ImageImageImageImageImage

Fields issue

Moderators: mpharris36, GONYK, HerSports85, Jeff Van Gully, dakomish23, Capn'O, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, NoLayupRule

I_Love_NYK
RealGM
Posts: 10,836
And1: 122
Joined: Aug 01, 2002
Location: jersey city,nj
Contact:

Re: Fields issue 

Post#101 » by I_Love_NYK » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:26 pm

JR smith is a better on-ball defender than Fields. But Fields gets lost a lot on switching.
iHeartKNicks
Pro Prospect
Posts: 911
And1: 111
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
Location: Queens. Get the money

Re: Fields issue 

Post#102 » by iHeartKNicks » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:38 pm

Right now JR is the only guy besides Melo that can break his man down off the dribble. The two problems we have with JR is that he doesn't take it to the rack enough & he doesn't know when to not shoot.
Fields has to be more aggressive and hit open shots.
Twitter: AntBloom
IG: Antbloom
THE KNICKS WILL PREVAIL… eventually
seren
RealGM
Posts: 24,134
And1: 4,188
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Fields issue 

Post#103 » by seren » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:50 pm

iHeartKNicks wrote:Right now JR is the only guy besides Melo that can break his man down off the dribble. The two problems we have with JR is that he doesn't take it to the rack enough & he doesn't know when to not shoot.
Fields has to be more aggressive and hit open shots.


Right now JR breaks his man down off the dribble and shoots a fadeaway three. I don't know what is good about that.

Fields is definitely more aggressive than JR. And he does hit open shots. Two qualities that can't be said about JR.
Thugger HBC
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 49,679
And1: 18,760
Joined: Jan 14, 2011
Location: Defense+efficient offense=titles...what do you have?
       

Re: Fields issue 

Post#104 » by Thugger HBC » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:54 pm

I really don't see the sense in complaining about fields, when all the other options have their own flaws too.

Sent from my Asus Transformer Prime TF-201
R. I. P. Mamba 8/23/78 - 1/26/20

Gone, but will never be forgotten
NowWHYcee7
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,326
And1: 953
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
 

Re: Fields issue 

Post#105 » by NowWHYcee7 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:01 pm

gavran wrote:Pretty much trash, that makes his team better. Interesting.


not really. he's a liability on the floor. if he's not catching the ball in transition he's non-existent. like I said, he has stretches where he looks good for a little bit but he always eventually disappears in crucial moments...mainly because he lacks confidence and doesn't have a strong mentality. JR is a nut but at least he's a threat that defenses have to respect and he's a good defender - much better than expected, and much better than Fields. I think people are just attached to Fields because of his personality (he's not a "thug"), education, and the fact that he was drafted so low. I'm willing to give him another season though, if he comes through next year with an improved jumper and improved FT % I'll be more than happy with him. Right now though we have to face the reality that he is a severely limited player. He was babied last year and most of this year....the shhhht is starting to hit the fan.
seren
RealGM
Posts: 24,134
And1: 4,188
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Fields issue 

Post#106 » by seren » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:07 pm

NowWHYcee7 wrote:
gavran wrote:Pretty much trash, that makes his team better. Interesting.


not really. he's a liability on the floor. if he's not catching the ball in transition he's non-existent. like I said, he has stretches where he looks good for a little bit but he always eventually disappears in crucial moments...mainly because he lacks confidence and doesn't have a strong mentality. JR is a nut but at least he's a threat that defenses have to respect and he's a good defender - much better than expected, and much better than Fields. I think people are just attached to Fields because of his personality (he's not a "thug"), education, and the fact that he was drafted so low. I'm willing to give him another season though, if he comes through next year with an improved jumper and improved FT % I'll be more than happy with him. Right now though we have to face the reality that he is a severely limited player. He was babied last year and most of this year....the shhhht is starting to hit the fan.


Can't be far from the truth. I like Fields because he is a positive on the floor. He moves the ball, attacks the basket. We play a team ball, we get ahead. JR comes in, "creates" his fadeaway three pointers, and we go down.

As usual, last night the team was on the plus with Fields on the floor and huge minus (-20) when JR was in. It happens for a while, you call it coincidence. It happens every frigging time, you need to look at your presumptions.
User avatar
kane
Head Coach
Posts: 7,024
And1: 2,342
Joined: Dec 30, 2011
     

Re: Fields issue 

Post#107 » by kane » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:09 pm

the thing that really scares me about fields is not only that his shot is clearly broken and it has been all season, but the total inability to make any kind of adjustments during a season to try and fix it
User avatar
Sark
RealGM
Posts: 19,274
And1: 16,044
Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Location: Merry Pills
 

Re: Fields issue 

Post#108 » by Sark » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:11 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:I guess people still can't appreciate some of the good things Fields does on the court. He's a glue player.

Basically you can't play 5 guys at the same time who are looking to shoot. Even 4 is too much. You need a few unselfish players who are looking to pass first.


He took the second most shots yesterday and bricked almost all of them.

Unless he has an open dunk/layup, he is almost assuredly going to miss.

Kevin Garnett has better shooting guard skills than Landry Fields. He is quicker/faster. He has a better outside shot. He has a better dribble/handle. He can get past his defender better.
seren
RealGM
Posts: 24,134
And1: 4,188
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Fields issue 

Post#109 » by seren » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:17 pm

Sark wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:I guess people still can't appreciate some of the good things Fields does on the court. He's a glue player.

Basically you can't play 5 guys at the same time who are looking to shoot. Even 4 is too much. You need a few unselfish players who are looking to pass first.


He took the second most shots yesterday and bricked almost all of them.

Unless he has an open dunk/layup, he is almost assuredly going to miss.

Kevin Garnett has better shooting guard skills than Landry Fields. He is quicker/faster. He has a better outside shot. He has a better dribble/handle. He can get past his defender better.


Yet, he has the highest shooting percentage among all guards on our team. It is not a question of whether Fields is better than Ray Allen. It is a question of whether he is better than JR who he is losing minutes to.

I would rather go with a guy who moves the ball, attacks the basket, and takes good shots over a guy who shoots fadeaway threes because he is "creating" shots. Newsflash: That is not creating shots. That is chucking.
NowWHYcee7
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,326
And1: 953
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
 

Re: Fields issue 

Post#110 » by NowWHYcee7 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:24 pm

seren wrote:
Can't be far from the truth. I like Fields because he is a positive on the floor. He moves the ball, attacks the basket. We play a team ball, we get ahead. JR comes in, "creates" his fadeaway three pointers, and we go down.

As usual, last night the team was on the plus with Fields on the floor and huge minus (-20) when JR was in. It happens for a while, you call it coincidence. It happens every frigging time, you need to look at your presumptions.


You can talk all that +- garbage all you want, I go with what I see on the court, and Fields isn't cutting it bruh. You said that Fields can be trusted to hit an open shot, well I just have to laugh at you...are you even watching these games? the guy can't even shoot FT's but you say you'd rather have him shooting over JR? :D Yeah he attacks the basket, and most of the time he either gets stripped, loses his handle, or doesn't finish. Fields is only effective offensively in situations that are favorable to him, and that wouldn't even matter if he could at least play solid defense to justify being on the court and he can't even do that since he's slow as molasses. Most teams/coaches, if given a choice between the two, would pick JR over Fields. No question about it.
NowWHYcee7
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,326
And1: 953
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
 

Re: Fields issue 

Post#111 » by NowWHYcee7 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:28 pm

seren wrote:
Yet, he has the highest shooting percentage among all guards on our team. It is not a question of whether Fields is better than Ray Allen. It is a question of whether he is better than JR who he is losing minutes to.

I would rather go with a guy who moves the ball, attacks the basket, and takes good shots over a guy who shoots fadeaway threes because he is "creating" shots. Newsflash: That is not creating shots. That is chucking.


JR has made more "bad shots" than Fields has "good shots," what's the point of taking good shots if you're most likely going to miss most of them? Landry is losing minutes to JR for a reason. You don't like JR, that's fine, he's not my ideal SG either to be perfectly honest, but don't act like its a mystery that JR is playing more than him. It's really not that complicated.
seren
RealGM
Posts: 24,134
And1: 4,188
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Fields issue 

Post#112 » by seren » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:28 pm

NowWHYcee7 wrote:
seren wrote:
Can't be far from the truth. I like Fields because he is a positive on the floor. He moves the ball, attacks the basket. We play a team ball, we get ahead. JR comes in, "creates" his fadeaway three pointers, and we go down.

As usual, last night the team was on the plus with Fields on the floor and huge minus (-20) when JR was in. It happens for a while, you call it coincidence. It happens every frigging time, you need to look at your presumptions.


You can talk all that +- garbage all you want, I go with what I see on the court, and Fields isn't cutting it bruh. You said that Fields can be trusted to hit an open shot, well I just have to laugh at you...are you even watching these games? the guy can't even shoot FT's but you say you'd rather have him shooting over JR? :D Yeah he attacks the basket, and most of the time he either gets stripped, loses his handle, or doesn't finish. Fields is only effective offensively in situations that are favorable to him, and that wouldn't even matter if he could at least play solid defense to justify being on the court and he can't even do that since he's slow as molasses. Most teams/coaches, if given a choice between the two, would pick JR over Fields. No question about it.


Your problem is that you are not watching games. +- is not garbage. Team is 6 points ahead, Fields goes out and JR comes in. Team suddenly falls down by 9. How is that garbage?

You may not trust Fields with an open shot, fine. The difference is you cannot trust JR with anything. I know it is irrelevant to you, but Fields goes to the line more than JR does and turns the ball over less than JR does.

If you want a guy who shoots less than 40 percent from the floor, garbage from the three, don't go to the line, don't involve any teammate and overall shoots like he is a superstar, sure go with JR.
seren
RealGM
Posts: 24,134
And1: 4,188
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Fields issue 

Post#113 » by seren » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:29 pm

NowWHYcee7 wrote:
seren wrote:
Yet, he has the highest shooting percentage among all guards on our team. It is not a question of whether Fields is better than Ray Allen. It is a question of whether he is better than JR who he is losing minutes to.

I would rather go with a guy who moves the ball, attacks the basket, and takes good shots over a guy who shoots fadeaway threes because he is "creating" shots. Newsflash: That is not creating shots. That is chucking.


JR has made more "bad shots" than Fields has "good shots," what's the point of taking good shots if you're most likely going to miss most of them? Landry is losing minutes to JR for a reason. You don't like JR, that's fine, he's not my ideal SG either to be perfectly honest, but don't act like its a mystery that JR is playing more than him. It's really not that complicated.


The shooting percentage does not agree with you, but obviously it is not relevant to you as statistics don't seem to matter for you.
User avatar
gavran
RealGM
Posts: 17,091
And1: 7,163
Joined: Nov 02, 2005
Location: crossing the line

Re: Fields issue 

Post#114 » by gavran » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:34 pm

seren wrote:
Your problem is that you are not watching games. +- is not garbage. Team is 6 points ahead, Fields goes out and JR comes in. Team suddenly falls down by 9. How is that garbage?

You may not trust Fields with an open shot, fine. The difference is you cannot trust JR with anything. I know it is irrelevant to you, but Fields goes to the line more than JR does and turns the ball over less than JR does.

If you want a guy who shoots less than 40 percent from the floor, garbage from the three, don't go to the line, don't involve any teammate and overall shoots like he is a superstar, sure go with JR.

+/- for one game IS a garbage stat. +/- for a long period is pretty telling, and Fields is by far the best in this category.

BUTZ HE DOEZN'T CUTZ TEH EYEZBALLZ TEST BRUH SON!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 132,763
And1: 125,741
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: Fields issue 

Post#115 » by god shammgod » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:35 pm

seren wrote:
NowWHYcee7 wrote:
seren wrote:
Yet, he has the highest shooting percentage among all guards on our team. It is not a question of whether Fields is better than Ray Allen. It is a question of whether he is better than JR who he is losing minutes to.

I would rather go with a guy who moves the ball, attacks the basket, and takes good shots over a guy who shoots fadeaway threes because he is "creating" shots. Newsflash: That is not creating shots. That is chucking.


JR has made more "bad shots" than Fields has "good shots," what's the point of taking good shots if you're most likely going to miss most of them? Landry is losing minutes to JR for a reason. You don't like JR, that's fine, he's not my ideal SG either to be perfectly honest, but don't act like its a mystery that JR is playing more than him. It's really not that complicated.


The shooting percentage does not agree with you, but obviously it is not relevant to you as statistics don't seem to matter for you.


neither fields or jr are playing great right now. it's almost silly to argue over who's better.
NowWHYcee7
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,326
And1: 953
Joined: Feb 27, 2011
 

Re: Fields issue 

Post#116 » by NowWHYcee7 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:45 pm

god shammgod wrote:
neither fields or jr are playing great right now. it's almost silly to argue over who's better.


you're right but when people try to make the case that fields is that much better than JR to the point where he deserves more minutes than him it's a little comical. JR can catch fire and hit 4 or 5 shots in a row, plus play pretty good defense to boot. Fields can't do that. I think it was JVG who said that if you are going to be on the floor, you have to pose some sort of threat to the other team, if you don't, you become a liability and a detriment to your own team. Makes sense to me.
seren
RealGM
Posts: 24,134
And1: 4,188
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Fields issue 

Post#117 » by seren » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:52 pm

NowWHYcee7 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
neither fields or jr are playing great right now. it's almost silly to argue over who's better.


you're right but when people try to make the case that fields is that much better than JR to the point where he deserves more minutes than him it's a little comical. JR can catch fire and hit 4 or 5 shots in a row, plus play pretty good defense to boot. Fields can't do that. I think it was JVG who said that if you are going to be on the floor, you have to pose some sort of threat to the other team, if you don't, you become a liability and a detriment to your own team. Makes sense to me.


You are talking about a probability. On paper, you might be right. We are still waiting for actual on court performance. Problem is we are losing games in the process. I am not sure we can afford to that this late in the season. Look at Dallas. Sure on paper Odom looked great. It did not work out. They chose to cut their losses.
User avatar
Sark
RealGM
Posts: 19,274
And1: 16,044
Joined: Sep 21, 2010
Location: Merry Pills
 

Re: Fields issue 

Post#118 » by Sark » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:57 pm

JR Smith gives you double figures off the bench on most nights. Plus he can actually dribble the ball, and gives you a secondary ball handler. Landry Fields barely scratches double figures on most nights, and is only better than Tyson Chandler when it comes to dribbling. I think the dribbling aspect is way too overlooked. I think it's quite pathetic that a back court player can't be trusted with the ball in his hands.
iHeartKNicks
Pro Prospect
Posts: 911
And1: 111
Joined: Feb 20, 2010
Location: Queens. Get the money

Re: Fields issue 

Post#119 » by iHeartKNicks » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:59 pm

seren wrote:
iHeartKNicks wrote:Right now JR is the only guy besides Melo that can break his man down off the dribble. The two problems we have with JR is that he doesn't take it to the rack enough & he doesn't know when to not shoot.
Fields has to be more aggressive and hit open shots.


Right now JR breaks his man down off the dribble and shoots a fadeaway three. I don't know what is good about that.

Fields is definitely more aggressive than JR. And he does hit open shots. Two qualities that can't be said about JR.

I wasn't expressing joy in what JR's doing my point was Fields can't do that thats why JR gets more minutes.
With the way the team is constructed this very moment we need someone not named Carmelo who can break his man down on the iso. It just so happens that the ball isn't going through the hoop but I don't see how substituting Fields for JR is going to improve the offense. If JR would stop forcing so many bad jumpshots and use his skills to get to the rim, the team would play better and Novak would also get more open jumpshots.
Twitter: AntBloom
IG: Antbloom
THE KNICKS WILL PREVAIL… eventually
seren
RealGM
Posts: 24,134
And1: 4,188
Joined: Jul 21, 2002

Re: Fields issue 

Post#120 » by seren » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:27 pm

iHeartKNicks wrote:
seren wrote:
iHeartKNicks wrote:Right now JR is the only guy besides Melo that can break his man down off the dribble. The two problems we have with JR is that he doesn't take it to the rack enough & he doesn't know when to not shoot.
Fields has to be more aggressive and hit open shots.


Right now JR breaks his man down off the dribble and shoots a fadeaway three. I don't know what is good about that.

Fields is definitely more aggressive than JR. And he does hit open shots. Two qualities that can't be said about JR.

I wasn't expressing joy in what JR's doing my point was Fields can't do that thats why JR gets more minutes.
With the way the team is constructed this very moment we need someone not named Carmelo who can break his man down on the iso. It just so happens that the ball isn't going through the hoop but I don't see how substituting Fields for JR is going to improve the offense. If JR would stop forcing so many bad jumpshots and use his skills to get to the rim, the team would play better and Novak would also get more open jumpshots.


Ball movement. Someone cutting to the basket. Off the ball movement. Important concepts. Think about it.

Return to New York Knicks