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Trade Felton

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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#331 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:15 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:Those numbers don't even show that Felton is a bad PnR defender, he's just not that good at it. .83 ppp is not bad at all when it comes to defending the PnR, but it's not great. Isolation, both Lin and Felton have given up the same number of FGM, Lin's just had 2 more FGA on him, again not a big enough sample size.

And the reason people determined that last year was because PGs that faced the Knicks would consistently have some their best games of the year with Lin defending them. That hasn't been the case this year with Felton.

The poster already admitted pages ago that the sample size was too small, which was why i asked for an actual gauge to use, which has hasn't provided.

All i see in this thread is opinions, but the only fact is 20-7 with Felton as the starter.

Side note...second reqeust, leave Lin out of the discussion.

I do not want this to become a Felton vs Lin thread.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#332 » by barborous » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:15 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:If you want to converse about Felton, cool.

But leave Lin out, he has nothing to do with this discussion.


Please. Besides, Lin is only playing significantly better over the past stretch of games. He started off atrociously and has been mediocre up until a couple games ago.

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:
knicksnyk wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:I'd like to see those metrics that show he's poor.

Using Kyrie as an example is totally poor, that kid can shoot from anywhere.



I posted his synergy defensive numbers. the kyrie thing was a total joke on the poster not on felton just ignore it

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:Those numbers don't even show that Felton is a bad PnR defender, he's just not that good at it. .83 ppp is not bad at all when it comes to defending the PnR, but it's not great. Isolation, both Lin and Felton have given up the same number of FGM, Lin's just had 2 more FGA on him, again not a big enough sample size.

And the reason people determined that last year was because PGs that faced the Knicks would consistently have some their best games of the year with Lin defending them. That hasn't been the case this year with Felton.


I don't have a problem with Felton's defense. He certainly doesn't come close to deserving the "bulldog" iso reputation he had at the beginning of the year for some reason, but PG iso defense, as long as it's not ridiculously terrible like Kyrie's, is irrelevant, and P/R defense is all about help defense, and he's definitely passable on that front. Advanced stats can lie sometimes.

I just wish he would take fewer shots and make better decisions.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#333 » by Sark » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:16 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:That can possibly be said of alot of pg's, that's where defenses break down first.



That's not true at all. Where did you get that from?
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#334 » by earthmansurfer » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:17 pm

KnickswiththeKnack wrote:The really funny thing to me is that this thread has gone 22 pages on the back of a WIN, in which Felton scored 15 pts on 7-15 shooting. Are there things he could be doing better? Sure! But hey, we must be eatin' real good right now.


2 assists, how is that even possible?

But he did have a nice shooting game stat wise.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#335 » by bronxknicksfan1 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:19 pm

I'm going to leave this argument. This discussion has been had multiple times about Lin and it's getting ridiculous again.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#336 » by barborous » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:21 pm

earthmansurfer wrote:
KnickswiththeKnack wrote:The really funny thing to me is that this thread has gone 22 pages on the back of a WIN, in which Felton scored 15 pts on 7-15 shooting. Are there things he could be doing better? Sure! But hey, we must be eatin' real good right now.


2 assists, how is that even possible?

But he did have a nice shooting game stat wise.


Well, no. It was his fourth consecutive game on < 50% TS, which is kind of atrocious. But he wasn't forcing shots as much; he just wasn't getting calls, which makes me hopeful going forward.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#337 » by knicksnyk » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:22 pm

bronxknicksfan1 wrote:And the reason people determined that last year was because PGs that faced the Knicks would consistently have some their best games of the year with Lin defending them. That hasn't been the case this year with Felton.



Responding to your last sentence only about PGs having the best games of the year against felton LOL kyrie dropped 40. Lin dropped 28. Kirk hinrich came alive against felton almost had a triple double kirck hinrich was literally the walking dead previously. Those are just the most recent games I can remember off the top off my head. LOL. Thank you for helping me prove my point & reminding me about Kirk Hinrich i totally forgot that homie nearly had a tripple double against us lmao. *tears*
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#338 » by Workforce250 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:42 pm

rl2011 wrote:20-7

20-7

20-7

20-7

20-7

Felton is being asked to be our #2 and #3 scoring options, depending if JR is on the floor and if he is hot or not. He has played much better than I would have thought coming into the season, especially considering the burden he has to carry. Run the O, create for others, score etc. He fits our team perfectly, he is a gritty player, and Melo/Woodson love the guy. Enough said.

Our team has the perfect components around Melo for what our options where. Are there more ideal components,of course, any of the Elite PG's except Rondo (because he would need to knock down way too many open jumpers) would fit in, but there is a salary cap and we got Felton for Jared Jeffries, so I would say that is a huge win.

Also one must consider our PG is not Ray Felton, its Felton-Kidd-Prigs who together create a nice shooting, turnover free playmaking threat for 48 minutes.

Advanced Statistics should be taken with a grain of salt also. This is not baseball and so much of what goes on on the basketball court cannot be measured by any statistic. Like the media saying Melo's true shooting percentage and all that BS. Well carmelo being on the court if you WATCH the game creates easy buckets for others based on how much the D has to pay attention to him. Same thing with Ray Felton - his D is ok its not great but he plays extremely hard, cares, and is all about the team. He is in a slump now but he will get out of it.

All that matters is that come May/June he is playing like he did in November.



Very good.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#339 » by frogfood » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:51 pm

Workforce250 wrote:
rl2011 wrote:20-7

20-7

20-7

20-7

20-7

Felton is being asked to be our #2 and #3 scoring options, depending if JR is on the floor and if he is hot or not. He has played much better than I would have thought coming into the season, especially considering the burden he has to carry. Run the O, create for others, score etc. He fits our team perfectly, he is a gritty player, and Melo/Woodson love the guy. Enough said.

Our team has the perfect components around Melo for what our options where. Are there more ideal components,of course, any of the Elite PG's except Rondo (because he would need to knock down way too many open jumpers) would fit in, but there is a salary cap and we got Felton for Jared Jeffries, so I would say that is a huge win.

Also one must consider our PG is not Ray Felton, its Felton-Kidd-Prigs who together create a nice shooting, turnover free playmaking threat for 48 minutes.

Advanced Statistics should be taken with a grain of salt also. This is not baseball and so much of what goes on on the basketball court cannot be measured by any statistic. Like the media saying Melo's true shooting percentage and all that BS. Well carmelo being on the court if you WATCH the game creates easy buckets for others based on how much the D has to pay attention to him. Same thing with Ray Felton - his D is ok its not great but he plays extremely hard, cares, and is all about the team. He is in a slump now but he will get out of it.

All that matters is that come May/June he is playing like he did in November.



Very good.


Agreed to an extent. Assist numbers are very misleading and is very dependent on a team's offense. That said, I do feel like Felton is the wrong PG for this offense / taking on a bigger role than he should be in this offense. Sure, he is playing above his contract (mere 4m per) but what does that matter in the long run? We need smart and productive play no matter what the play:salary ratio.

I also do not feel he will ever reach that November level too. Those high shooting %s were not sustainable and teams are making adjustments to not leave our shooters wide open. That said, I'm sure he will play better and will not remain in this crater, especially when STAT returns.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#340 » by KnickswiththeKnack » Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:59 pm

earthmansurfer wrote:
KnickswiththeKnack wrote:The really funny thing to me is that this thread has gone 22 pages on the back of a WIN, in which Felton scored 15 pts on 7-15 shooting. Are there things he could be doing better? Sure! But hey, we must be eatin' real good right now.


2 assists, how is that even possible?

But he did have a nice shooting game stat wise.


Yes, I said there were other things he could have done better. But he would have had at least 4-5 more assists if Chandler hadn't had a huge Russian Bear guarding him. Again, another place where I think Amare will ultimately be a big help. But anyway, there's that.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#341 » by god shammgod » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:00 pm

He came back after being traded. He's going nowhere. This is pointless.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#342 » by earthmansurfer » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:03 pm

barborous wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
KnickswiththeKnack wrote:The really funny thing to me is that this thread has gone 22 pages on the back of a WIN, in which Felton scored 15 pts on 7-15 shooting. Are there things he could be doing better? Sure! But hey, we must be eatin' real good right now.


2 assists, how is that even possible?

But he did have a nice shooting game stat wise.


Well, no. It was his fourth consecutive game on < 50% TS, which is kind of atrocious. But he wasn't forcing shots as much; he just wasn't getting calls, which makes me hopeful going forward.


I have hope for Feltons shooting. With him he needs to think a bit more before he shoots. Now, Melo is doing that this year, so I hope (perhaps due to Kidd being on the team) Felton starts to adjust as well.

The part that I don't see improving is his court vision. He misses too many open guys, very tunneled vision when you watch him play. He is GREAT with Chandler on P&R's, so I see what he brings to a point. I am a bit frustrated knowing we let a potentially great PG walk (in Lin) when he could have been studying under Kidd. I mean that is just a dream for a young PG.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#343 » by Thugger HBC » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:05 pm

Ok.......i think this topic has officially ran it's course.
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Re: Trade Felton 

Post#344 » by tsherkin » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:01 pm

Sark wrote:
That's not true at all. Where did you get that from?


Sure it is. Screen, bang, initial defender gone. Never mind that PGs tend to be the fastest and most mobile players on the court. It is extremely difficult to stay in front of your man, and is impossible to do consistently, especially without handchecking.

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