Leafs 2014-15 Season Thread

[BramptonYute]

Yeah, who gives a **** if MLSE has to pay? Whats 30 Mill to MLSE?

Anyways, was listening to Bob McCown and he was saying that we may be able to get an asset back from a team close to the cap (Philly, Chicago, Boston) for Horton, because it would give them extra cap space (since they'll be right up against the ceilling), and it wouldnt really help us out if we move Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul and Bozak because of the amount of cap space that we would create. Hortons cap hit would count against the cap unless we are right there at the ceilling (like we are now). You just have to find another owner willing to pay Hortons salary. I assume there isnt many out there.

If we actually could flip Horton for a decent prospect or pick, that would amazing.

[whysoserious]

I love how people are suddenly giving Nonis credit. It's a good move but it's still costing MLSE $30 million and getting nothing for it. There's no excuse for that and he should and likely will be gone at the end of the season. The only reason he's around, IMO, is to make the moves Shanny wants without him actually having to make them himself without a GM in place.

Give whoever you want credit, but the Leafs just got rid of one of the worst contracts in the league from their salary cap.

Toronto’s capologist Brandon Pridham was apparently a significant help in getting this deal done in the sense he knows the NHL’s collective bargaining agreement and the LTIR ramifications better than almost anyone. He will also now be able get the Leafs to maximize their cap space with Horton on the books the next five years, as he has an intimate understanding how Boston and Philadelphia have navigated those waters with other players who have had career-ending injuries (Marc Savard and Chris Pronger).

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/h ... e23226962/

Yeah, but, but, MLSE pays for it... we get the best possible outcome for Clarkson at this point and this is what fans want to bitch about?

Absolutely we should continue to bitch about it. MLSE deserves credit for paying $30 mill for nothing. But that doesn't mean Clarksons contract wasn't and isn't an issue. It looks like Shanny and his team may be coming with a different approach but we'll see. They may just go out this summer and spend that money on someone else that ends up in a Clarkson (and the player was never the problem) situation. It's been 10 years since the Cap came in and the Leafs haven't figured it out through several management teams.

[BramptonYute]

Clarksons contract isnt an issue anymore.

And I dont see anything that would make one think that we're gonna sign another big FA. If its not clear that we're rebuilding to, then I have no idea how to make clearer.

[whysoserious]

Clarksons contract isnt an issue anymore.

And I dont see anything that would make one think that we're gonna sign another big FA. If its not clear that we're rebuilding to, then I have no idea how to make clearer.

I'm not denying that we're rebuilding or ever have. What I've said is that this team has said a lot in the past and failed. Yes it's a different management group but when the pressures on and the losing racks up, does this ownership have the balls to stick with the plan or do they put pressure on the management team to start producing a playoff team asap? There's never really been the resolve to stick with a rebuild and it's not a one year process.

I pointed out how Nonis just cost MLSE $30 mill for nothing with the initial signing of Clarkson and now this trade. Good for him for moving that but do you guys really believe Rogers/Bell just throws 30 mill away or do they jack ticket prices to recoup that and then put pressure to get some playoff money to recoup that?

They're doing things, or at least heading in the right direction but I'm still skeptical whether they have the patience to see it through. And after all these years, I think I'm right to not trust them. If some of you want to, I'm not going to knock you for that, so don't point out that I'm not clear on what's going on either.

[BramptonYute]

Clarksons contract isnt an issue anymore.

And I dont see anything that would make one think that we're gonna sign another big FA. If its not clear that we're rebuilding to, then I have no idea how to make clearer.

I'm not denying that we're rebuilding or ever have. What I've said is that this team has said a lot in the past and failed. Yes it's a different management group but when the pressures on and the losing racks up, does this ownership have the balls to stick with the plan or do they put pressure on the management team to start producing a playoff team asap? There's never really been the resolve to stick with a rebuild and it's not a one year process.

I pointed out how Nonis just cost MLSE $30 mill for nothing with the initial signing of Clarkson and now this trade. Good for him for moving that but do you guys really believe Rogers/Bell just throws 30 mill away or do they jack ticket prices to recoup that and then put pressure to get some playoff money to recoup that?

They're doing things, or at least heading in the right direction but I'm still skeptical whether they have the patience to see it through. And after all these years, I think I'm right to not trust them. If some of you want to, I'm not going to knock you for that, so don't point out that I'm not clear on what's going on either.

When is everyone going to get over the past? Like seriously, who gives a **** about Tuukka Rask? We traded him, it didnt work out, get over it. Theres a new guy leading the ship, theres new owners, theres probably going to be a new GM and new coach too. Things are changing. It came out that ownership was OK with a full rebuild, so im pretty sure Shannahan went over everything with them and probably told them that they wont rush it. Who knows if they will though? Nothing right now leads me to think that they will though.

If ownership had a problem paying 30 mill for a guy who wouldnt play, they would have said so and the trade wouldn't been approved. Sure, they're probably not ecstatic paying Horton 30 million over the next 5 years, but they still approved the trade. Dont see why any fan should care about MLSE paying 30 mill, its not your money. And in no way do I think Nonis is good gm or should be kept around because of the Clarkson trade.

Look at what we're doing right now. We're selling off players, stocking up on Draft picks and we'll probably get some younger players back when we trade guys like Kessel and Phaneuf. They have shown nothing so far to lead you to believe that ownership/mgt will make a win-now move. Like I said before, new ownership, new president of hockey ops, probably going to be a new gm. Just cause past owners and gm's did things that were stupid does not mean that the new owners and gm will make those same mistakes.

[whysoserious]

New Ownership, its the same group that made a Clarkson signing with Nonis in place. Why can't I be skeptical in not believing them. I won't take their words or a few minor trades in the past few weeks as though things are changing. The two groups that own the Leafs are all about money, they aren't going throw away 30 million. Yes, they signed off on it but they're also going to want to recoup that money.

You may be right, but I have a right to my opinion as well and the past is important. It's what this organization has done through various ownerships and management yet they have never committed to a rebuild so if they follow through, it will be the first time ever really and I'll believe it when I see it.

[bballsparkin]

Thanks for the website Brew.

Wow, Leafs sure lucked out with that trade.

[OAKLEY_2]

Thanks for the website Brew.

Wow, Leafs sure lucked out with that trade.

The only way the sands will shift is if the Laffs build with the waiver wire and the draft. They should also give ticket holders a 30 per cent reduction across the board. Will that ever happen? Not with this Junta.

[Regulator]

Need to dump the robotic pylon and the chipmunk next

[whysoserious]

Not much action overall. Trade Deadline day is such a joke from a media coverage perspective. So over the top with not much real substance.

Either way, it was going to be tough to move any of the big names at the deadline and I'd rather they hold strong on eating salary just to move guys like Phaneuf or Kessel. Hopefully they can do something at the draft. I'm still iffy on moving Kessel because no matter what you say, the guy can flat out score. He just can't be your main piece and needs a lot of support (leadership wise and talent wise) so he can just be one of the guys and play.

[bballsparkin]

The only way the sands will shift is if the Laffs build with the waiver wire and the draft. They should also give ticket holders a 30 per cent reduction across the board. Will that ever happen? Not with this Junta.

I've felt the Leaf should build through the draft and youth for a while now. Like a decade lol. But it looks like they finally may be on the right path. A ticket price of 30% I don't see happening. I mean, serious question, have they ever lowered ticket prices?

[bballsparkin]

Not much action overall. Trade Deadline day is such a joke from a media coverage perspective. So over the top with not much real substance.

Either way, it was going to be tough to move any of the big names at the deadline and I'd rather they hold strong on eating salary just to move guys like Phaneuf or Kessel. Hopefully they can do something at the draft. I'm still iffy on moving Kessel because no matter what you say, the guy can flat out score. He just can't be your main piece and needs a lot of support (leadership wise and talent wise) so he can just be one of the guys and play.

Yeah the offseason is when the Leafs can move the bigger contracts. I think you only move Kessel if the return is impressive because you're right he can flat out score

edit: look at how Backstrom has helped Ovechikin. If the Leafs keep Kessels they need to find a quality center to play with him.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Not much action overall. Trade Deadline day is such a joke from a media coverage perspective. So over the top with not much real substance.

Either way, it was going to be tough to move any of the big names at the deadline and I'd rather they hold strong on eating salary just to move guys like Phaneuf or Kessel. Hopefully they can do something at the draft. I'm still iffy on moving Kessel because no matter what you say, the guy can flat out score. He just can't be your main piece and needs a lot of support (leadership wise and talent wise) so he can just be one of the guys and play.

I caught about an hour of TSN's coverage and in the lull there was some great anecdotes. Including Ron Wilson talking about how Washington told him to lose games on purpose and was reamed out by the GM after they accidentally won a game. And that the player they tanked for an wanted never made it. I don't know if I've ever heard an admission of tanking before in any sport. That kind of stuff is much more entertaining than discussing 4th rounders for impending UFAs.

I'm just worried the Leafs didn't do enough to ensure a bottom 4 finish. There are too many teams close to them and this thing could end up 8th or 9th.

[LLJ]

I don't know if I've ever heard an admission of tanking before in any sport.

Google "ML Carr tanking."

[OAKLEY_2]

I hope we will see a good number of these players as full time Leafs in the not so distant future.
MacWilliam, TJ Brennan, McKegg, Percy, Leivo, Connor Brown, Victor Loov, Nylander.

Toronto needs to graduate more players from the farm for any rebuild. Hopefully Shanahan gets this because clearly Nonis/Burke didn't.

[TRNBA12]

I don't know if I've ever heard an admission of tanking before in any sport.

Google "ML Carr tanking."

+ The Penguins the season before drafting Mario Lemieux is a confirmed tank, the coach and manager say they knew the team was folding if they didn't get him, did things like send a good goalie to the minors and called up a scrub goalie in his place, played bad lines more, etc.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Thanks.

From Elliot Friedman

5. The salary cap floor is $51M. Right now, Toronto is committed to spending almost $51.5 million on players who are not in their NHL lineup. They are Nathan Horton ($26 million, won’t play again), Mikhail Grabovski $14.3 million (compliance buyout), Tim Gleason $5.3 million (regular buyout), Mike Komisarek $2.3 million (compliance buyout), Colton Orr $925,000 (in AHL), Matt Frattin $800,000 (in AHL), Frazer McLaren $700,000 (in AHL), Troy Bodie $600,000 (in AHL), Carl Gunnarsson $400,000 (retained salary in trade) and Daniel Winnik, approximately $160,000 (retained salary in trade).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-p-k-subban-now-another-level/

And they were trying hard to dump Bozak. The buzz at the deadline was that they were being asked to retain 3 mill per year on Phaneuf's deal. Nonis will be fired.

[whysoserious]

Thanks.

From Elliot Friedman

5. The salary cap floor is $51M. Right now, Toronto is committed to spending almost $51.5 million on players who are not in their NHL lineup. They are Nathan Horton ($26 million, won’t play again), Mikhail Grabovski $14.3 million (compliance buyout), Tim Gleason $5.3 million (regular buyout), Mike Komisarek $2.3 million (compliance buyout), Colton Orr $925,000 (in AHL), Matt Frattin $800,000 (in AHL), Frazer McLaren $700,000 (in AHL), Troy Bodie $600,000 (in AHL), Carl Gunnarsson $400,000 (retained salary in trade) and Daniel Winnik, approximately $160,000 (retained salary in trade).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-p-k-subban-now-another-level/

And they were trying hard to dump Bozak. The buzz at the deadline was that they were being asked to retain 3 mill per year on Phaneuf's deal. Nonis will be fired.

That is so ugly to be paying that much for players not to play with your team. A lot on Nonis but a lot falls on Burke too from some previous deals he handed out. Spending more money fixing bad mistakes from the past.

[CPT]

Thanks.

From Elliot Friedman

5. The salary cap floor is $51M. Right now, Toronto is committed to spending almost $51.5 million on players who are not in their NHL lineup. They are Nathan Horton ($26 million, won’t play again), Mikhail Grabovski $14.3 million (compliance buyout), Tim Gleason $5.3 million (regular buyout), Mike Komisarek $2.3 million (compliance buyout), Colton Orr $925,000 (in AHL), Matt Frattin $800,000 (in AHL), Frazer McLaren $700,000 (in AHL), Troy Bodie $600,000 (in AHL), Carl Gunnarsson $400,000 (retained salary in trade) and Daniel Winnik, approximately $160,000 (retained salary in trade).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-p-k-subban-now-another-level/

And they were trying hard to dump Bozak. The buzz at the deadline was that they were being asked to retain 3 mill per year on Phaneuf's deal. Nonis will be fired.

That's awful, but the way it is presented seems kind of dishonest to me.

That $51.5 million is spread out over several years, where the $51M cap floor is a one year figure. I don't see what one has to do with the other, really.

What other franchise would allow their management to piss away $51.5 million dollars and keep their job though?

[ATLTimekeeper]

Thanks.

From Elliot Friedman

5. The salary cap floor is $51M. Right now, Toronto is committed to spending almost $51.5 million on players who are not in their NHL lineup. They are Nathan Horton ($26 million, won’t play again), Mikhail Grabovski $14.3 million (compliance buyout), Tim Gleason $5.3 million (regular buyout), Mike Komisarek $2.3 million (compliance buyout), Colton Orr $925,000 (in AHL), Matt Frattin $800,000 (in AHL), Frazer McLaren $700,000 (in AHL), Troy Bodie $600,000 (in AHL), Carl Gunnarsson $400,000 (retained salary in trade) and Daniel Winnik, approximately $160,000 (retained salary in trade).

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/30-thoughts-p-k-subban-now-another-level/

And they were trying hard to dump Bozak. The buzz at the deadline was that they were being asked to retain 3 mill per year on Phaneuf's deal. Nonis will be fired.

That's awful, but the way it is presented seems kind of dishonest to me.

That $51.5 million is spread out over several years, where the $51M cap floor is a one year figure. I don't see what one has to do with the other, really.

What other franchise would allow their management to piss away $51.5 million dollars and keep their job though?

I think that's the point. The cap floor was just a form of perspective. Anyway, now we're back to playing all these bad contracts they couldn't move at the deadline, giving us meaningless wins that hurt our chances at McDavid.