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Cap analysis: good news/bad news

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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#41 » by YogiStewart » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:02 pm

YogiStewart wrote:.

past history's shown that smart teams leave some wiggle room cap-wise in case of injuries, etc. signing Franson for $1.9 million for 1 year leaves the LEafs with zero cap space. they will have to do what chicago did during the off season - cap fire sale - just to make room for a call up.

still amazed how a certain poster thinks i'm a complete idiot when i've nailed the last 2 RFA signings.
Franson at $2 mil/1 year, announced today.

This likely means Reilly won't make the team. I haven't seen enough of him in pre-season, but i think it is a shame that he won't get a few games with the club. sounds like he's playing well and he'd make some guys expendable. again, Leafs problem is too many mid-level talent D-men, not enough studs. I like Gunnarson, but if you think Reilly's NHL ready, you trade Gunnarson for future talent so you can have a higher-ceiling D man in the line-up now and possibly get a better return.

that Liles contract looks so freaking horrible now...do not see how it is moved.

p.s. next year, the Leafs are in serious doodoo. if I were Nonnis, I'd be shopping Phaneuf so bloody hard right now. get ANYTHING back for him, have Reilly in the line-up and enjoy the cap freedom of getting rid of him. if you look at the talent that will likely walk next year, the Leafs may be in serious trouble. cap freedom only assures that you overpay for UFAs.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#42 » by whysoserious » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:19 pm

I'm okay with sending Reilly down. He may have earned a few games but a few games here and there aren't that big of a deal. He wasn't going to play the entire year here anyways.

This year has to be about making the playoffs again for more experience for Kadri, Gardiner and a few others.

The secondary goal though throughout the year has to be getting rid of some of these contracts in spite of any team success that we enjoy. Even if somehow Bernier and Reimer are keeping us in a position to be a playoff team, Liles, Gunnarson, Phaneuf should all be in the market. I'd even argue that a guy like Bozak should be on the market despite just signing him long-term.

Liles was such a bad signing, the guy was coming off an injury and there was no need to sign him long term but Burke stepped in handed him that contract and IIRC he signed him before he even came back off the injury list.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#43 » by SharoneWright » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:32 pm

Yogi is right about Bozak's salary of course,, but the reason it was done was to lock up Kessel's buddy. Nonis needs Kessel back and is pulling out all the stops. Kinda like when the Raps went out and got Milt Palacio... (gulp)

Franson gets his arbitration next year. LOTS of guys to sign next year. Cap goes up sure, but next year is really going to test the mettle of our GM. There will also be a little extra room because the Tucker/Armstrong/Scrivens/Frattin buyouts/take backs also come off the books. Bottom line, Job1 remains to trade Liles. If that's impossible, they may end up having to lose a guy like Kulemin next year. Maybe even Reimer.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#44 » by Waylon Mercy » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:30 pm

Any of you guys interested in doing a hockey pool I've got a league open with a few spots open
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#45 » by Homer Jay » Fri Sep 27, 2013 1:23 am

Waylon Mercy wrote:Any of you guys interested in doing a hockey pool I've got a league open with a few spots open



you can pm me, Waylon.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#46 » by Mohanad » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:22 am

You have to love the desperation quoting yourself and padding yourself on the back for the two most predictable signings of the off season and write it off as - nailed it! Way to go off on a limb..

As far as Phaneuf is concerned, he just came off a season where he finished top 10 in TOI and points for defensemen, let's move him for anything... sometimes I wonder.

On the topic of Franson: couldn't be happier that he's back.

Hope to see more of Gardiner and Franson pairing that worked well in the playoffs. Cody put together 6 points in 7 games as well

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xp2mkbByzI[/youtube]

Since it's a 1 year deal, Franson wont be a UFA after this season (RFA with arbitration):
http://www.capgeek.com/player/1071

Players who are on 1 year deals have to wait until January to sign an extension.

From the article 50.5 (f) of the CBA:

(iv) A Player who is party to a one-year SPC may not enter into an "extension"
of such SPC prior to January 1 of the League Year covered by such SPC.

I can live with Franson, Raymond, and Ranger for 4 million this season. Kudos to Nonis

Lots of promise on the blueline in the coming years:
Rielly, Percy, MacWilliam, Granberg.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#47 » by Mohanad » Fri Sep 27, 2013 5:46 am

whysoserious wrote:I have to agree with Yogi when he talks about the money spent by this team on certain players.

Is Bozak a top 6 forward? Maybe although he's more of a borderline 2nd line, 3rd line center. His stats are inflated, Matt Stajan gets thrown on the first line with some skilled guys and his stats will go up. Same is true for a guy like Bozak. This is not a knock on a player like Bozak, but you're paying him big money like he's a definite top guy and he simply is not. This is poor management of the cap. Raymond is not a top line C either, but he's also a guy that's more of a 3rd line center than can be bumped up to your second line. Only difference is he's making 1 million as opposed to 5. There's reasons why he's getting so little (injuries and what not the past few years). Ideally, he's probably making between 2-3 million. Bozak, being healthy, slighly younger and overall should probably make slightly more but not 5 million and not for that length. It's just poor management.



This is incorrect.

Bozak is not making 5 million a year. He's signed for 4.2 (I don't know where this 1 vs. 5 came from) Aside from Kadri, he is making the least out of any of Toronto's top 6 forwards and he's centering the first line. Mason Raymond is not a center.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#48 » by whysoserious » Fri Sep 27, 2013 12:15 pm

Mohanad wrote:This is incorrect.

Bozak is not making 5 million a year. He's signed for 4.2 (I don't know where this 1 vs. 5 came from) Aside from Kadri, he is making the least out of any of Toronto's top 6 forwards and he's centering the first line. Mason Raymond is not a center.


My apologies on the 5 million quote. Playing on the top line and being a first line center are two different things. Tyler Bozak is simply not a first line Center and star player. The guy is a good player. So what if he's making the least of our top 6 forwards, that just shows even moreso how poorly the Leafs have managed their payroll structure considering out of their top 6 currently only one stands out as a STAR player in Kessel, yet we're paying a bunch of guys above that. Same thing goes for the defensemen. The ideal role for a Tyler Bozak is to be that 2nd line C, just cause he plays on the first line is not some sort of justification for who he is as a player.

Tyler Bozak would rank 44th among C for points last year, that's your first line C playing with Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupol. Now NHL.com's stats are a bit messed up cause when I sort by position they also list Kessel as a C for some reason. But the point stands, he's not a first line C, yet 'WE HAD TO SIGN HIM TO A 5 YEAR DEAL"? How does that make any sense. The Leafs have managed their cap horribly, there is absolutely no way to deny that fact. At almost every position they've overpaid and gotten little value in return since the cap era began. Bozaks deal is just another example along with countless other examples.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#49 » by YogiStewart » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:43 am

whysoserious wrote:
Mohanad wrote:This is incorrect.

Bozak is not making 5 million a year. He's signed for 4.2 (I don't know where this 1 vs. 5 came from) Aside from Kadri, he is making the least out of any of Toronto's top 6 forwards and he's centering the first line. Mason Raymond is not a center.


My apologies on the 5 million quote. Playing on the top line and being a first line center are two different things. Tyler Bozak is simply not a first line Center and star player. The guy is a good player. So what if he's making the least of our top 6 forwards, that just shows even moreso how poorly the Leafs have managed their payroll structure considering out of their top 6 currently only one stands out as a STAR player in Kessel, yet we're paying a bunch of guys above that. Same thing goes for the defensemen. The ideal role for a Tyler Bozak is to be that 2nd line C, just cause he plays on the first line is not some sort of justification for who he is as a player.

Tyler Bozak would rank 44th among C for points last year, that's your first line C playing with Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupol. Now NHL.com's stats are a bit messed up cause when I sort by position they also list Kessel as a C for some reason. But the point stands, he's not a first line C, yet 'WE HAD TO SIGN HIM TO A 5 YEAR DEAL"? How does that make any sense. The Leafs have managed their cap horribly, there is absolutely no way to deny that fact. At almost every position they've overpaid and gotten little value in return since the cap era began. Bozaks deal is just another example along with countless other examples.


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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#50 » by Mohanad » Sat Sep 28, 2013 2:58 am

whysoserious wrote:
Mohanad wrote:This is incorrect.

Bozak is not making 5 million a year. He's signed for 4.2 (I don't know where this 1 vs. 5 came from) Aside from Kadri, he is making the least out of any of Toronto's top 6 forwards and he's centering the first line. Mason Raymond is not a center.


My apologies on the 5 million quote. Playing on the top line and being a first line center are two different things. Tyler Bozak is simply not a first line Center and star player. The guy is a good player. So what if he's making the least of our top 6 forwards, that just shows even moreso how poorly the Leafs have managed their payroll structure considering out of their top 6 currently only one stands out as a STAR player in Kessel, yet we're paying a bunch of guys above that. Same thing goes for the defensemen. The ideal role for a Tyler Bozak is to be that 2nd line C, just cause he plays on the first line is not some sort of justification for who he is as a player.

Tyler Bozak would rank 44th among C for points last year, that's your first line C playing with Phil Kessel and Joffrey Lupol. Now NHL.com's stats are a bit messed up cause when I sort by position they also list Kessel as a C for some reason. But the point stands, he's not a first line C, yet 'WE HAD TO SIGN HIM TO A 5 YEAR DEAL"? How does that make any sense. The Leafs have managed their cap horribly, there is absolutely no way to deny that fact. At almost every position they've overpaid and gotten little value in return since the cap era began. Bozaks deal is just another example along with countless other examples.


Yes. Tyler is not a first line center (he'd probably rank 27-30 there) but he works in other ways - he's one of the Leafs top defensive forwards, key part of the PK, took 1,063 faceoffs (second-most in the NHL) last season and finished in the top 15 with a 52.6 winning percentage. He didn't play much with Lupul last season (injured for most of the year and he played with Kadri after) Not in love with Bozak, but if he can put up 50+ points and play a 200ft game, I can live with him.

The Leafs aren't in a perfect cap situation (no team really is) but Nonis (surprisingly) has done well with the cap the past few weeks getting key deals done. We have about 2 mill in buyouts off the books, the cap is increasing, and I see Kuli off the books giving way to one of our prospects. Something will have to get done with Liles (3 more years at 3.87m is atrocious)
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#51 » by Brew666 » Tue Oct 1, 2013 2:13 pm

Personally, I think Nonis deserves some props for getting everyone signed this year. I didn't think he could do it and was expecting a key piece to missing part of the season [Kadri or Franson] but he got everyone in under the cap and on paper this team is better than last year [although more competitive division too].

Next year looks like a complete sh*t storm but a lot can in between now and then. All those expiring contracts, I'm sure some will get moved. But that's next year. Right now Nonis is deserving of the nickname Cap N Crunch in my books.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#52 » by SharoneWright » Tue Oct 1, 2013 3:29 pm

Kessel: 64M/8yr extension.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#53 » by whysoserious » Tue Oct 1, 2013 3:56 pm

SharoneWright wrote:Kessel: 64M/8yr extension.


That is one ugly contract along with countless other ones. Wait till we resign Dion too now.

This is the problem the Leafs have, because you've handed out big money deals to guys like Bozak and Clarkson, you've got absolutely no leverage against Kessels agent to say 8 mill a season is too much and in our structure he's worth this much. It's a snowball effect on all the contracts.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#54 » by The_Hater » Tue Oct 1, 2013 10:50 pm

So is Bryan Colangelo still doling out contracts for MLSE? It certainly seems that way.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#55 » by TheAlchemist » Wed Oct 2, 2013 12:25 am

You have to pay Kessel. You can't just let the guy walk out and he's not going to accept anything lower then what his deal was. I'm pretty sure someone would of paid 2 million more a year, it's the NHL , it happens.

The Clarckson deal was the one that buried us for good. Lupul deal looks horrible too, if he gets injured more we're so damn screwed.

And we still need a #1 centre. Although I do see Kadri developing into a solid #1 centre in the future, It would be nice to parlay a winger or two for a solid star/superstar centre. I'd rather that then have wingers.

Vans -Bozak-Kessel
Lupul Kadri Clarcksy

is definitely not shabby for a top 6. But I'd rather an upgrade to Bozak. Also I'm sick and tired of Phaneuf, he is horrible.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#56 » by whysoserious » Wed Oct 2, 2013 1:21 am

In the grand scheme of things, yes Kessel's deal is probably in line with where his production is and his age leading to UFA status. I don't like the length and would have liked it more had it been around 7 mill per but no biggie really. As you said though it's the combination of other deals that puts all the pieces together to show how horribly the cap has been managed. I mean we're basically at the cap with this current group and lack a true number one center. How many capped teams are in that position?

We're paying too many guys to go away or there's many d-men overpaid and too many guys that are ideally 2nd/3rd line type players but are severely overpaid. No real value contracts like Mason Raymond on the books overall.
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#57 » by Merit » Tue Oct 8, 2013 12:58 am

What about packaging Liles + expendable youth for Statsny?
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Re: Cap analysis: good news/bad news 

Post#58 » by Brew666 » Wed Oct 16, 2013 4:15 pm

Merit wrote:What about packaging Liles + expendable youth for Statsny?


Stastny has a cap hit of $6.6 [we'd have to send more than Liles over to make it work], he's a FA at the end of the year and he hasn't improved in 3 years or so. I'd take Bozak over him right now.

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