Fields issue

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Stop what? JR caused a 20 point turnaround last night. We were outscored by 20 points when JR was on the floor. Compare that to Fields. We outscored the Bulls last night when Fields was on the floor.

It happens one night, it is a coincidence. It happens every frigging night and you are telling me to stop?

Correlation does not equal causation. This is a team game. You can't say that one player caused a team to go up, and one player caused the lead to turn into a deficit.

It seems like you are trying to use +/- as a way to justify who should be playing. +/- is probably the worst stat you can use to make an estimation of who is doing what on the floor.

Any actual evidence to support your argument?

[Knickstape1214]

That +/- is useless?

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That +/- is useless?

yep.

[Knickstape1214]

That +/- is useless?

yep.

Matt Bonner has the best +/- on the Spurs (and 9th highest in the NBA).

[seren]

That +/- is useless?

yep.

Matt Bonner has the best +/- on the Spurs (and 9th highest in the NBA).

And you believe Matt Bonner should get less minutes and someone else gets more minutes?

What you need is an example where a player is on the minus side for a winning team that the team prefers the particular player over another one who is clearly on the positive side.

[JBravo7777]

Wilbon was on 1050 today. Was asked about the game yesterday. He said Shump/Fields make a great tandem and mentioned about the chemistry. He said he does not understand why Woodson is playing JR so much. They mentioned about the possibility that it is because JR is a CAA client. Is this true? Do anyone think this may have some contribution to overusing JR? Dude is getting minutes he never got in Denver.

Wilbon is a Bulls fan so he wants Fields on the floor..The Bulls got away with putting Noah on Fields. That shows you how much respect the Bulls coaching staff has for Landry Fields! That put a center on him and were never worried.. JR is way better than Fields on the defensive end of the floor and its not even close when it comes to ball handling and 3 point shooting and free throw shooting. Its a no brainer to have JR finish games over Fields. Dantoni would of quickly yanked JR out of that game. Give Woodson credit for sticking with JR even when he is struggling because he helped win that game at the end.

[seren]

Wilbon was on 1050 today. Was asked about the game yesterday. He said Shump/Fields make a great tandem and mentioned about the chemistry. He said he does not understand why Woodson is playing JR so much. They mentioned about the possibility that it is because JR is a CAA client. Is this true? Do anyone think this may have some contribution to overusing JR? Dude is getting minutes he never got in Denver.

Wilbon is a Bulls fan so he wants Fields on the floor..The Bulls got away with putting Noah on Fields. That shows you how much respect the Bulls coaching staff has for Landry Fields! That put a center on him and were never worried.. JR is way better than Fields on the defensive end of the floor and its not even close when it comes to ball handling and 3 point shooting and free throw shooting. Its a no brainer to have JR finish games over Fields. Dantoni would of quickly yanked JR out of that game. Give Woodson credit for sticking with JR even when he is struggling because he helped win that game at the end.

We outscored the Bulls when Fields was on the floor last night. When JR was on the floor we were outscored dearly. We are talking about a 20 point difference here.

[Knickstape1214]

yep.

Matt Bonner has the best +/- on the Spurs (and 9th highest in the NBA).

And you believe Matt Bonner should get less minutes and someone else gets more minutes?

You asked for an example of +/- being rendered useless. I provided one.

Edit -- didn't see your edit. Gimme a sec...I'll see if I can find one.

Can't find one -- but another misleading example of +/- is Shawn Marion this year: -19.

[JBravo7777]

Wilbon was on 1050 today. Was asked about the game yesterday. He said Shump/Fields make a great tandem and mentioned about the chemistry. He said he does not understand why Woodson is playing JR so much. They mentioned about the possibility that it is because JR is a CAA client. Is this true? Do anyone think this may have some contribution to overusing JR? Dude is getting minutes he never got in Denver.

Wilbon is a Bulls fan so he wants Fields on the floor..The Bulls got away with putting Noah on Fields. That shows you how much respect the Bulls coaching staff has for Landry Fields! That put a center on him and were never worried.. JR is way better than Fields on the defensive end of the floor and its not even close when it comes to ball handling and 3 point shooting and free throw shooting. Its a no brainer to have JR finish games over Fields. Dantoni would of quickly yanked JR out of that game. Give Woodson credit for sticking with JR even when he is struggling because he helped win that game at the end.

We outscored the Bulls when Fields was on the floor last night. When JR was on the floor we were outscored dearly. We are talking about a 20 point difference here.

That was one game. Lets remember that JR is coming off the bench and playing with Jefferies and Toney Douglas. Fields plays most of his mins with Chandler Shump and Melo so he can hide behind our better players and still look good.

[seren]

Matt Bonner has the best +/- on the Spurs (and 9th highest in the NBA).

And you believe Matt Bonner should get less minutes and someone else gets more minutes?

You asked for an example of +/- being rendered useless. I provided one.

Edit -- didn't see your edit. Gimme a sec...I'll see if I can find one.

Not really. Matt Bonner is a net contributor to a championship level team. He is shooting a great percentage from threes. I would take him over JR Smith for sure.

[seren]

That was one game. Lets remember that JR is coming off the bench and playing with Jefferies and Toney Douglas. Fields plays most of his mins with Chandler Shump and Melo so he can hide behind our better players and still look good.

That was a continuation of the Sunday game which he was even worse. The interesting thing is the starting lineup gets worse when JR is part of it. Coincidence? No. Zero ball movement and fast breaks from long rebounds of chucking does that to you.

[Knickstape1214]

And you believe Matt Bonner should get less minutes and someone else gets more minutes?

You asked for an example of +/- being rendered useless. I provided one.

Edit -- didn't see your edit. Gimme a sec...I'll see if I can find one.

Not really. Matt Bonner is a net contributor to a championship level team. He is shooting a great percentage from threes. I would take him over JR Smith for sure.

But he's not more important to his team than Duncan, Manu, Splitter (yes, Splitter), or Parker.

Shawn Marion has a "-" +/- this year.

Batum also has a "-" +/- this year.

[Sark]

Deron Williams and Marshon Brooks have 2 of the 3 worst +/- on the Nets. Clearly they need to get those guys off the floor, and maybe they can win some games.

[JBravo7777]

That was one game. Lets remember that JR is coming off the bench and playing with Jefferies and Toney Douglas. Fields plays most of his mins with Chandler Shump and Melo so he can hide behind our better players and still look good.

That was a continuation of the Sunday game which he was even worse. The interesting thing is the starting lineup gets worse when JR is part of it. Coincidence? No. Zero ball movement and fast breaks from long rebounds of chucking does that to you.

Since Woodson has taken over the Knicks are 11-4 and he has JR finishing with the starting lineup in almost every win. With Landry finishing games when Dantoni was coaching the Knicks were 6 games below 500.

[JustaKnickFan]

Fields has the highest +/- because he plays with the starters all the time, and the Knicks bench is usually the thing killing them. Especially now with Baron Davis and Shumpert starting. +/- is a good stat though.