'16-17 Trade Thread / In Season Pickups - Part II

MrDollarBills · Post #421 » by **MrDollarBills** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:03 pm

I think it had more to do with the overall disgust for Deron Williams than it does with Jackson being good or not.

Paradise · Post #422 » by **Paradise** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:17 pm

MrDollarBills wrote:I think it had more to do with the overall disgust for Deron Williams than it does with Jackson being good or not.

We were looking at Lance Stephenson. I would've taken Jackson over dealing Brook for him. I backed off on the idea once Durant and Westbrook ripped him when he was traded to Detroit. Westbrook basically called him an **** and said he wouldn't last in Detroit.

They were correct.

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DeRoma · Post #423 » by **DeRoma** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:36 pm

We should go after sully cut scola

NetSymptom · Post #424 » by **NetSymptom** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:42 pm

NyCeEvO wrote:
Paradise wrote:SVG is reportedly struggling to find any takers for Reggie Jackson. Teams won't offer a starting role.

Meanwhile, Billy King wanted to build around the guy and nearly traded Lopez for him. Lol.

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To be fair, a number of posters on here also wanted that deal to get done.

I can't remember what my take was on that trade but it would be interesting to go back and look at that thread.

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viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1360639&hilit=Jackson&start=1020

Pretty good discussion in there

NetSymptom · Post #425 » by **NetSymptom** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 7:34 pm

vincecarter4pres wrote:Moar roomers pleeze!

For the record, this made me laugh out loud at work lol. I had to slink down in my cubicle to avoid detection

vincecarter4pres · Post #426 » by **vincecarter4pres** » Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:54 pm

NetSymptom wrote:
vincecarter4pres wrote:Moar roomers pleeze!

For the record, this made me laugh out loud at work lol. I had to slink down in my cubicle to avoid detection

Prokorov · Post #427 » by **Prokorov** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:24 am

twosevenstreet wrote:
DUDE!!!!!

TANKING WORKS, they suck at drafting simple!!!!

Philly had the 6th and 11th picks in 2013, CJ went 10th, Giannis went 15th. A better GM picks CJ and Giannis. TAKE A STEP BACK and THINK LOGICALLY.

How does Hinkie being BAD at TALENT EVALUATION prove that tanking doesn't work??????

His tanking put them in a position in which they COULD have gotten CJ and Giannis. Sam Presti would have picked CJ and Giannis, so because Hinkie DIDN'T draft well does not disprove that having high picks with a competent GM will yield GREAT results.

no, thats not how it works. the fact that giannis went 15th instead of top 3 shows he was passed on 10 or 12 times. thats why tanking doesnt work. because there is too much luck involved and drafting in general is extremely difficult.

you cant pluck the top guy from each draft and assume you tank and get them. unless they are going #1 overall.

even with presti, if he gets number 1 instead of number 2 he gets oden isntead of durant

TheNetsFan · Post #428 » by **TheNetsFan** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:40 am

Prokorov wrote:
twosevenstreet wrote:
DUDE!!!!!

TANKING WORKS, they suck at drafting simple!!!!

Philly had the 6th and 11th picks in 2013, CJ went 10th, Giannis went 15th. A better GM picks CJ and Giannis. TAKE A STEP BACK and THINK LOGICALLY.

How does Hinkie being BAD at TALENT EVALUATION prove that tanking doesn't work??????

His tanking put them in a position in which they COULD have gotten CJ and Giannis. Sam Presti would have picked CJ and Giannis, so because Hinkie DIDN'T draft well does not disprove that having high picks with a competent GM will yield GREAT results.

no, thats not how it works. the fact that giannis went 15th instead of top 3 shows he was passed on 10 or 12 times. thats why tanking doesnt work. because there is too much luck involved and drafting in general is extremely difficult.

you cant pluck the top guy from each draft and assume you tank and get them. unless they are going #1 overall.

even with presti, if he gets number 1 instead of number 2 he gets oden isntead of durant

Every team has different draft boards. Just because some teams pass on a guy, doesn't mean all teams would have. Per Lowe, the Spurs had the Hill trade with the Pacers set, but kept trying to get higher, dangling Hill and listening on Parker. The Pacers had Leonard 5th on their board, but because they had George and Granger at the time, they made the deal. Some teams just scout and evaluate better.

http://grantland.com/features/analyzing-kawhi-leonard-george-hill-trade-2013-conference-finals/

twosevenstreet · Post #429 » by **twosevenstreet** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:21 am

Prokorov wrote:
twosevenstreet wrote:
DUDE!!!!!

TANKING WORKS, they suck at drafting simple!!!!

Philly had the 6th and 11th picks in 2013, CJ went 10th, Giannis went 15th. A better GM picks CJ and Giannis. TAKE A STEP BACK and THINK LOGICALLY.

How does Hinkie being BAD at TALENT EVALUATION prove that tanking doesn't work??????

His tanking put them in a position in which they COULD have gotten CJ and Giannis. Sam Presti would have picked CJ and Giannis, so because Hinkie DIDN'T draft well does not disprove that having high picks with a competent GM will yield GREAT results.

no, thats not how it works. the fact that giannis went 15th instead of top 3 shows he was passed on 10 or 12 times. thats why tanking doesnt work. because there is too much luck involved and drafting in general is extremely difficult.

you cant pluck the top guy from each draft and assume you tank and get them. unless they are going #1 overall.

even with presti, if he gets number 1 instead of number 2 he gets oden isntead of durant

Tanking = getting the best draft position possible
Tanking =/= picking the best player

The point of tanking is to be in the position to pick the best players. Picking the best player is up to the team being good at scouting.

I really don't understand how you don't get this.

Prokorov · Post #430 » by **Prokorov** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 2:42 pm

twosevenstreet wrote:
Prokorov wrote:
twosevenstreet wrote:
DUDE!!!!!

TANKING WORKS, they suck at drafting simple!!!!

Philly had the 6th and 11th picks in 2013, CJ went 10th, Giannis went 15th. A better GM picks CJ and Giannis. TAKE A STEP BACK and THINK LOGICALLY.

How does Hinkie being BAD at TALENT EVALUATION prove that tanking doesn't work??????

His tanking put them in a position in which they COULD have gotten CJ and Giannis. Sam Presti would have picked CJ and Giannis, so because Hinkie DIDN'T draft well does not disprove that having high picks with a competent GM will yield GREAT results.

no, thats not how it works. the fact that giannis went 15th instead of top 3 shows he was passed on 10 or 12 times. thats why tanking doesnt work. because there is too much luck involved and drafting in general is extremely difficult.

But here is the bottom line. you say tanking works based ona
you cant pluck the top guy from each draft and assume you tank and get them. unless they are going #1 overall.

even with presti, if he gets number 1 instead of number 2 he gets oden isntead of durant

Tanking = getting the best draft position possible
Tanking =/= picking the best player

The point of tanking is to be in the position to pick the best players. Picking the best player is up to the team being good at scouting.

I really don't understand how you don't get this.

that is actually what im saying. that all tanking gets you is draft position. you still need to draft the right players and i think you are drastically underrating how hard that is and how much luck is involved:

after tanking you need:
-the lottery to shake out in your favor. (we lost 70 games and picked 3rd that year)
-the draft to have elite talent at the top (so you dont end up with andrew bogut, olawakandi, or kwame brown)
-the clear best player in the draft to be the clear number one pick (so you end up with durant and not oden)
-the player to be healthy, so you get 3 full years of him before his contract us up to evaluate him
-the player to be at a position of need so you dont end up with redundant pieces (and not deal noel/okafor for scraps)

Really, unless you end up with 2 generational superstars (like lebron or KD+westbrook) you really dont have much chance with tanking. even if you hit on most of your picks you have a losing atmosphere were guys either want out via trade or look to sign elsewhere when their contracts are up. and even in a non tank situation with great young players it usually takes 4 or 5 years for them to get to the point where they can even fight to be a playoff team (look at the wolves). and even with multiple #1 picks it is still tough (look at the cavs before lebron bailed them out).

I look at denver who hasnt tanked and to me they are right there with philly and jokic is better then anyone weve seen so far for the sixers (we will see on simmons).

Sicne philly started tanking they already traded Noel an MCW and Okafor may be next. so for 4 years of tanking they have embiid and simmons, neither who is healthy right now and who knows on embiid long term.

a good GM/scouts will always speed up the process, a bad one slow it down. but the tracking record on tanking so far is AWFUL.

the only good example of tanking isnt even a team that tanked (OKC). they shipped out ray allen to rebuild, where bad but didnt lose for draft position and never picked #1.

if the thunder had the #1 pick every year they are 100% taking oden over durant, rose over westbrook, and griffin over harden.

i doubt rose/griffin/oden would have worked out as well... and even if it did they didnt tank anyhow.

your entire basis for tanking working is that another GM would have taken the #10 or #15 picks in the top 3. which seems absurd given so many teams passed on those guys and no one traded up for them

Jagger-meister · Post #431 » by **Jagger-meister** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:46 pm

When do we find out if Terrence Jones was claimed?

antique0o0 · Post #432 » by **antique0o0** » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:34 pm

Brook needs a stretch 4 to space the floor for him offensively, and an athletic 4 to help him grab the rebounds and defense, and if this 4 can pass would make it slightly better...which are such difficult conditions to meet at the same time...

Mkdaman1818 · Post #433 » by **Mkdaman1818** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:20 pm

Any interest in Brandon Jennings?

Read on Twitter

Paradise · Post #434 » by **Paradise** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:11 pm

Mkdaman1818 wrote:Any interest in Brandon Jennings?

Read on Twitter

Didn't we work him out a few days before we signed Lin? I certainly wouldn't mind him over a Foye.

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Prokorov · Post #435 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:19 pm

Mkdaman1818 wrote:Any interest in Brandon Jennings?

Read on Twitter

i like jennings. id sign him. he plays hard on both ends and if he is reeled in can be a good player. started to look good for a while under SVG

Post #436 » by **CalamityX12** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:27 pm

what did i miss?

why is Jennings being waived? thought he was playing well for the Knicks?

Post #437 » by **CalamityX12** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:28 pm

and yes, i most definitely bring him over

Post #438 » by **CalamityX12** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:32 pm

Read on Twitter

Prokorov · Post #439 » by **Prokorov** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:45 pm

CalamityX12 wrote:

Read on Twitter

there goes any thoughts of us signing him.

Post #440 » by **NyCeEvO** » Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:46 pm

Ror1997 wrote:
NyCeEvO wrote:
Paradise wrote:SVG is reportedly struggling to find any takers for Reggie Jackson. Teams won't offer a starting role.

Meanwhile, Billy King wanted to build around the guy and nearly traded Lopez for him. Lol.

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To be fair, a number of posters on here also wanted that deal to get done.

I can't remember what my take was on that trade but it would be interesting to go back and look at that thread.

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It was either you or Prok, but one of you guys were very very excited about potentially getting Perry Jones.

Oh yeah...I wanted PJ3. I'm pretty sure I referred to him as Durant-lite which he was from a talent perspective in that he was tall, could shoot from 3 and was somewhat athletic. On the negative side, I think he was a bit injury prone and didn't have the best of attitudes.

Although I think the issue involving him that is most relevant to our current discussion is cost. At the peak of his run, he probably would've warranted a low 1st round pick but I think even he suffered an injury that made him miss a substantial amount of time after his scoring spree. By the end of the season, he'd have been a 2nd rd pick at best. With Jackson, we knew that we'd have to max him and give him the proverbial keys to the franchise.

I can get behind taking flyers on cheap players because we can cut them without really batting an eye. If we'd have gotten PJ3 and then found him to be a problem, we could've cut him and that wouldn't have been that big of a deal. The same couldn't be done with Reggie and that contract.