Kessel: $8 mil/year for 8 years

[YogiStewart]

Being reported by Darren Dregger.
Nonis delayed a radio interview from 9 Am until noon.
stay tuned.

*edit* that's more than Malkin and Zetterberg get. yikes.
while it is only $1 mil/year difference, i would have maxed him out at $7 mil/year. dude has a history of being invisible in big games (although he did show up for the playoffs last year)

[Brew666]

I'm good with the deal. He would've got $8 mill from someone and having him walk for nothing/or reduced value would've been brutal for the franchise.

I expected him to get somewhere between 7-8 million/year and yeah it's on the high end of the scale but better to get it done now and avoid the media circus it would've became this year. Definitely not the worst contract on the Leafs roster.

Malkin is making more, his cap hit is $8.7/year right now and then next year it's going up to $9.5/year for 8 years. Kessel will have the 8th highest salary in the league and I expect him to be eventually be leap frogged by other players once they sign new contracts.

I don't think Zetterberg's contract is a good comparable either. He was 28 when he signed a 12 year contract that avg's 6+/year. It's a contract that circumvents the CBA [last 2 years he's making 1 mill/year and 2018-19 he's making 3.35 mill/year] and he's not going to be worth the cap hit in his latter years. Security and length of the contract were definitely larger variables in Zetterberg's case . Kessel's contract brings him up to 33 and if he can play at a consistent level similar to how he's played up to this point, then he's worth it.

And I don't understand why he has this rep of being invisible in big games. He's averaging almost a point a game in playoffs and has 13 goals in 22 games total. He wasn't invisible when playing for Boston in the playoffs [he had a smaller role on the team]. The only time I can think of him being invisible in big games was at the Olympics in Vancouver and he was 22 at the time?

[CPT]

Can't say I was stoked to see this news.

He was going to get something like this if he hit the market, but as we're finding out, every dollar counts under this cap system, so even something like 7-7.5 over the same term would have been a lot better.

Maybe this signing doesn't make it more or less true than it ever was, but to me, this says Phil Kessel is going to be our best player for most of the next 8 years, and I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.

There are worse contracts out there, but that doesn't mean this is a good move.

[Brew666]

Every dollar does count but I think moving forward this is what it's going to cost for a player of his caliber, on the higher end of the scale but I'd say it's market value. He's proven himself to be a consistent all-star [I don't consider him a superstar and there are maybe 3-4 stars in the league to my standards] and I definitely take more issue with the Bozak, Clarkson, even Bernier deals. None of them have played at a consistent basis yet and are still relatively unknown commodities.

I like the deal is b/c he's still young [yet to reach potential] and has proven on a consistent level that he's an elite player.

I don't know if there really is a better alternative either. Hold a hard line and deal him for less value b/c he's in his final year of a contract? Wait and see how the year plays out and then work on a contract? Like I said, I'm glad it's done before the season started b/c it would've become a circus with the media.

[YogiStewart]

the no-trade clause sucks.
also, he's a good player because he's fast. he ain't gonna get any faster once he's 30 and beyond.
it's a lose-lose contract, IMO. you don't want his talent to walk and you know another club would have signed him for the exact same deal. if he was 1-2 years younger? it's less painful. but all he needs in a knee or hip or back injury (like Mogilny or Bure) and he's completely useless. or...he needs father time to piss on his head...which may happen in 3-4 years.

he's also a star but he's not a superstar. he's a player i'd love to have on my team but i'd never choose him as a player to build my team around. he's dynamic, but one-directional dynamic. such a conundrum. not sure if the deal is good or not. it certainly has potential to be awful, but i'm not as optimistic as Brew666. these stupid 8 year contracts are so bloody frustrating. they're ruining the league.

*edit* not sure if this breakdown makes it a better or worse signing.

@DavidAlter590
Kessel breakdown, 10m, 10m, 9m, 9m, 7m, 7m, 6m, 6m. Pay for each year.

basically, see the other thread about next year's cap situation. the leafs at against the cap this year. Kessel gets $4 mil more next year, which may be all of what the cap's increasing. they either sign Phaneuf for less (which he won't take) or you're seeing a team with little addition of talent for the next few seasons (the UFAs they lose next year won't allow huge talent signings. also, the Leafs farm system is really thin on forwards)

[The_Hater]

Awful contract. Not as bad as the Clarkson deal but close. Most people seem focused on the $8 million per season but as with most contracts that's not where the negative focus belongs.

The biggest problem is the 8 year deal. Most star players are either one bad injury or one lost half step due to wear and tear away from either the 3rd line or the AHL and Kessel is no different. The 2nd biggest issue if the no-trade clause. If this turns into a mistake sooner rather than later, that leaves the Leafs with no out from the deal.

[whysoserious]

As you said Hater, I have no idea why this team continues to hand out no-trade clauses after constantly being burned by them. Even if you believe Kessel is gonna be here the entire team, an 8 year deal should never come with a no-trade. Who knows where this team will be at the back end or halfway point of that contract, you want as much flexibility as possible in a cap world. This organization is awfully stupid sometimes when it comes to stuff like this.

[Mohanad]

basically, see the other thread about next year's cap situation. the leafs at against the cap this year. Kessel gets $4 mil more next year, which may be all of what the cap's increasing. they either sign Phaneuf for less (which he won't take) or you're seeing a team with little addition of talent for the next few seasons (the UFAs they lose next year won't allow huge talent signings. also, the Leafs farm system is really thin on forwards)

This is false - Kessel's pay upgrade on his new deal is 2.6 million next year and the Leafs are off the books with 2.45 million next season with Tucker/Armstrongs buyouts and Scrivens retained salary. Unless you cough up a contract like the one Kessel signed, you wont see "huge talent signings" in free agency. Kessel would have hit the open market at age 26, younger than either Ilya Kovalchuk or Zach Parise, who set massive benchmarks.

[The_Hater]

Kessel would have hit the open market at age 26, younger than either Ilya Kovalchuk or Zach Parise, who set massive benchmarks.

But not nearly as coveted as either of the players you mention above. Kovy was/is one of the 3-4 most gifted offensive players in the league (much higher skill level than Kessel by almost any measure) and is a huge, physical player that plays with a mean streak. He was even a solid 2 way player that killed penalties which is why he's led all NHL forwards in ice time for each of the last 4 seasons. Coaches could play him in any situation.

Parise is much closer in terms of size and skill but he's one of the hardest working players in the league, he plays both ends and never floats while still having high offensive skill just like Kessel. Ask 30 GM's which player they'd rather have and I guarantee you all 30 would pick Parise.

Kessel is great skater and shooter/scorer no doubt but the rest of his skills, including playmaking, probably all rank as below average or worse. Plus his poor defensive skill and inability to win battles for the puck mean that he's rarely trusted by his coaches in the closing minutes of games where his team has a lead. The list of 'superstars' that are in this group is very small and Kessel is now being paid like a superstar.

Going to battle with Phil Kessel as your best player is a very risky proposition IMO.

[whysoserious]

I agree with what you're saying Hater, but regardless, had Kessel hit the market, he likely would have got paid exactly what we paid him if not more.

The problem for the Leafs is they don't have sufficient elite talent around him to maximize him. Again, paying Kessel 8 million per is not so bad in the grand scheme of things. It's the other overpaid players that limit you from getting more high end talent to play with Kessel.

He's basically being put in the position Sundin was in, and Sundin was a far superior player to Kessel.

[The_Hater]

I agree with what you're saying Hater, but regardless, had Kessel hit the market, he likely would have got paid exactly what we paid him if not more.

Likely, yes but UFA's are routinely given the worst contracts not only in the NHL but every major team sport. That's just the way the league's have structured their systems. These are the Gomez, Redden, Yashin, LeCavalier, Briere, DiPietro, Luongo type deals. Brad Richards has now joined that list. All star players when they sign them but the contracts quickly become huge albatross's mainly due to the length of the the deals. Even Kovalchuk's deal was virtually untradeable (even though he was only getting $6.6 per season) due to it's length and he's a much better player then Kessel.

These contracts look great on the front page of the sports section during the off-season and create fan interest and excitement but when do they ever work out for that team? How good was Minnesota last season with Parise and Suter? How about the Rangers with Gomez, Drury, Redden and many others?

Even worse Kessel isn't a free-agent yet, this is an extension. So what did Kessel give back to the Leafs for getting financial security 1 season earlier than necessary? Money? No way. Shorter contract? Nope. He even got a no trade clause out of it. I guess this shouldn't be surprising after watching the contracts that Nonis negotiated with Bozak and Clarkson. Just shortsighted. One season into his reign and he already looks like a desperate GM who's job future hinges on the 2013-14 season which makes no sense whatsoever considering he just signed a 5 year deal himself.

I believe that sometimes you have to look at an alternative in these cases. Trade the player before you're forced to cough up this kind of money because 98% of the time ends up biting you in the ass. The money becomes even worse when there's a salary cap place. But GM's are only worried about their job today, not 5 years down the road and sports fans are typically focused on the short term not the long term so these contracts will continue to happen. I can't believe how many Leaf fans think they just had a great off season but that's what happens when you haven't had much success for a long time.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Kessel is great skater and shooter/scorer no doubt but the rest of his skills, including playmaking, probably all rank as below average or worse. Plus his poor defensive skill and inability to win battles for the puck mean that he's rarely trusted by his coaches in the closing minutes of games where his team has a lead. The list of 'superstars' that are in this group is very small and Kessel is now being paid like a superstar.

Going to battle with Phil Kessel as your best player is a very risky proposition IMO.

Top 15 in assists last year, top 21 the year before. This claim is most definitely false.

[mrsocko]

He was a -3 last year. I would think that you would want to pay 8 million to a player who makes your team better when he's on the ice instead of worse but hey that's just me!

I think Phaneuf is gone(-4). You can get alot of good young players for him if you trade him to a team that doesn't use stats.

[Mohanad]

Kessel would have hit the open market at age 26, younger than either Ilya Kovalchuk or Zach Parise, who set massive benchmarks.

But not nearly as coveted as either of the players you mention above. Kovy was/is one of the 3-4 most gifted offensive players in the league (much higher skill level than Kessel by almost any measure) and is a huge, physical player that plays with a mean streak. He was even a solid 2 way player that killed penalties which is why he's led all NHL forwards in ice time for each of the last 4 seasons. Coaches could play him in any situation.

Parise is much closer in terms of size and skill but he's one of the hardest working players in the league, he plays both ends and never floats while still having high offensive skill just like Kessel. Ask 30 GM's which player they'd rather have and I guarantee you all 30 would pick Parise.

Kessel is great skater and shooter/scorer no doubt but the rest of his skills, including playmaking, probably all rank as below average or worse. Plus his poor defensive skill and inability to win battles for the puck mean that he's rarely trusted by his coaches in the closing minutes of games where his team has a lead. The list of 'superstars' that are in this group is very small and Kessel is now being paid like a superstar.

Going to battle with Phil Kessel as your best player is a very risky proposition IMO.

Ask all 30 teams which player they would rather have? Kessel is below average playmaker? Kessel being your best player is a risky proposition? Good grief this is infuriating to read.

Zach Parisie signed a 13 year deal at nearly a 100 million at 28 years old. Kessel is 26 and had 5 straight seasons with 30+ goals (if you include the shortened season which he was well on his way to shattering) and is a PPG player in the playoffs that finished in the top 10 in scoring the past two years. That goes along side finishing top 15-20 in helpers in the past 2 seasons.. not bad for a player that is "below average" or "worse" play making ability. You want durability? Kessel hasn't missed a game in the past 3 seasons.

Parise was invincible in the playoffs against the Hawks meanwhile Kessel had two game winning goals and netted 6 points in 7 games while being the best player on the young Leaf teams that was less than a minute away from eliminating the eastern conference champions. Some "shaky proposition"...

Let's look at their 2 most recent seasons:

Parise: 11-12 Goals: 31 Assists: 36 Points: 69
Kessel: 11-12 Goals: 32 Assistss: 45 Points: 82

Parise: 12-13 Goals: 18 Assists: 20 Points: 38
Kessel: 12-13 Goals: 20 Assists: 32 Points: 52

The most recent playoffs:
Parise 12-13
Games played: 5
Goals: 1
Assists 0
Points: 1
+/- -7
Average Ice time: 21:24

Kessel 12-13
Games played: 7
Goals: 4 (2GWG)
Assists: 2
Points: 6
+/- +3
Average Ice time: 18:29

Parise(29): 13 years 98 million
Kessel(26): 8 years 64 million

But not nearly as coveted as either of the players you mention above

Ask 30 GM's which player they'd rather have and I guarantee you all 30 would pick Parise.

**** outta here...

[The_Hater]

He was a -3 last year. I would think that you would want to pay 8 million to a player who makes your team better when he's on the ice instead of worse but hey that's just me!

I think Phaneuf is gone(-4). You can get alot of good young players for him if you trade him to a team that doesn't use stats.

His Plus-minus have never been pretty in Toronto but plus/minus is probably the most overrated stat out there.

Jason Pominville was just signed for $28/5. He's a couple of years older than Kessel, close but a bit behind Kessel offensively but much better defensively. Overall impact is probably similar or similar enough to group them together.

To me this just strikes home how terrible the Kessel contract is. He's being paid with the Crosby's the Ovechkin's and the Malkin's unfortunately he's not on that level. He's on Pominville's level and that contract is significantly smaller in both annual $ and years.

[The_Hater]

**** outta here...

I couldn't remember for the life of me why I previously had you on ignore? Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Nice that picked just one season to compare and ignored the rest as well as their overall games. Well done. Do you want to take a guess who has more goals and more points over the past 6 seasons combined? 5 seasons? 4 seasons? Pretty sure you know the answer to all of these questions without looking. But sure, let's just look at Kessel's career best season compare it to Parise's weakest season and call it a day.

Maybe next you can explain how Kessel is a better defensive player, better penalty killer and better in the corners and plays with more effort than Parise too? I'd tell you that I'm waiting for that argument but to be truthful, I won't be reading it.

[Mohanad]

**** outta here...

I couldn't remember for the life of me why I previously had you on ignore? Thanks for clarifying that for me.

Nice that picked just one season to compare and ignored the rest as well as their overall games. Well done. Do you want to take a guess who has more goals and more points over the past 6 seasons combined? 5 seasons? 4 seasons? Pretty sure you know the answer to all of these questions without looking. But sure, let's just look at Kessel's career best season compare it to Parise's weakest season and call it a day.

Maybe next you can explain how Kessel is a better defensive player, better penalty killer and better in the corners and plays with more effort than Parise too? I'd tell you that I'm waiting for that argument but to be truthful, I won't be reading it.

Yikes...now you want to act arrogant?

I love these kind of posts - you provide false facts, can't back up your arguments, make horrid claims, and your reply "I'm gonna have you on ignore". Good grief..

Parise's playoff career has been subbar at best. Let's see, past couple of seasons Kessel had more goals, assists, points, was a better playoff performer, but Kessel is nowhere near as coveted...

How is this "one season"?

Let's look at their 2 most recent seasons:

Parise: 11-12 Goals: 31 Assists: 36 Points: 69
Kessel: 11-12 Goals: 32 Assistss: 45 Points: 82

Parise: 12-13 Goals: 18 Assists: 20 Points: 38
Kessel: 12-13 Goals: 20 Assists: 32 Points: 52

The most recent playoffs:
Parise 12-13
Games played: 5
Goals: 1
Assists 0
Points: 1
+/- -7
Average Ice time: 21:24

Kessel 12-13
Games played: 7
Goals: 4 (2GWG)
Assists: 2
Points: 6
+/- +3
Average Ice time: 18:29

Keep zeroing in on Kessel's past +/- all you want, Kessel has been playing in front of very, very poor goaltending in Toronto (Vesa Toskala, Curtis Joseph, Jonas Gustavsson to name a few). In his first year as a Maple Leaf he saw a 52 point drop off from the On-Ice Sv% he saw the year before in Boston

Offensively gifted players are not great in their own zone (obviously Datsyuk is an exception) Phil isn't close to being the worst defensively in the small group of point-per-game forwards that we have this year. A lot of teams shelter their top scorers as much as they do, Kessel gets thrown to the wolves and still performs. What kind of argument is Parise plays with "more effort!"

Don't make these claims:

Kessel is great skater and shooter/scorer no doubt but the rest of his skills, including playmaking

But not nearly as coveted as either of the players you mention above

Ask 30 GM's which player they'd rather have and I guarantee you all 30 would pick Parise

...and not back anything up with player breakdown or stats. Do yourself a favor and research a topic before posting

But sure, let's just look at Kessel's career best season compare it to Parise's weakest season and call it a day.

Kessel is 3 years younger, out performed him the past 2 seasons and the playoffs.

Parise(29): 13 years 98 million
Kessel(26): 8 years 64 million

And who's been having more upside in their career lately?

[ATLTimekeeper]

His Plus-minus have never been pretty in Toronto but plus/minus is probably the most overrated stat out there.

Jason Pominville was just signed for $28/5. He's a couple of years older than Kessel, close but a bit behind Kessel offensively but much better defensively. Overall impact is probably similar or similar enough to group them together.

To me this just strikes home how terrible the Kessel contract is. He's being paid with the Crosby's the Ovechkin's and the Malkin's unfortunately he's not on that level. He's on Pominville's level and that contract is significantly smaller in both annual $ and years.

Your analysis is a little wonky. Pominville is 5 years older than Phil Kessel, not "a couple." That's a big difference in earning potential. Basically, one player is being paid a premium for his prime years, the other is going to be 31 in November. Pominville has been a ppg player once in his career (7 seasons ago). Kessel has been a ppg player the past two seasons. I think your criticism also doesn't account for what Kessel means to the Maple Leafs, and what it would cost to replace him. I'd encourage you to go through capgeek and try and find a UFA better than Kessel in his prime that would be had for cheaper/shorter term. Thomas Vanek is really the only player that comes close, and he'll be a 30 year old UFA. They could have weighed their options and risked letting him walk like New Jersey did with Parise, but they have more than enough reason to be encouraged by Phil's consistency and development to lock him up. Also, the Leafs are one of the young up and coming teams in the league. I don't think it's such a good idea to risk losing such an important piece for the sake of a few million dollars or years.

[mrsocko]

His Plus-minus have never been pretty in Toronto but plus/minus is probably the most overrated stat out there.

It's the most overratd sta until you realize he's the only scorer in the top 10 thats in the negative. Saw him give extra effort on D in the playoffs when it mattered makng some stand out plays. To bad those are suprising moments. To bad he couldn't bring that effort all the time. When your best player dogs it on D it does not set a good example for everyone else.

On the other hand Wendel gave 110% on every play and averaged 50 game a season cause he was injured all the time.

[The_Hater]

His Plus-minus have never been pretty in Toronto but plus/minus is probably the most overrated stat out there.

Jason Pominville was just signed for $28/5. He's a couple of years older than Kessel, close but a bit behind Kessel offensively but much better defensively. Overall impact is probably similar or similar enough to group them together.

To me this just strikes home how terrible the Kessel contract is. He's being paid with the Crosby's the Ovechkin's and the Malkin's unfortunately he's not on that level. He's on Pominville's level and that contract is significantly smaller in both annual $ and years.

Your analysis is a little wonky. Pominville is 5 years older than Phil Kessel, not "a couple." That's a big difference in earning potential. Basically, one player is being paid a premium for his prime years, the other is going to be 31 in November. Pominville has been a ppg player once in his career (7 seasons ago). Kessel has been a ppg player the past two seasons. I think your criticism also doesn't account for what Kessel means to the Maple Leafs, and what it would cost to replace him. I'd encourage you to go through capgeek and try and find a UFA better than Kessel in his prime that would be had for cheaper/shorter term. Thomas Vanek is really the only player that comes close, and he'll be a 30 year old UFA. They could have weighed their options and risked letting him walk like New Jersey did with Parise, but they have more than enough reason to be encouraged by Phil's consistency and development to lock him up. Also, the Leafs are one of the young up and coming teams in the league. I don't think it's such a good idea to risk losing such an important piece for the sake of a few million dollars or years.

I stated Kessel was a better offensive player in my post but the gap between them isn't huge either. The age gap is a good point however, for some reason I thought they were only 3 years apart. That does make a huge difference.

I guess our opinions on what Kessel means to the Leafs differ as I think Kessel is one-dimensional and having him as one of the leaders on the team is a huge reason for the teams recent lack of success. Also I never recommended losing Kessel for nothing, I recommended trading him instead of overpaying him. That aside, if the plan was to keep him I think Nonis did a terrible job with the negotiations. As my original post mentioned it's not the $8 million, it's the 8 year and the no trade clause that are the problems.

I don't even think it's a question of if this contract ends up looking really bad, just a question of when. Of course the same thing can be said about the Clarkson deal too.