops and was under the best circumstances to do so because Anthony got injured.

Today's Lin, imo, is not jumping up to 20 PPG for the year from 14.5. In the full Linsanity season, which was Lin playing for a few months, he didn't average 20. He came down to earth. There may be periods he averages 20, probably a few games or even weeks, but for the full year, something more realistic, imo, is 16 to maybe, just maybe, 17 PPG. The assists, may also be spread out. As we can see in the playoffs, winning doesn't come down to mere stats. Westbrook is putting up big stats but is he winning? Some good stats are necessary, but for Lin to organize team wins in the starting PG role, I don't think he needs to go Linsanity mode for a season. He just needs to go Linsanity mode when it is needed, and other times whoever has it going, help create shots and circumstances for them.

CP3 is 31. Lowry is 31, Dragic is 30. Westbrook is 28 and so is Stef. The PGs are all in their primes now or just a tiny bit past them. Lin is going to be 29 when the season starts and for the whole season. He has more good years in him and Lin himself is figuring out a game of less drives and more in-between shots. The only thing now is, he's adjusting to being a full-time starting PG and not the combo 6th/man role he played previous years.

As for Lopez, he may not be in the Nets plans as long as Lin if Lin pans out and is an essential ingredient in organizing the team as well as that ingredient in bringing wins.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1346 » by MrDollarBills » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:16 am

16ppg 7apg is a more realistic achievement for Lin.

His scoring average is irrelevant to me. Is he knocking down the deep ball? Forcing TOs on D? Getting to the line? Moving the ball? Those are what the concerns are for Lin. I saw enough from him this season to know that those aren't concerns at all, that's what we'll get from him.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1347 » by Vae Victus » Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:30 am

Lin can totally score 20 pts a game if he continues to look for his own shot, slightly improves his outside shooting some more, AND regains his old explosiveness which was robbed by injury.

Yea he "only" scored 14.5 pts a game last year, but that was in 24.5 mins and a good chunk of those mins are with playing while limted by injury. Give him a full bill of healthy and minor improvements in his game and he'll get u those 20 pts.

Now if the team signs not only Porter/Hill AND Milsap, ok yea, then he aint gonna hit 20, more likely 16-17 (assuming 32 mins, full health, yada yada), as he'll be focusing more on distributing the rock and picking and choosing his spots. Now he'll get those 16-17 on few shots and HIGH efficiency as there will be other threats to pull attention off him andl et him get more easy buckets.

We hardly saw the best Lin can do over an extended period of time here. Those damned hammy injuries completely robbed him and us fans this year of seeing what he can do.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1348 » by TinmanZBoy » Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:02 am

damn, the reason that Lin is not a good dribbler is because he does carry the ball like what other "good dribblers" do
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1349 » by PG13 » Fri May 5, 2017 7:59 pm

So...Lin hired a sleeping coach during the season, knowing how important proper rest is. Remember that time he tweeted about being at a boxing match the night before a game and injured his ankle during that game? Some dude here argued that Lin was a grown ass man and didn't need sleep - Lin knew better than that.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1350 » by Prokorov » Sat May 6, 2017 1:33 pm

PG13 wrote:So...Lin hired a sleeping coach during the season, knowing how important proper rest is. Remember that time he tweeted about being at a boxing match the night before a game and injured his ankle during that game? Some dude here argued that Lin was a grown ass man and didn't need sleep - Lin knew better than that.



This is what separates guys like Lin from guys like lopez. Lin will do whatever it takes to be the best player he can be... he is driven to be great and driven to win. And he will not just put in the required work, but go above and beyond that. thats why he went from undrafted to starter, to super sub to now starter again and hopefully he can become a fringe all-star or all-star with more work.

Lopez will do just what is required and not more. if they ask to do something, he will do it. work on extending his range? sure he will practice threes. but he isnt driven to be great and he isnt driven by winning and basketball isnt his big passion in life... comics and writing are... Which is why in 10 years he is basically the same player he has always been... a 19/7 type guy who struggles defensively and on the glass who is wildly inconsistent with flashes but not sustained levels of all star play. i know he shot threes this year, but he always shot alot of long jumpers at a high rate. he hasnt really expanded his game other then kenny telling himt o turn those long twos into threes.

I can only imagine the heights this team would go if the other 14 guys were as committed and driven as lin is. some of the young guys have that drive. hopefully we can find a young center in the draft who has it as well.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1351 » by kamaze » Sat May 6, 2017 4:50 pm

I can see Dinwiddie starting with Lin next year and them drafting a point guard to come off the bench. Tedosic is a dream he wants to play for a competitive team.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1352 » by DeRoma » Sat May 6, 2017 4:58 pm

kamaze wrote:I can see Dinwiddie starting with Lin next year and them drafting a point guard to come off the bench. Tedosic is a dream he wants to play for a competitive team.

Marks already mentioned that he wants LeVert to be the SG
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1353 » by kamaze » Sat May 6, 2017 5:04 pm

DeRoma wrote:
kamaze wrote:I can see Dinwiddie starting with Lin next year and them drafting a point guard to come off the bench. Tedosic is a dream he wants to play for a competitive team.

Marks already mentioned that he wants LeVert to be the SG


Forgot about that Lin & Levert in the back court then who starts at small forward? Porter? maybe they have someone else in mind.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1354 » by Prokorov » Sat May 6, 2017 8:17 pm

kamaze wrote:
DeRoma wrote:
kamaze wrote:I can see Dinwiddie starting with Lin next year and them drafting a point guard to come off the bench. Tedosic is a dream he wants to play for a competitive team.

Marks already mentioned that he wants LeVert to be the SG


Forgot about that Lin & Levert in the back court then who starts at small forward? Porter? maybe they have someone else in mind.


i dont think it matters if levert plays SG or SF... our other starter likely isnt on the team yet
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Re: Try to rank starting PGs on the defensive end by multiple advanced metrics 

Post#1355 » by Lorenzomax7 » Mon May 8, 2017 8:43 am

New method, new ranking.

I did the offensive part too ..but I am not gonna share it right now cuz it would be better for me to explain it in a better way by more structured graphics and/or charts.

#FINAL update: 5/21/2017 5:00 AM

INT-R: Intangibles rating accounting...

a, at rim protection
b, adjusted blocks
c, charges taken

Spoiler:
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Re: Try to rank starting PGs on the defensive end by multiple advanced metrics 

Post#1356 » by MrDollarBills » Mon May 8, 2017 10:39 am

Actually, to confirm this list's authenticity, I took a look at who is at the bottom.

It checks out
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Re: Try to rank starting PGs on the defensive end by multiple advanced metrics 

Post#1357 » by Lorenzomax7 » Mon May 8, 2017 2:08 pm

Suddenly I got a new idea of judging the defensive fouls... so I will probably renew the ranking again. lol, I just found out that Rose is ridiculous "high" considering him being a poor defender through many fans' eye tests. And the problem is that I valued lower frequency of fouling higher than the the average and common frequency.


I will just edit the post above later.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1358 » by hood30 » Tue May 9, 2017 10:44 pm

bws94 wrote:@vae, imo, there is no long-term Linsanity mode. Linsanity, by definition, was a short-term mode he went into for a few weeks. It was Lin playing for his NBA life, so he pulled out all of the stops and was under the best circumstances to do so because Anthony got injured.

Today's Lin, imo, is not jumping up to 20 PPG for the year from 14.5. In the full Linsanity season, which was Lin playing for a few months, he didn't average 20. He came down to earth. There may be periods he averages 20, probably a few games or even weeks, but for the full year, something more realistic, imo, is 16 to maybe, just maybe, 17 PPG. The assists, may also be spread out. As we can see in the playoffs, winning doesn't come down to mere stats. Westbrook is putting up big stats but is he winning? Some good stats are necessary, but for Lin to organize team wins in the starting PG role, I don't think he needs to go Linsanity mode for a season. He just needs to go Linsanity mode when it is needed, and other times whoever has it going, help create shots and circumstances for them.

CP3 is 31. Lowry is 31, Dragic is 30. Westbrook is 28 and so is Stef. The PGs are all in their primes now or just a tiny bit past them. Lin is going to be 29 when the season starts and for the whole season. He has more good years in him and Lin himself is figuring out a game of less drives and more in-between shots. The only thing now is, he's adjusting to being a full-time starting PG and not the combo 6th/man role he played previous years.

As for Lopez, he may not be in the Nets plans as long as Lin if Lin pans out and is an essential ingredient in organizing the team as well as that ingredient in bringing wins.


Lin averaged 14.5ppg under 24 minutes, so it's not farfetch to see him get close to 20ppg under 32mpg...I do think Linsanity is less possible under a strict motion offense, but I do believe Lin could do it under D'Antoni's offense while dominating the ball like Harden...Of course, Lin would not put up Harden's stats but 20ppg and 8 assist would be very realistic in Houston...

The reason Lin came down to earth during his Knicks Linsanity days is simply because Carmelo refused to allow D'Antoni to run his system through Lin and wanted to be the focus of the offense when he got back from injury....For the system to work, Melo had to move to PF and Stoudemire had to go on the bench but both refused and this played a part in Lin coming back to earth.
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1359 » by kamaze » Wed May 10, 2017 4:34 pm

Randy Foye has a podcast where he'll be talking to Jeremy Lin! Comes on today subscribe to listen.

Randy Foye‏Verified account @randyfoye 55m55 minutes ago
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Are YOU ready to be #inspired? #DownloadNOW & Listen to @jlin7 on #OUTSIDESHOT. Share. Subscribe. Retweet https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/id1223802374?mt=2&ls=1 … pic.twitter.com/uSUnvR5Cgt
Randy Foye, Jeremy Lin, J. Ivy and 3 others
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Re: The Official Lin Net Thread II 

Post#1360 » by kamaze » Wed May 10, 2017 4:38 pm

Randy Foye‏Verified account @randyfoye 1d1 day ago
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Later this wk, @JLin7 shares w/ me some of the #racism he heard while playing in college. Unfortunately #AdamJones incident is too common.

Jeremy Lin on Outside Shot: "Did You Get Any Racial Slurs..."
Coming this wk on Outside Shot w/ Randy Foye, Jeremy Lin. SUBSCRIBE & LISTEN to a clip about the #racism Jeremy heard at road games in college #outsideshot #tuesdaythoughts #AdamJones #love


If you go to Randy Foye's twitter he shows a piece of the interview
https://twitter.com/randyfoye
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