Around the nba part 7

[Rasho Brezec]

He must see something flawed in Lin's play that we don't.

[Knicks_Fan2]

It wasn't McHale, it was Harden and it's understandable.

So Harden tells the team who handles the ball throughout the game. Harden tells Lin to sit down in the 4th and plays Beverley instead. Got it.

Harden will dominate the ball--he's the best player and he's fantastic at it. Any coach would have him do that. With respect to the latter, that is on McHale but I'm pretty certain it's (i) for defense--pls see the block Beverly had in the game against the Spurs and (ii) against the magic McHale had the bench in in a blowout.

[j4remi]

He must see something flawed in Lin's play that we don't.

Yeah...I've never been a fan of his coaching, so I don't give him much benefit, but I think it's clear that he's picked out certain weaknesses to a point where I've seen him put TD and Beverly in key moments over Lin. Defense and jumper are my guesses, but even when Lin's on the court he doesn't get enough touches imo.

[kakaman]

It wasn't McHale, it was Harden and it's understandable.

So Harden tells the team who handles the ball throughout the game. Harden tells Lin to sit down in the 4th and plays Beverley instead. Got it.

Harden will dominate the ball--he's the best player and he's fantastic at it. Any coach would have him do that. With respect to the latter, that is on McHale but I'm pretty certain it's (i) for defense--pls see the block Beverly had in the game against the Spurs and (ii) against the magic McHale had the bench in in a blowout.

It doesn't make sense for Harden to dominate the ball because he's a better spot up shooter than Lin is. Of all the teams in the NBA, the only ones where the PG does not run the offense are:

Houston: widely seen as a mistake, but Harden is a gifted scorer, so while not the most ideal situation, it's workable
Miami: LBJ, nuff said
LA: Jury is still out. I think Nash should run the offense, but hey, Kobe does what he wants

NY had the whole point forward experiment, we all know how that went

Also to the defense point, in almost every advanced metric Lin is a better defender. He's a bigger body, he plugs holes better, he's a better iso and team defender. He gambles a lot, which he needs to get better at, but it seems to be more of a team strategy than anything. Beverley is a better "eye test" defender, he can swing his arms wildly and try to make big plays, but he's really average defensively with limited offensive capabilities. Reminds me of Toney Douglas actually...

[K_ick_God]

Kidd and Avery have always been known as floor generals, they didn't have to score to be successful.

This is mostly false.

Anyway, it's particularly strange to make this argument and to say Felton is better for the Knicks than Lin. Lin sees the court better than Felton and would fit the definition of a pure PG much more than Felton does. So there are also problems of you guys contradicting yourselves.

[K_ick_God]

He must see something flawed in Lin's play that we don't.

Yeah, he sees flaws that even the scoreboard doesn't see. The Rockets' lead of about 15 evaporated with Lin out, and the Magic got to within 5 in the closing seconds.

Lin +21
Beverley -12

I'm sure there's an advanced stat that shows me that Beverley really was awesome last night and Lin was horrible.

This conversation has gone into the realm of theater of the absurd.

[GONYK]

Kidd and Avery have always been known as floor generals, they didn't have to score to be successful.

This is mostly false.

Anyway, it's particularly strange to make this argument and to say Felton is better for the Knicks than Lin. Lin sees the court better than Felton and would fit the definition of a pure PG much more than Felton does. So there are also problems of you guys contradicting yourselves.

Lin needs to dominate the ball to be effective.

That won't happen here.

[Thugger HBC]

Kidd and Avery have always been known as floor generals, they didn't have to score to be successful.

This is mostly false.

Anyway, it's particularly strange to make this argument and to say Felton is better for the Knicks than Lin. Lin sees the court better than Felton and would fit the definition of a pure PG much more than Felton does. So there are also problems of you guys contradicting yourselves.

I'm seriously done trying to compare Lin to current Knicks in a thread not designed as such.

This poutfest is beyond old, and no side gonna bend anyway.

And my statement is entirely true of Kidd and Avery.

if you dispute, provide proof.

[kakaman]

Kidd and Avery have always been known as floor generals, they didn't have to score to be successful.

This is mostly false.

Anyway, it's particularly strange to make this argument and to say Felton is better for the Knicks than Lin. Lin sees the court better than Felton and would fit the definition of a pure PG much more than Felton does. So there are also problems of you guys contradicting yourselves.

Lin needs to dominate the ball to be effective.

That won't happen here.

He dominates the ball so much that 6 players were in double figures last night. I guess dominating the ball means not standing in the corner to shoot a 3. The funny thing is, I'm expecting Lin to be like Mike Conley, except the coaching staff doesn't even trust him to do that. Ironically, Conley was considered a bust when he got drafted, but the team trusted in him that now he's developed into a really solid PG.

[Rasho Brezec]

Do I need to show Kidd and Rubio's rookie seasons again?

[frogfood]

And you just proved how great of a PG he is.

Because I showed you how he is literally the most inefficient scorer at the PG position it proves he is a great PG?

Good assist #s don't mean you're a good player. Not sure why that's so hard to understand.

[j4remi]

Do I need to show Kidd and Rubio's rookie seasons again?

You mean the season he where he was trash despite winning ROY?

Green font like crazy.

[K_ick_God]

Kidd and Avery have always been known as floor generals, they didn't have to score to be successful.

This is mostly false.

Anyway, it's particularly strange to make this argument and to say Felton is better for the Knicks than Lin. Lin sees the court better than Felton and would fit the definition of a pure PG much more than Felton does. So there are also problems of you guys contradicting yourselves.

I'm seriously done trying to compare Lin to current Knicks in a thread not designed as such.

This poutfest is beyond old, and no side gonna bend anyway.

And my statement is entirely true of Kidd and Avery.

if you dispute, provide proof.

Kidd averaged between 14.4 and 18.7 PPG in the several prime years of his career. What you're saying, I guess, is ... Even if Kidd averaged 10.4 PPG, he would be just as effective as he was as a PG? Of course that's not true.

Anyway (that's like my fifth Anyway), you must have the disparity in importance for a PG between playmaker and scorer much wider than it really is, I can only imagine. It's not like 95% playmaking and 5% scoring for PG's. It's something much more like 60-40. And even then, you can't do the 60% well if you're not a threat to score.

And again, if you do have that disparity so wide, then you would automatically think Lin is the better player than Felton 100 times out of 100. If you told both players they couldn't shoot a singe shot under any circumstances, and roll the ball out there, Lin would be far more likely to impact the game than Felton. So I really don't see your point.

[Rasho Brezec]

He dominates the ball so much that 6 players were in double figures last night.

His usage rate was 27.5 last night. That's good enough for top 20 usage rates in the NBA. If that's not ball dominant I don't know what is.

[GONYK]

This is mostly false.

Anyway, it's particularly strange to make this argument and to say Felton is better for the Knicks than Lin. Lin sees the court better than Felton and would fit the definition of a pure PG much more than Felton does. So there are also problems of you guys contradicting yourselves.

Lin needs to dominate the ball to be effective.

That won't happen here.

He dominates the ball so much that 6 players were in double figures last night. I guess dominating the ball means not standing in the corner to shoot a 3. The funny thing is, I'm expecting Lin to be like Mike Conley, except the coaching staff doesn't even trust him to do that. Ironically, Conley was considered a bust when he got drafted, but the team trusted in him that now he's developed into a really solid PG.

He had by far the highest usage rate last night, so yes, he dominated the ball

[K_ick_God]

He dominates the ball so much that 6 players were in double figures last night.

His usage rate was 27.5 last night. That's good enough for top 20 usage rates in the NBA. If that's not ball dominant I don't know what is.

Ball dominance is one of the defining features of the top playmakers and "real" PG's.

He dominates the ball and gets people good looks. He did that last night. The Rockets all got into the mix and on the board. That's good right?

[Thugger HBC]

KG, Kidd averaged alot when he shot alot....he wasn't efficient at it at all.

His strength has always been playmaking first, rebounding second, defense third.

Offense wasn't even on the pecking order, his points always reflected how many shots he took.

Take 10 shots score 10 points...inefficient.

[GONYK]

He dominates the ball so much that 6 players were in double figures last night.

His usage rate was 27.5 last night. That's good enough for top 20 usage rates in the NBA. If that's not ball dominant I don't know what is.

Ball dominance is one of the defining features of the top playmakers and "real" PG's.

He dominates the ball and gets people good looks. He did that last night. The Rockets all got into the mix and on the board. That's good right?

Aaaaand we've finally reached the inevitable place where bringing Jeremy Lin up in comparison to the Knicks leads.

Everyone and their mother knows we aren't going to run our offense through Jeremy Lin with Melo on the team.

Lin was not going to be our leader, and he was never going to become our Rondo. He was never going to be the player that all the others followed into battle. This is Melo's team, for better or worse.

[Thugger HBC]

He dominates the ball so much that 6 players were in double figures last night.

His usage rate was 27.5 last night. That's good enough for top 20 usage rates in the NBA. If that's not ball dominant I don't know what is.

Ball dominance is one of the defining features of the top playmakers and "real" PG's.

He dominates the ball and gets people good looks. He did that last night. The Rockets all got into the mix and on the board. That's good right?

KG, you do realize the Rockets shot rather poor overall right?

The boxscore wont reflect that, watching the game would.

[K_ick_God]

KG, you do realize the Rockets shot rather poor overall right?

The boxscore wont reflect that, watching the game would.

44.9%. That's not bad.