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OT- Anime

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Post#916 Re: OT- Anime
Fri Jan 4, 2013 7:11 pm by Falstaffxx

bertrob wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:I feel as if the winter season is taking a long time to start. And sage fansubs are on vacation or something so no Bakuman 3. I've just been watching Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory and Revolutionary Girl Utena.

I still don't have a grasp of the winter shows that are coming out :lol:
Stardust was a good show in terms of visuals, but I didn't like how it concentrated more on a less interesting cast than the previous one. How are you liking it so far?


I like it well enough. The only other Gundam stuff I've seen so far are the 3 movies that tell the story of the original TV series, War in the Pocket, and 8th MS Team. I like Stardust better than 8th MS Team I think...more epic, more cool Gundams, plus I like Nina Purpleton. I've been going through the Universal Century stuff. Gundam Z will be next for me.

Revolutionary Girl Utena is totally awesome IMO.

The next thing I watch other than new stuff will probably be The Slayers, or maybe Rozen Maiden.
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Post#917 Re: OT- Anime
Sat Jan 5, 2013 5:06 pm by LLJ

Falstaffxx wrote:
bertrob wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:I feel as if the winter season is taking a long time to start. And sage fansubs are on vacation or something so no Bakuman 3. I've just been watching Mobile Suit Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory and Revolutionary Girl Utena.

I still don't have a grasp of the winter shows that are coming out :lol:
Stardust was a good show in terms of visuals, but I didn't like how it concentrated more on a less interesting cast than the previous one. How are you liking it so far?


I like it well enough. The only other Gundam stuff I've seen so far are the 3 movies that tell the story of the original TV series, War in the Pocket, and 8th MS Team. I like Stardust better than 8th MS Team I think...more epic, more cool Gundams, plus I like Nina Purpleton. I've been going through the Universal Century stuff. Gundam Z will be next for me.

Revolutionary Girl Utena is totally awesome IMO.

The next thing I watch other than new stuff will probably be The Slayers, or maybe Rozen Maiden.


Stardust is consistently great looking. The characterization goes to hell in the final episodes though. You'll probably go "huh?" more than a few times as the series approaches its end. Nina and Kou start regressing back to 12 year olds in behaviour. That said, the action truly is awesome.

Glad you like Utena. It's a genuine classic, and is great and disturbing in all sorts of ways as it progresses. It shows how what you can do with a limited budget too. (The same could be said of original Evangelion TV)
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Post#918 Re: OT- Anime
Sun Jan 6, 2013 7:58 pm by Bertrob

Anyone watch some of the new stuff?
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Post#919 Re: OT- Anime
Sun Jan 6, 2013 8:21 pm by Falstaffxx

LLJ wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:
I like it well enough. The only other Gundam stuff I've seen so far are the 3 movies that tell the story of the original TV series, War in the Pocket, and 8th MS Team. I like Stardust better than 8th MS Team I think...more epic, more cool Gundams, plus I like Nina Purpleton. I've been going through the Universal Century stuff. Gundam Z will be next for me.

Revolutionary Girl Utena is totally awesome IMO.

The next thing I watch other than new stuff will probably be The Slayers, or maybe Rozen Maiden.


Stardust is consistently great looking. The characterization goes to hell in the final episodes though. You'll probably go "huh?" more than a few times as the series approaches its end. Nina and Kou start regressing back to 12 year olds in behaviour. That said, the action truly is awesome.

Glad you like Utena. It's a genuine classic, and is great and disturbing in all sorts of ways as it progresses. It shows how what you can do with a limited budget too. (The same could be said of original Evangelion TV)


Utena has become one of my favorite shows. I just finished the TV series. It's beautiful, weird, intense. I will say I was disappointed by the ending, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an amazing series. I still have the movie to watch, so I'm looking forward to that.

I just finished Stardust Memory too. I see what you mean about the characters, although I guess I didn't care that much because the show was mostly about the mecha battles anyhow. The ending was was intriguing.

I'm switching gears away from Gundam to Fullmetal Alchemist for the moment. I've never seen any FMA, but I thought I should. I'm watching Brotherhood, because that's the one I have and someone told me it's better (dunno if that's true).

For the new stuff...the first episode of Maoyu was a mess...I'll give it another ep to get going, but I'm not feeling optimistic about it.
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Post#920 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:42 am by Bertrob

Falstaffxx wrote:
I'm switching gears away from Gundam to Fullmetal Alchemist for the moment. I've never seen any FMA, but I thought I should. I'm watching Brotherhood, because that's the one I have and someone told me it's better (dunno if that's true).



It's not necessarily better, just different. It just follows the manga so more people are apt to crown it. But after comparing the two, I do think Brotherhood is better because I didn't like the whole buildup to the ending of the first one. Also you get a better sense of finality. And you can't forget about having Yao Ling and Olivier Mira Armstrong in it. But I also kinda liked Dante, who was an original anime character from the first one. The ending for the first one was also kind of an interesting idea. Brotherhood is the one you should definitely watch, but if you ever have time the first one isn't a bad watch either.

Falstaffxx wrote:
For the new stuff...the first episode of Maoyu was a mess...I'll give it another ep to get going, but I'm not feeling optimistic about it.



:shy: Have not yet seen it yet (buffering it right now) but I am scared now
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Post#921 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 6:51 am by Falstaffxx

bertrob wrote:
:shy: Have not yet seen it yet (buffering it right now) but I am scared now


Let me know what you think.
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Post#922 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:20 am by j4remi

bertrob wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:
I'm switching gears away from Gundam to Fullmetal Alchemist for the moment. I've never seen any FMA, but I thought I should. I'm watching Brotherhood, because that's the one I have and someone told me it's better (dunno if that's true).



It's not necessarily better, just different. It just follows the manga so more people are apt to crown it. But after comparing the two, I do think Brotherhood is better because I didn't like the whole buildup to the ending of the first one. Also you get a better sense of finality. And you can't forget about having Yao Ling and Olivier Mira Armstrong in it. But I also kinda liked Dante, who was an original anime character from the first one. The ending for the first one was also kind of an interesting idea. Brotherhood is the one you should definitely watch, but if you ever have time the first one isn't a bad watch either.

Falstaffxx wrote:
For the new stuff...the first episode of Maoyu was a mess...I'll give it another ep to get going, but I'm not feeling optimistic about it.



:shy: Have not yet seen it yet (buffering it right now) but I am scared now


I think the cool thing about Brotherhood and the original is that they're so different after the first 1/3rd or so of the story (which is also somewhat different in it's own right) that you can watch both without getting bored. HunterXHunter is doing a remake thing but it's the same plot, just much improved animation imo.
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Post#923 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:39 pm by LLJ

Falstaffxx wrote:
Utena has become one of my favorite shows. I just finished the TV series. It's beautiful, weird, intense. I will say I was disappointed by the ending, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an amazing series. I still have the movie to watch, so I'm looking forward to that.


The ending may be a bit less "grand" than one might hope, but thematically it makes total sense, if you look at it from a feminist point of view. Utena inspired Anthy to break out of her emotional and mental bonds and now Anthy will go off into the world and maybe do the same thing Utena did. It's pretty neat if you think about it that way. It's definitely one for the sociology classes.

The Utena movie is one of the most visually gorgeous anime movies ever made, but don't expect too much in the way of additional info on the series.
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Post#924 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:13 pm by Falstaffxx

LLJ wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:
Utena has become one of my favorite shows. I just finished the TV series. It's beautiful, weird, intense. I will say I was disappointed by the ending, but that doesn't change the fact that it's an amazing series. I still have the movie to watch, so I'm looking forward to that.


The ending may be a bit less "grand" than one might hope, but thematically it makes total sense, if you look at it from a feminist point of view. Utena inspired Anthy to break out of her emotional and mental bonds and now Anthy will go off into the world and maybe do the same thing Utena did. It's pretty neat if you think about it that way. It's definitely one for the sociology classes.

The Utena movie is one of the most visually gorgeous anime movies ever made, but don't expect too much in the way of additional info on the series.


I don't think the show was about a simple feminist message like that though. It was mystical. It was about looking for "something eternal" and "the world you seek," and being larger than life. It was about something grander than realizing it's time to go out and live your life, and I thought the ending didn't live up to that. Still a wonderful show though. And a lot of it was really about mood and style, which 100% worked regardless of whether the ending came together ideally.
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Post#925 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:51 pm by LLJ

Gender roles and subversion were definitely a big part of the show's themes. Yes, there is the mystical element as well, but it's definitely in part about the idea of living in a society (whether it be patriarchal or whatever) that seeks to shackle you to playing a certain role within society. The whole show is largely symbolic. The big thing about Utena was that what everyone was searching for...was kind of a big lie. They were looking for something that didn't really exist. The ending showed that Akio and everyone else in the Student Council were fools who chose to sequester themselves within a rigid social structure and "game" instead of going out and living life by their own rules. Remember, the show is called Revolutionary Girl Utena. Nobody said the revolution was going to be quick and easy, though.

It also says something about the idea of conforming too. In the show, only 3 characters really chose to challenge the structure of the world and its rules...Utena, Mikage and at the last, Anthy. And they were subsequently kicked out of those worlds...although Anthy left on her own accord. In interviews, the director stated that this was the Catch-22 of being a real, self-thinking individual...if you didn't play by society's rules, then society itself would reject you.

So I think the ending is consistent to its themes. I think the mystical elements were actually purposefully alluring in order to emphasize the rather shallow nature of the Student Council's worldview. If I may stretch the show into a real life analogy a bit, our own society says that to be a successful person, you should get married, have kids, have a well paying job and hopefully one day work your way up to a two-garage home. That's the great "special thing" we seek, because that's what mainstream society says is successful. The people who don't follow this life model have a harder road ahead of them. Utena is saying "Hey, if you want to challenge the status quo, you gotta have the guts to accept being rejected by the world around you. Kudos to you if you can."

Did you watch this online or the DVDs? The DVD sets include these thick 80-100 page booklets featuring essays and interviews with all the staff members. They all have their own ideas about what the show means, but the theme of gender roles, fairy tales, social hierarchy all come up frequently. They're really fascinating reads.
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Post#926 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 3:43 pm by Falstaffxx

LLJ wrote:Gender roles and subversion were definitely a big part of the show's themes. Yes, there is the mystical element as well, but it's definitely in part about the idea of living in a society (whether it be patriarchal or whatever) that seeks to shackle you to playing a certain role within society. The whole show is largely symbolic. The big thing about Utena was that what everyone was searching for...was kind of a big lie. They were looking for something that didn't really exist. The ending showed that Akio and everyone else in the Student Council were fools who chose to sequester themselves within a rigid social structure and "game" instead of going out and living life by their own rules. Remember, the show is called Revolutionary Girl Utena. Nobody said the revolution was going to be quick and easy, though.

It also says something about the idea of conforming too. In the show, only 3 characters really chose to challenge the structure of the world and its rules...Utena, Mikage and at the last, Anthy. And they were subsequently kicked out of those worlds...although Anthy left on her own accord. In interviews, the director stated that this was the Catch-22 of being a real, self-thinking individual...if you didn't play by society's rules, then society itself would reject you.

So I think the ending is consistent to its themes. I think the mystical elements were actually purposefully alluring in order to emphasize the rather shallow nature of the Student Council's worldview. If I may stretch the show into a real life analogy a bit, our own society says that to be a successful person, you should get married, have kids, have a well paying job and hopefully one day work your way up to a two-garage home. That's the great "special thing" we seek, because that's what mainstream society says is successful. The people who don't follow this life model have a harder road ahead of them. Utena is saying "Hey, if you want to challenge the status quo, you gotta have the guts to accept being rejected by the world around you. Kudos to you if you can."

Did you watch this online or the DVDs? The DVD sets include these thick 80-100 page booklets featuring essays and interviews with all the staff members. They all have their own ideas about what the show means, but the theme of gender roles, fairy tales, social hierarchy all come up frequently. They're really fascinating reads.


I watched the DVD's. I don't know if I'll read the stuff it came with (I like the pictures though). I really think there's much more to the show than a summary of the themes can capture. Those are mundane things, and it was a transcendental show. The blend of melodrama, apocalyptic mysticism, and absurdism creating this feeling that behind the curtain was something huge and special - the world we seek, the end of the world, the castle in the sky, the revolution...whatever. Just this amazing, scary thing that kept seeping in around the edges. My one complaint about the show is that it should have really gone for it at the end instead of backing away. Don't get me wrong, I loved the show...it's probably one of my top 5 favorites of all time now. And I don't hold the ending against it. Evangelion is my favorite series of all time, and that had a problem ending too. Something doesn't have to be perfect to be great.
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Post#927 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 4:00 pm by Falstaffxx

I'll add, it's also a really funny show.
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Post#928 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 7:51 pm by LLJ

I originally though the ending should have been "bigger" as well, but when I add up all the dots, the ending really is the most logical one, and the most faithful to Utena's own ideals. If they went for some grand ending where the transcendent secrets of the world were unlocked, it would have been totally opposite of what Utena stood for, since she didn't want all that. Plus, I think we the audience were trolled a bit as well because now that I think back on it, I feel like all the grander and empty mysticism was actually meant to be questioned. It's like dealing with the devil. They wave all this shiny mystical babble in front of you and ask you just how much you want it, and if you're willing to sacrifice your ideals for it. Utena didn't, and the ending reflects that. Of course, that's just one interpretation. But I think categorizing the show as some nebulous intangible magical...thing...would be both doing it a disservice and at the same time overpraising it.

Maybe you would like the movie ending better. The ending is pretty damned crazy, if nothing else.

I do have some other problems with Utena personally when it comes to some of the minor characters and the pacing (it doesn't hit my top 5 of the 90s) but the ending really isn't one of them. I really do think they stuck to their guns on that one and it works.

As for Evangelion, I am one of the very few who liked the TV ending the best. :lol:
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Post#929 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:12 pm by Falstaffxx

LLJ wrote:I originally though the ending should have been "bigger" as well, but when I add up all the dots, the ending really is the most logical one, and the most faithful to Utena's own ideals. If they went for some grand ending where the transcendent secrets of the world were unlocked, it would have been totally opposite of what Utena stood for, since she didn't want all that. Plus, I think we the audience were trolled a bit as well because now that I think back on it, I feel like all the grander and empty mysticism was actually meant to be questioned. It's like dealing with the devil. They wave all this shiny mystical babble in front of you and ask you just how much you want it, and if you're willing to sacrifice your ideals for it. Utena didn't, and the ending reflects that. Of course, that's just one interpretation. But I think categorizing the show as some nebulous intangible magical...thing...would be both doing it a disservice and at the same time overpraising it.

Maybe you would like the movie ending better. The ending is pretty damned crazy, if nothing else.

I do have some other problems with Utena personally when it comes to some of the minor characters and the pacing (it doesn't hit my top 5 of the 90s) but the ending really isn't one of them. I really do think they stuck to their guns on that one and it works.

As for Evangelion, I am one of the very few who liked the TV ending the best. :lol:


I think what you're saying is an accurate summary of the message of the show's final minutes, but I don't think those moments were true to the show's overall direction and the things that really made the show special. The show wasn't special because of some little moral about being yourself and not going with the flow. It was special because it created a heightened, really special, ridiculous, eloquent world. The ending didn't necessarily have to be "bigger," but I think it needed to keep going with that instead of undermining it.

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It didn't really make sense either, because they're going "the castle is just a planetarium projection and the end of the world is just my turret in the tower" yet there's still a Rose Gate that you have to open to save Himemiya. So it's just suddenly being selective about what it undermines and what it allows to be supernatural. Unless you think the entire final duel is just a metaphor and doesn't actually happen...but that would be lame.
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Post#930 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:17 pm by Falstaffxx

By the way, I was basically okay with the ending of Evangelion, except that I was sad that we don't get any emotional closure around Misato and Asuka at the end, and they were such fantastic characters that I just wanted something more satisfying from them, whereas they seemed to just fade away. I felt that I got what I wanted from those characters in End of Evangelion (although the ending was just as murky).
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Post#931 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:19 pm by Falstaffxx

bertrob wrote:
Falstaffxx wrote:
I'm switching gears away from Gundam to Fullmetal Alchemist for the moment. I've never seen any FMA, but I thought I should. I'm watching Brotherhood, because that's the one I have and someone told me it's better (dunno if that's true).



It's not necessarily better, just different. It just follows the manga so more people are apt to crown it. But after comparing the two, I do think Brotherhood is better because I didn't like the whole buildup to the ending of the first one. Also you get a better sense of finality. And you can't forget about having Yao Ling and Olivier Mira Armstrong in it. But I also kinda liked Dante, who was an original anime character from the first one. The ending for the first one was also kind of an interesting idea. Brotherhood is the one you should definitely watch, but if you ever have time the first one isn't a bad watch either.

Falstaffxx wrote:
For the new stuff...the first episode of Maoyu was a mess...I'll give it another ep to get going, but I'm not feeling optimistic about it.



:shy: Have not yet seen it yet (buffering it right now) but I am scared now


Well I'm glad I'm making the right choice about which one to watch, sounds like. The first two eps were cool.
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Post#932 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:21 pm by Falstaffxx

j4remi wrote:
I think the cool thing about Brotherhood and the original is that they're so different after the first 1/3rd or so of the story (which is also somewhat different in it's own right) that you can watch both without getting bored. HunterXHunter is doing a remake thing but it's the same plot, just much improved animation imo.


One thing I wish Brotherhood had is the Nana Kitade song from the original. I associate it with FMA even though I'm just now getting around to watching FMA.
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Post#933 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:22 pm by QueenzAllDay

Must watch- MAGI. Funny / Adventure type.

Maaaaan what I would give to create my own story.
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Post#934 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:24 pm by Falstaffxx

QueenzAllDay wrote:Must watch- MAGI. Funny / Adventure type.

Maaaaan what I would give to create my own story.


Is that a new show that just started, or has it been going on for a while?
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Post#935 Re: OT- Anime
Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:25 pm by Falstaffxx

By the way LLJ, sorry if I'm overly aggressive with my opinions about anime. I get intense about it.
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