GT: Memphis Grizzlies @ Barclays Center - Monday, 2/13/17 7:30pm

[MrDollarBills]

I was keeping track via phone... thought the comedy was hilarious once again... somewhere mid 3rd, I saw Brook with 3 rebs thus far...

2 mins left in game(my next check in), Brook remains at 3 rebounds for the game...

LOL

Why do people care so much about individual rebounding totals? Especially in this game, it just makes so little sense.

Memphis had 5 offensive rebounds tonight. Five. That's not very many. On only ONE of those five rebounds did Lopez have any culpability, and while he made a mistake on that one (feet glued to the floor), Booker and (arguably) Kilpatrick were more at fault for misreading the long rebound.

When we are drilling a player for being PARTIALLY responsible for a SINGLE EXTRA POSSESSION for the other team, then you know that criticism is disproportionate - individual rebounding continues to be the most overrated and misunderstood area of basketball.

Just as a reminder, we are seeing an NBA-low in Offensive Rebounding Rate across the league. This has been a continuing trend in recent years. More and more teams are forgoing offensive rebounds at the benefit of getting back on defense and/or providing floor spacing for the offense. The corollary of this is that a higher and higher share of defensive rebounds are being UNCONTESTED. Rebounding has never been this unimportant.

If you are making fun of Lopez for his rebounding, at least int his game, you are basically faulting him for not grabbing meaningless rebounds. Or perhaps for not taking rebounds that his teammates grabbed instead. It's a largely aesthetic criticism and isn't too much different from bashing a player because he is ugly.

As long as the other team isn't getting extra possessions (and those extra possessions that happen aren't Lopez's fault), I could not care less how many boards Lopez grabs.

All this said, rebounding has been a problem with Lopez this year - moreso than it has since maybe his Sophomore season. But this seems an odd game to bring up rebounds.

critiquing a 7 footer for not rebounding is now akin to calling a player ugly?

[Prokorov]

I'm sorry but there are posters who think he should start at SG. You can't make that up

There is a relation - being unobjective about both

the people who want him to start are not calling for that because they think he is an NBA calibur starting SG who will lead us to wins.

The people who want him to start want to see extended minutes from him off the ball in a 2 PG lineup to see how he does in that role and understand that wins dont matter and its about development and seeing what guys can do in different roles. similar to RHJ at PF and Acy at center.

I dont know anyone who is talking about whitehead as the starting SG of the future or the starting anything of the future. career backup (looks to maybe be a very good one) and it is worthwhile to see how he does at SG in a 2 or 3 gaurd lineup

[Prokorov]

I'm fine with him coming off of the bench, he's getting good reps either way. So just like you guys run to the mods and report me when i attribute one person's awful comment to all Lin fans, don't attribute a few posters on here saying that Whitehead should start to me.

Care to explain how I'm "unobjective" about both though? I acknowledge both the positives and negatives about both players. Just me personally, after seeing almost a decade of his play, it's time, in my opinion, for the team to move on from Brook for his sake and ours. He needs to play on a team that has more talent, we need to get assets for him and shift our 5 position to more athleticism with a focus on modern defense, shotblocking, and rebounding.

Whitehead is learning how to play a new position. He needs to improve his shooting and decision making as a PG. I like his defense, his strength, ball handling skill, and I think he can develop into a combo guard with time and work but he's got a ways to go. Where is the lack of objectivity? Because I'm not screaming that he should be sent to the d league?

You also cant just throw away the fact that lopez is a max player who has underachieved here for nearly a decade and whitehead is a second round rookie making the league minimum.

If you are paying someone the max and he is on his 8th head coach in 9 years and EVERYONE else he has played with or who has coached him has been blamed/cut/fired/traded then at some point brook needs to get some heat. the excuses are OVER for lopez. he deserves the criticism he gets. he might end up being the only guy to be the best player or multiple 70 loss teams.

[Prokorov]

I'm sorry but there are posters who think he should start at SG. You can't make that up

There is a relation - being unobjective about both

I'm fine with him coming off of the bench, he's getting good reps either way. So just like you guys run to the mods and report me when i attribute one person's awful comment to all Lin fans, don't attribute a few posters on here saying that Whitehead should start to me.

Care to explain how I'm "unobjective" about both though? I acknowledge both the positives and negatives about both players. Just me personally, after seeing almost a decade of his play, it's time, in my opinion, for the team to move on from Brook for his sake and ours. He needs to play on a team that has more talent, we need to get assets for him and shift our 5 position to more athleticism with a focus on modern defense, shotblocking, and rebounding.

Whitehead is learning how to play a new position. He needs to improve his shooting and decision making as a PG. I like his defense, his strength, ball handling skill, and I think he can develop into a combo guard with time and work but he's got a ways to go. Where is the lack of objectivity? Because I'm not screaming that he should be sent to the d league?

Hey man don't take it personal. I'm not referring to you at all. I know you like Whitehead and he's playing well tonight. I happen to know from your comments though that you don't feel he's ready to start. What I'm talking about is there are obvious favorites on this team and whatever they do is ok whereas others like Bogs and Brook can keep the team in the game by shooting lights out but never get praise. Totally unobjective.

The problem with bogs and brook is their defense...

Bogs is 99 out of 99 qualifying shooting gaurds in defensive RPM. and his defensive metrics are bottom 10 across the board overall among all positions.

we know lopez massive defensive liabilites and how he prevents you from defending as a team.

Bogs i think deserves a pass as a 3rd year guy who makes peanuts and wont be back anyhow. he is a role player asked to start. it isnt bogs gault we dont have a starting calibur SG so he cant come off the bench and just shoot which is his value.

Brook is a legit starter making the max. he deserves the heat. i like that he added a 3 but his effort is still super inconsistent, he rebounds like a gaurd and not a center and his D is a real liability

[Prokorov]

A night like tonight only re-visits the trade proposal from NOP.

We need a quality ball handler in the worst way. Even with Lin. We're still missing our Tyler Johnson and Allen Crabbe.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Bogdanovic is our allen crabbe. similar offenisvely and crabbe has been just as bad defensively.

we do miss our TJ though i agree there

[Prokorov]

Why do people care so much about individual rebounding totals? Especially in this game, it just makes so little sense.

Memphis had 5 offensive rebounds tonight. Five. That's not very many. On only ONE of those five rebounds did Lopez have any culpability, and while he made a mistake on that one (feet glued to the floor), Booker and (arguably) Kilpatrick were more at fault for misreading the long rebound.

Why do people care? maybe because we are DEAD LAST in the league in second chance points allowed?

Also... this narrative where "they only got X" offensive rebounds glosses over part of the issue. that Lopez across the board is a content player. Those arent "meaningless rebounds". it shows a lock of effort or urgency to go after every rebound. if he did that i doubt we would be dead last in second chance points. Being a beast on the glass can be intimidating as well. Drummond for instance makes his presence felt on the glass.... when he is on the floor his rebounding is intimidating and you dont see guys especially smalls stick their nose in as much.

Vs. us, no one fears trying to mix it up down low. and as mentioned brook being content is present everywhere and its an issue. he is content getting whatever points come to him... he wont demand the ball and he wont look to dominate his guy. so many game he had 25+ when someone with a killer instinct would have had 40. He is happy to gofor 20 in the first half then disappear. he is fine settling for post position 18-20 feet out and not getting the ball instead of working for deeper position and demanding it.

[Prokorov]

I was keeping track via phone... thought the comedy was hilarious once again... somewhere mid 3rd, I saw Brook with 3 rebs thus far...

2 mins left in game(my next check in), Brook remains at 3 rebounds for the game...

LOL

Why do people care so much about individual rebounding totals? Especially in this game, it just makes so little sense.

Memphis had 5 offensive rebounds tonight. Five. That's not very many. On only ONE of those five rebounds did Lopez have any culpability, and while he made a mistake on that one (feet glued to the floor), Booker and (arguably) Kilpatrick were more at fault for misreading the long rebound.

When we are drilling a player for being PARTIALLY responsible for a SINGLE EXTRA POSSESSION for the other team, then you know that criticism is disproportionate - individual rebounding continues to be the most overrated and misunderstood area of basketball.

Just as a reminder, we are seeing an NBA-low in Offensive Rebounding Rate across the league. This has been a continuing trend in recent years. More and more teams are forgoing offensive rebounds at the benefit of getting back on defense and/or providing floor spacing for the offense. The corollary of this is that a higher and higher share of defensive rebounds are being UNCONTESTED. Rebounding has never been this unimportant.

If you are making fun of Lopez for his rebounding, at least int his game, you are basically faulting him for not grabbing meaningless rebounds. Or perhaps for not taking rebounds that his teammates grabbed instead. It's a largely aesthetic criticism and isn't too much different from bashing a player because he is ugly.

As long as the other team isn't getting extra possessions (and those extra possessions that happen aren't Lopez's fault), I could not care less how many boards Lopez grabs.

All this said, rebounding has been a problem with Lopez this year - moreso than it has since maybe his Sophomore season. But this seems an odd game to bring up rebounds.

critiquing a 7 footer for not rebounding is now akin to calling a player ugly?

i dont want to hear "its unfair to criticize lopez rebounding" while we are LAST IN THE LEAGUE in second chance points allowed.

I dont want anecdotes, i dont want "Brook boxes out".... im not trying to hear that noise.

[MrDollarBills]

I'm fine with him coming off of the bench, he's getting good reps either way. So just like you guys run to the mods and report me when i attribute one person's awful comment to all Lin fans, don't attribute a few posters on here saying that Whitehead should start to me.

Care to explain how I'm "unobjective" about both though? I acknowledge both the positives and negatives about both players. Just me personally, after seeing almost a decade of his play, it's time, in my opinion, for the team to move on from Brook for his sake and ours. He needs to play on a team that has more talent, we need to get assets for him and shift our 5 position to more athleticism with a focus on modern defense, shotblocking, and rebounding.

Whitehead is learning how to play a new position. He needs to improve his shooting and decision making as a PG. I like his defense, his strength, ball handling skill, and I think he can develop into a combo guard with time and work but he's got a ways to go. Where is the lack of objectivity? Because I'm not screaming that he should be sent to the d league?

Hey man don't take it personal. I'm not referring to you at all. I know you like Whitehead and he's playing well tonight. I happen to know from your comments though that you don't feel he's ready to start. What I'm talking about is there are obvious favorites on this team and whatever they do is ok whereas others like Bogs and Brook can keep the team in the game by shooting lights out but never get praise. Totally unobjective.

The problem with bogs and brook is their defense...

Bogs is 99 out of 99 qualifying shooting gaurds in defensive RPM. and his defensive metrics are bottom 10 across the board overall among all positions.

we know lopez massive defensive liabilites and how he prevents you from defending as a team.

Bogs i think deserves a pass as a 3rd year guy who makes peanuts and wont be back anyhow. he is a role player asked to start. it isnt bogs gault we dont have a starting calibur SG so he cant come off the bench and just shoot which is his value.

Brook is a legit starter making the max. he deserves the heat. i like that he added a 3 but his effort is still super inconsistent, he rebounds like a gaurd and not a center and his D is a real liability

Plus Pete, Prok can tell you that I used to defend Lopez when he and others would kill him on here.

But that all changed after that Utah game earlier this season. That was a moment of clarity to me. I refuse to give him a pass for his lazy defense when i see the young guys getting annihilated on screens while Lopez stands back there with his feet nailed to floor watching the ball handler take practice jumpers. Last night RHJ took a knee straight to his hip on a crushing screen from Gasol and Lopez stood there and watched. Nevermind the fact that RHJ still fought through the screen to foul the shooter in an attempt to defend the shot.

[MrDollarBills]

Why do people care so much about individual rebounding totals? Especially in this game, it just makes so little sense.

Memphis had 5 offensive rebounds tonight. Five. That's not very many. On only ONE of those five rebounds did Lopez have any culpability, and while he made a mistake on that one (feet glued to the floor), Booker and (arguably) Kilpatrick were more at fault for misreading the long rebound.

When we are drilling a player for being PARTIALLY responsible for a SINGLE EXTRA POSSESSION for the other team, then you know that criticism is disproportionate - individual rebounding continues to be the most overrated and misunderstood area of basketball.

Just as a reminder, we are seeing an NBA-low in Offensive Rebounding Rate across the league. This has been a continuing trend in recent years. More and more teams are forgoing offensive rebounds at the benefit of getting back on defense and/or providing floor spacing for the offense. The corollary of this is that a higher and higher share of defensive rebounds are being UNCONTESTED. Rebounding has never been this unimportant.

If you are making fun of Lopez for his rebounding, at least int his game, you are basically faulting him for not grabbing meaningless rebounds. Or perhaps for not taking rebounds that his teammates grabbed instead. It's a largely aesthetic criticism and isn't too much different from bashing a player because he is ugly.

As long as the other team isn't getting extra possessions (and those extra possessions that happen aren't Lopez's fault), I could not care less how many boards Lopez grabs.

All this said, rebounding has been a problem with Lopez this year - moreso than it has since maybe his Sophomore season. But this seems an odd game to bring up rebounds.

critiquing a 7 footer for not rebounding is now akin to calling a player ugly?

i dont want to hear "its unfair to criticize lopez rebounding" while we are LAST IN THE LEAGUE in second chance points allowed.

I dont want anecdotes, i dont want "Brook boxes out".... im not trying to hear that noise.

"Meaningless rebounds" has to be one of the craziest things I've seen posted yet.

On what level of the sport are rebounds meaningless??? Rebounds are either a change of possession or a retention of possession and a new 24 second clock. They are crucial aspects to the game.

The more Lopez plays like crap, the further the goal posts get pushed back

[Rainyy]

Why do people care? maybe because we are DEAD LAST in the league in second chance points allowed?

Not really a great statistic, as gross second-chance points isn't pace adjusted and risks double-counting our defensive liabilities under the rebounding umbrella. Defensive Rebounding Rate (DRR) seems the better metric.

The Nets are currently 23rd in DRR, and were 15th in DRR just a couple weeks or so again. We have been a middle-low-middle defensive rebounding team all year long. It's nowhere close to being a significant weakness (relative to our other problems).

Since there is a noticeable rebounding drop off between Lopez and Hamilton, I'd imagine our Team DRR is actually even better with Lopez in the lineup. I'd have to look at the numbers to see if they corroborate this hypothesis.

Those arent "meaningless rebounds". it shows a lock of effort or urgency to go after every rebound.

If the other team isn't contesting rebounds as part of their gameplan, then many of those rebounds will be meaningless.

In some cases, I'd actually go a step further and say it is inefficient for the center to grab the rebound. If a quicker guard like LeVert grabs the rebound then we are in a better position to run the floor. Similarly, by conceding these rebounds to his guards, Lopez can start running down the court to set up earlier offensive position.

If Lopez focuses on grabbing uncontested boards then I think there is going to be a break in the action, and we will be playing 4 v 5 until Lopez gets back on the offensive side of things. Pass.

he is fine settling for post position 18-20 feet out and not getting the ball instead of working for deeper position and demanding it.

This issue of course is that we don't have players who can feed him inside in good low-post position. I maintain part of the reason Lopez posts-up so far is that he knows there is about a 1% chance he will get the ball that close to the basket. Guys like Dinwiddie and Foye already struggle to make the most basic entry passes when Lopez is right in front of them - do you really think they will succeed with tighter passing windows and a further distance?

Moreover, since neither Booker or RHJ can space the floor, chances are if Lopez is deep in the post, there will be a help defender near by. This makes both the entry pass and the shot more difficult.

[Rainyy]

On what level of the sport are rebounds meaningless??? Rebounds are either a change of possession or a retention of possession and a new 24 second clock. They are crucial aspects to the game.

The more Lopez plays like crap, the further the goal posts get pushed back

1. This has absolutely nothing to do with Lopez. This has to do with a consensus in the Statistics Community, and very real, measurable phenomena like a league-wide increase in uncontested rebound% and a decrease in Offensive Rebounding Rate.

There is a reason Sports VU began tracking and Synergy via NBA.com stats began publishing uncontested versus contested rebounds a few years ago. It wasn't because of some elaborate conspiracy to apologize for Brook Lopez's boxscore; it was because the entire analytical community determined these distinctions were really important.

I would suggest looking into the "MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference." Some really bright people writing interesting stuff. I think you'll find my views on rebounding are more prevalent than you'd imagine, at least in that community.

2.

Rebounds are either a change of possession or a retention of possession and a new 24 second clock. They are crucial aspects to the game.

I think the issue is more precisely stated as a question of value: who is responsible for the change of possession?

What the SportVu tracking data has helped analysts see is that on a substantial percentage of plays, the defense simply isn't interested in grabbing an offensive rebound. Functionally, they are conceding the possession so it makes little sense to reward an individual for "earning" a possession via a rebound.

The old, faulty assumption used to be that all rebounds represented the gaining of possession, which further assumed that those possessions were at risk. The result was a lot of boxscore-watching.

Basketball is due for an analytical revolution like that experienced under baseball. Still way too many old school GMs/coaches/scouts/etc. who have not kept up with the times. That is changing and will continue to change.

[Paradise]

A team without a bonafide star should VALUE possessions. Especially one not very talented defensively.

Rebounding is an aspect of defense. You are limiting the other team to ONE shot per possession for every defensive rebound or foul via rebound. It's not rocket science. Brook Lopez inches more and more towards being the next Andrea Bargnani with his pathetic rebounding.

I don't want to hear the nonsense we rebound we'll due to him boxing out other guys. You don't see any other stars on lottery teams giving up rebounds for teammates. Cousins grabs 15, 20 rebounds every other week. Brook hasn't done that since 2014.

I'm starting to realize the increase in his rebounding the last two seasons was only due to Hollins challenging his got damn manhood in the media.


2016-17:

10-14 Reb GMS - 2
19-24 Reb GMS - 0

2015-16:

10-14 Reb GMS - 25
19-24 Reb GMS - 1

2014-15:

10-14 Reb GMS - 14
19-24 Reb GMS - 4

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[NyCeEvO]

A team without a bonafide star should VALUE possessions. Especially one not very talented defensively.

Rebounding is an aspect of defense. You are limiting the other team to ONE shot per possession for every defensive rebound or foul via rebound. It's not rocket science. Brook Lopez inches more and more towards being the next Andrea Bargnani with his pathetic rebounding.

I don't want to hear the nonsense we rebound we'll due to him boxing out other guys. You don't see any other stars on lottery teams giving up rebounds for teammates. Cousins grabs 15, 20 rebounds every other week. Brook hasn't done that since 2014.

I'm starting to realize the increase in his rebounding the last two seasons was only due to Hollins challenging his got damn manhood in the media.


2016-17:

10-14 Reb GMS - 2
19-24 Reb GMS - 0

2015-16:

10-14 Reb GMS - 25
19-24 Reb GMS - 1

2014-15:

10-14 Reb GMS - 14
19-24 Reb GMS - 4

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

My basketball coaches never said that some box out while others get the rebounds.

You're either boxing out and rebounding if the ball comes next to you or you're getting back so that the defense doesn't get easy transition points. If you're assignment isn't to get back, you need to box out and crash the glass. It's not an either/or task.

[NyCeEvO]

Dinwiddie is having a good game. LV used to have some good games too but have fallen back to earth.

He needs to go to the d league, clearly.

PG13's statement is true though. LV is not producing like he was a few weeks ago. I don't think that's a controversial statement. He'll continue to get better but he's still a rookie.

[Rainyy]

A team without a bonafide star should VALUE possessions. Especially one not very talented defensively.

The problem is that there are tradeoffs with valuing possessions. Atkinson's offensive system, for instance, does not value additional possessions. The combination of playing at a very fast pace and using our bigs as floor-spacers means we will not challenge for offensive rebounds as often as other teams.

On the defensive side, there is much less opportunity cost to valuing additional possessions, which is partially why there is SUBSTANTIALLY more variance in Team ORR than in Team DRR. The Nets certainly could be a better defensive rebounding team, but it hasn't been a disaster. We've been a middle-low team all year long.

More importantly, there is a very small standard deviation in Team DRR, which I think reflects the huge number of uncontested rebounds in the NBA. Basically, the differences between the top and bottom defensive rebounding teams are very small. Or more precisely, they're microscopic compared to the differences between the top and bottom teams in terms of offense, defense, or offensive rebounds. Defensive rebounding just isn't a very important element of the game and the Nets aren't some outlier of a team there.

Rebounding is an aspect of defense. You are limiting the other team to ONE shot per possession for every defensive rebound or foul via rebound.

I am fine with someone saying rebounding is part of defense, so long as they don't double-count the two. I personally treat them separately so as to avoid overly rewarding or penalizing certain players.

I don't want to hear the nonsense we rebound we'll due to him boxing out other guys.

Rebounding is a team concept. It's a little more complex than who literally grabs the board. It's not all dissimilar to something like PnR defense. You can't just boil defending the PnR down to the discrete event of the final shot/who contests it.

If you want to call there "boxing out" defense nonsense, then you might as well say something like "hedging or playing tight on screens" is also nonsense. You don't believe the latter so it's a pretty glaring double standard.

You don't see any other stars on lottery teams giving up rebounds for teammates.

You see it throughout the league - every big concedes some rebounds to teammates. Lopez is at the extreme end of the spectrum, but it's certainly not a phenomenem unique to him.

[CalamityX12]

A team without a bonafide star should VALUE possessions. Especially one not very talented defensively.

Rebounding is an aspect of defense. You are limiting the other team to ONE shot per possession for every defensive rebound or foul via rebound. It's not rocket science. Brook Lopez inches more and more towards being the next Andrea Bargnani with his pathetic rebounding.

I don't want to hear the nonsense we rebound we'll due to him boxing out other guys. You don't see any other stars on lottery teams giving up rebounds for teammates. Cousins grabs 15, 20 rebounds every other week. Brook hasn't done that since 2014.

I'm starting to realize the increase in his rebounding the last two seasons was only due to Hollins challenging his got damn manhood in the media.


2016-17:

10-14 Reb GMS - 2
19-24 Reb GMS - 0

2015-16:

10-14 Reb GMS - 25
19-24 Reb GMS - 1

2014-15:

10-14 Reb GMS - 14
19-24 Reb GMS - 4

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

love this post!!!!!

GOD AWFUL stats to see about Brook there.....

he broke double digits in rebounding twice? WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!

[MrDollarBills]

On what level of the sport are rebounds meaningless??? Rebounds are either a change of possession or a retention of possession and a new 24 second clock. They are crucial aspects to the game.

The more Lopez plays like crap, the further the goal posts get pushed back

1. This has absolutely nothing to do with Lopez. This has to do with a consensus in the Statistics Community, and very real, measurable phenomena like a league-wide increase in uncontested rebound% and a decrease in Offensive Rebounding Rate.

There is a reason Sports VU began tracking and Synergy via NBA.com stats began publishing uncontested versus contested rebounds a few years ago. It wasn't because of some elaborate conspiracy to apologize for Brook Lopez's boxscore; it was because the entire analytical community determined these distinctions were really important.

I would suggest looking into the "MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference." Some really bright people writing interesting stuff. I think you'll find my views on rebounding are more prevalent than you'd imagine, at least in that community.

2.

Rebounds are either a change of possession or a retention of possession and a new 24 second clock. They are crucial aspects to the game.

I think the issue is more precisely stated as a question of value: who is responsible for the change of possession?

What the SportVu tracking data has helped analysts see is that on a substantial percentage of plays, the defense simply isn't interested in grabbing an offensive rebound. Functionally, they are conceding the possession so it makes little sense to reward an individual for "earning" a possession via a rebound.

The old, faulty assumption used to be that all rebounds represented the gaining of possession, which further assumed that those possessions were at risk. The result was a lot of boxscore-watching.

Basketball is due for an analytical revolution like that experienced under baseball. Still way too many old school GMs/coaches/scouts/etc. who have not kept up with the times. That is changing and will continue to change.

I actually agree with determining a distinction between a contested and an uncontested rebound. I don't think someone should get a pat on the back for getting a clean board with zero opposing shirts around them as opposed to a good defensive rebound off of a box out and not giving up 2nd chance points like they Nets seemingly do constantly.

That being said, Lopez shouldn't get a pass because of that or the analytical community coming to the idea that individual rebounding shouldn't be "rewarded" for a player earning an offensive possession via rebound. The guy isn't doing his job.

[ghostowl]

I think Rebounding is one of the most important aspects of the game. Your team will not win if you can't at least rebound enough to get defensive rebounds consistently

The previous game vs. Heat where the Heat forward had an offensive rebound with 5 Net players surrounding him (with no Heat teammates nearby) just summed up the game for me. That's worse than the actual loss. I'd rather lose but see players work hard and try to improve. You let a shorter dude out-rebound you as a center when he's the only one there and its 5 of you? That's unacceptable, no ifs or buts.

[MGrand15]

A team without a bonafide star should VALUE possessions. Especially one not very talented defensively.

Rebounding is an aspect of defense. You are limiting the other team to ONE shot per possession for every defensive rebound or foul via rebound. It's not rocket science. Brook Lopez inches more and more towards being the next Andrea Bargnani with his pathetic rebounding.

I don't want to hear the nonsense we rebound we'll due to him boxing out other guys. You don't see any other stars on lottery teams giving up rebounds for teammates. Cousins grabs 15, 20 rebounds every other week. Brook hasn't done that since 2014.

I'm starting to realize the increase in his rebounding the last two seasons was only due to Hollins challenging his got damn manhood in the media.


2016-17:

10-14 Reb GMS - 2
19-24 Reb GMS - 0

2015-16:

10-14 Reb GMS - 25
19-24 Reb GMS - 1

2014-15:

10-14 Reb GMS - 14
19-24 Reb GMS - 4

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I find it interesting that Lopez gets constantly compared to Cousins. DMC is universally regarded as the most talented center in the league and a franchise talent. He's in bad shape and a headcase but the talent is undeniable. Even the most optimistic Lopez defenders consider him a 2nd option and fringe all star type talent with clear flaws. Yet the people that bash him can't help but to compare him to franchise type players.

[MGrand15]

I figured Net fans would be the 1st fan base to understand how meaningless raw individual rebounding numbers COULD be. We had Reggie Evans putting up Rodman numbers. Humphries was posting monster rebounding stats at one point.

What's funny is if Brook told himself - I'm going 100% after the rebound on missed FTs - he'd up his average to respectable levels and it would make 0 difference in the outcome of anything. Don't understand why he doesn't.