Maybe we expected too much too quickly?

[Starksfor3]

Let's take a look back at recent seasons (I know.....I know, be strong). Now, if we were told in October 2010 that the Knicks were the sixth seed and over .500 (albeit barely) at this point in the season, I think most people on this board would be ok with that.

It's how we got here and the faults that the team displays consistently that has us concerned. I understand that. However, we were not going to compete for a championship regardless with this squad. We are far from a finished product and still are even if we acquire Melo. We still need another big, potentially an upgrade at PG and a backup PG.

The point I'm trying to make is that we have a team we can at least be proud of. That's a step in the right direction. There is accountability now (at least Amar'e gives us that). Players want to come here and the task of building a winner here is not quite as daunting as it seemed going into the Summer of 2010. We have a widely-respected President of Basketball Operations and a coach (who although I don't like and don't entirely enjoy his style of play) that has had some history of success.

I think the most realistic expectation for this season is playoffs and perhaps sneaking out of the first round. Remind yourself of this and maybe take a game or two off (I think I'm gonna do this tonight). It's good for your mental health!

[AndroidMan]

Let's take a look back at recent seasons (I know.....I know, be strong). Now, if we were told in October 2010 that the Knicks were the sixth seed and over .500 (albeit barely) at this point in the season, I think most people on this board would be ok with that.

It's how we got here and the faults that the team displays consistently that has us concerned. I understand that. However, we were not going to compete for a championship regardless with this squad. We are far from a finished product and still are even if we acquire Melo. We still need another big, potentially an upgrade at PG and a backup PG.

The point I'm trying to make is that we have a team we can at least be proud of. That's a step in the right direction. There is accountability now (at least Amar'e gives us that). Players want to come here and the task of building a winner here is not quite as daunting as it seemed going into the Summer of 2010. We have a widely-respected President of Basketball Operations and a coach (who although I don't like and don't entirely enjoy his style of play) has had some history of success.

I think the most realistic expectation for this season is playoffs and perhaps sneaking out of the first round. Remind yourself of this and maybe take a game or two off (I think I'm gonna do this tonight). It's good for your mental health!

I can cite many of my quotes in Oct '10 that the Knicks were locked into a 6 seed with about 42-46 expected wins.

This is exactly where I expected the Knicks to be. I can even go back to July/Aug with those claims.

My concern is we are getting closer to below .500. That's my exception. As long as we play marginally better then .500 then I don't complain.

[Knicker23]

I don't know, compared to last year of course .500 would be great.... but With Amare playing at the level that he was (and is) and Felton playing at a reasonably high level - you'd expect us to be more than 4 games better than the Pacers/76ers/8th spot....

[ElTuco84]

Our future is bright, people are just too impatient, it's understandable after ten years. However I do think with our current roster we should be five games above .500 at least.

[Dr. Detfink]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden? Congrats, you can take off the bag but don't you DARE talk about your team in bars.

I'm sorry if Donnie can't close on Melo the Knicks will not attract him FA. NY does not sell with young athletes today.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Let's take a look back at recent seasons (I know.....I know, be strong). Now, if we were told in October 2010 that the Knicks were the sixth seed and over .500 (albeit barely) at this point in the season, I think most people on this board would be ok with that.

It's how we got here and the faults that the team displays consistently that has us concerned. I understand that. However, we were not going to compete for a championship regardless with this squad. We are far from a finished product and still are even if we acquire Melo. We still need another big, potentially an upgrade at PG and a backup PG.

The point I'm trying to make is that we have a team we can at least be proud of. That's a step in the right direction. There is accountability now (at least Amar'e gives us that). Players want to come here and the task of building a winner here is not quite as daunting as it seemed going into the Summer of 2010. We have a widely-respected President of Basketball Operations and a coach (who although I don't like and don't entirely enjoy his style of play) that has had some history of success.

I think the most realistic expectation for this season is playoffs and perhaps sneaking out of the first round. Remind yourself of this and maybe take a game or two off (I think I'm gonna do this tonight). It's good for your mental health!

I agree. A ton of complaining for a team that has made a huge leap and put itself in a position to get even better. Every loss for the Knicks is Armageddon.

But anything short of going 82-0 and people will bitch about something.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

Before the season, I expected us to win about 40-45 games, which is what we're on pace for now. I saw the playoffs as an absolute must, and obviously still feel that way.

If we finish the season at about .500, that's at most a few games lower than everyone realistically expected. Yet a lot of us are looking at this as a total failure, probably because we were exceeding expectations at one point in the season. Missing the playoffs altogether would be an absolute failure, but when all is said and done, .500 is not quite the disaster that people are making it out to be.

[J9Starks3]

But anything short of going 82-0 and people will bitch about something.

Who cares that we are 82-0 ... our TS% sucks!!!!!

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden?

But there have been some extreme highs to accompany those extreme lows. The Clippers game was a very bad loss, just like beating the Spurs was a very good win. We split our series with the Clips, split our series with the Spurs, and low and behold we're a .500 team.

We are of the inconsistent variety of .500 teams, rather than those that beat all the teams worse than them and lose to all the teams better than them. It can make for some very miserable moments, and some truly spectacular ones.

[thisiskoz]

its a tough call... i think in terms of expectations prior to the season... were right about where we thought wed be... but that doesnt change the fact that as of late the team has looked like they are playing a few notches below their capabilities... and i think thats why some are upset...

we feel as a team theyre capable of more now than we thought at the beginning of the year... so to just be where we thought the team would be in terms of playoff position and record isnt quite enough...

[Dr. Detfink]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden?

But there have been some extreme highs to accompany those extreme lows. The Clippers game was a very bad loss, just like beating the Spurs was a very good win. We split our series with the Clips, split our series with the Spurs, and low and behold we're a .500 team.

We are of the inconsistent variety of .500 teams, rather than those that beat all the teams worse than them and lose to all the teams better than them. It can make for some very miserable moments, and some truly spectacular ones.

There are WAY more awful teams than good teams so winning over the Spurs that we see 2 games a season in the other conference says NOTHING to do with the team that lost to the Kings, Sixers, Clippers...to compliment losses to Mavs and other good teams.

What you see is the CEILING of this team. It's a .500 team with present talent. The role players will get a little better but so do the other teams!

But what's most disturbing...super stars are passing on NYC, endorsements, Garden, etc. VERY DISTURBING.

Basically players will take lower taxes and less press for a little less money...and NO CONFIDENCE in the organization.

[J9Starks3]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden?

But there have been some extreme highs to accompany those extreme lows. The Clippers game was a very bad loss, just like beating the Spurs was a very good win. We split our series with the Clips, split our series with the Spurs, and low and behold we're a .500 team.

We are of the inconsistent variety of .500 teams, rather than those that beat all the teams worse than them and lose to all the teams better than them. It can make for some very miserable moments, and some truly spectacular ones.

I agree - our team certainly lacks consistency that would make us a much better team. But we are young and that kind of comes with the territory a bit.

First off, lets throw out our 3-7 start - it took us 10 games as a new unit to come together and that loss to the Nuggets on game 11 was really where our team started to play.

Then look at the teams we lost to, that we "should have" beaten. You have the Cavs, the Kings, Philly and the Clippers. Look at teams we beat, that we "shouldnt have" won. You have the Hornets, the Nuggets, the Thunder, the Bulls, the Spurs, the Heat. Then there are teams we are pretty on par with. We split with the Suns and lost to Houston.

All in all we probably have 6 games we won, that were against better teams, 4 games we lost against clearly worse teams and we were roughly 1-2 against teams that I wouldnt know if we are better or worse. I dont know how much you can really complain about that with this club.

Could we be better if we didnt start 3-7...sure, but I think that experience in the long run helped this team and its identity more than it hurt them. The team as constructed, is a 45-ish win team and 1st round of the playoffs. We are right about that now.

[JohnStarksTheDunk]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden?

But there have been some extreme highs to accompany those extreme lows. The Clippers game was a very bad loss, just like beating the Spurs was a very good win. We split our series with the Clips, split our series with the Spurs, and low and behold we're a .500 team.

We are of the inconsistent variety of .500 teams, rather than those that beat all the teams worse than them and lose to all the teams better than them. It can make for some very miserable moments, and some truly spectacular ones.

There are WAY more awful teams than good teams so winning over the Spurs that we see 2 games a season in the other conference says NOTHING to do with the team that lost to the Kings, Sixers, Clippers...to compliment losses to Mavs and other good teams.

And yet we are still .500 (pretty much where we were expected to be), so we must not be splitting with all of the horrible teams. Plus, we see the Clips and Kings just as often as we do the Spurs, so I don't see how splitting with them has any more weight than splitting with the Spurs and the Thunder.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying .500 should be the goal. I'm saying that focusing on the bad losses only is just as foolish as focusing on the good wins only. The Spurs win does not make us a great team and the Clippers loss does not make us a horrible one. We are better than some teams and worse than others. Our winning percentage right now ranks us exactly at #15 in the league.

What you see is the CEILING of this team. It's a .500 team with present talent. The role players will get a little better but so do the other teams!

I agree. We are seeing the ceiling of a team that is still rebuilding and has enough cap space/flexibility to add another max player. Our role players will get better (just like other teams' players), and hopefully so will our roster and talent level.

To see the Knicks right now as anything significantly better than a work-in-progress is probably setting expectations a little too high. I think we got spoiled by that winning streak earlier in the year.

[Capn'O]

I'm a bit surprised that we've hit such a rough patch but this is about where I expected the team to be. A win over the tired Lakers tonight with a lot of PT for Moz would certainly put me in better spirits

[seren]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden?

But there have been some extreme highs to accompany those extreme lows. The Clippers game was a very bad loss, just like beating the Spurs was a very good win. We split our series with the Clips, split our series with the Spurs, and low and behold we're a .500 team.

We are of the inconsistent variety of .500 teams, rather than those that beat all the teams worse than them and lose to all the teams better than them. It can make for some very miserable moments, and some truly spectacular ones.

There are WAY more awful teams than good teams so winning over the Spurs that we see 2 games a season in the other conference says NOTHING to do with the team that lost to the Kings, Sixers, Clippers...to compliment losses to Mavs and other good teams.

What you see is the CEILING of this team. It's a .500 team with present talent. The role players will get a little better but so do the other teams!

But what's most disturbing...super stars are passing on NYC, endorsements, Garden, etc. VERY DISTURBING.

Basically players will take lower taxes and less press for a little less money...and NO CONFIDENCE in the organization.

What do you say about 2-0 against Chicago? How about 16-11 in the conference?

[Deeeez Knicks]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden?

But there have been some extreme highs to accompany those extreme lows. The Clippers game was a very bad loss, just like beating the Spurs was a very good win. We split our series with the Clips, split our series with the Spurs, and low and behold we're a .500 team.

We are of the inconsistent variety of .500 teams, rather than those that beat all the teams worse than them and lose to all the teams better than them. It can make for some very miserable moments, and some truly spectacular ones.

Very true. And really every team goes through ups and downs. Celtics are 5-5 over there last 10 (we are 4-6), Lakers go through stretches losing 3 or 4 in a row, etc. The Spurs might be the only team that has been cruising all year.

Maybe most teams aren't as up and down as us, but just about every team is up and down.

And I do think after the trading deadline/allstar break this team will play a little better and go on an upward swing with or without Melo.

[Capn'O]

a .500 team that got beat by a 3 win road Clipper team in the Garden?

But there have been some extreme highs to accompany those extreme lows. The Clippers game was a very bad loss, just like beating the Spurs was a very good win. We split our series with the Clips, split our series with the Spurs, and low and behold we're a .500 team.

We are of the inconsistent variety of .500 teams, rather than those that beat all the teams worse than them and lose to all the teams better than them. It can make for some very miserable moments, and some truly spectacular ones.

Very true. And really every team goes through ups and downs. Celtics are 5-5 over there last 10 (we are 4-6), Lakers go through stretches losing 3 or 4 in a row, etc. The Spurs might be the only team that has been cruising all year.

Maybe most teams aren't as up and down as us, but just about every team is up and down.

And I do think after the trading deadline/allstar break this team will play a little better and go on an upward swing with or without Melo.

Very good point. No doubt the team has been distracted.

[BelieveTheDream]

we are going to be fine...THis melo trade talk is getting into the heads of our younger players and hopefully when the dealdline passes if we have him or noteither way I think we will be fine.

[biggyfuzz]

For a group of core guys that are new to each other, i feel content at where we are at. Most of us predicted 42-45 wins and it seems we are heading that way.

I think the frustration is in the games we lose, we have a chance to win but we don't execute properly or efficiently.

Now if next season for some reason we don't land Melo and we have the same group of guys and the Knicks are .500, then that is just effin ridiculous.

Lets say Knicks win 43 games this year, I expect the use to win 48-50 games the following year, etc etc.

I am glad to see the schedule and say "we have a chance to beat this team". Like tonight against the Lakers, I feel the Knicks can win this game and I'm hoping they will; last 8,9 years, i was not able to say this.

Growing pains is a b**ch.

I still feel Knicks should hire a defensive minded assistant coach to work on our individual defense and team defense when we play small ball.

[richardhutnik]

Besides my usual chilled about things, where I thought the Knicks are a .500 club, which is 12 games better than last year, and 6 games better than their normal 35 game win seasons, I am seriously chilled on some pain pills, and can't help but NOT care. Wow, so these are what chill pills are. Now excuse me as I join Donnie Walsh in taking a nap. Wake me up when the Melo deal goes through. You know, this state is a TON better than being a fan who is under high anxiety.

- Rich