New Knicks Forum Guidelines: Questions and Concerns Thread

[Rasho Brezec]

Okay. What about this, though?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1208491

[j4remi]

Okay. What about this, though?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1208491

I think the Isaiah aspect is what makes me hold it as relevant for discussion (though to be fair, I could see similarities with this one and the Lin wanted to finish his career as a Knick thread). The sad truth though, is that as long as Dolan's around Zeke's name will be the elephant in the room.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

Okay. What about this, though?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1208491

I think the Isaiah aspect is what makes me hold it as relevant for discussion (though to be fair, I could see similarities with this one and the Lin wanted to finish his career as a Knick thread). The sad truth though, is that as long as Dolan's around Zeke's name will be the elephant in the room.

Same with Lin. The crime may be over but the culprits are all still here.

[j4remi]

Okay. What about this, though?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1208491

I think the Isaiah aspect is what makes me hold it as relevant for discussion (though to be fair, I could see similarities with this one and the Lin wanted to finish his career as a Knick thread). The sad truth though, is that as long as Dolan's around Zeke's name will be the elephant in the room.

Same with Lin. The crime may be over but the culprits are all still here.

Key difference though is one of them is under contract with Houston for the next 3 years and the other is free to come back if Dolan makes that massive mistake...I don't think he will, but the possibility is there.

[Knicks_Fan2]

Question regarding why the Evans play post was locked? Understand its also appropriate for Around the NBA but it was pretty incredible and I thought worthy of its own post. No big deal just curious as to the reasoning.

[magnumt]

Question regarding why the Evans play post was locked? Understand its also appropriate for Around the NBA but it was pretty incredible and I thought worthy of its own post. No big deal just curious as to the reasoning.

You answered your own questions. The 1st post of the ATNBA Thread even says highlights as an example of what belongs in it.

It's not a black and white area, but has many shades of grey. Remi's responses have been exactly right. Use your common sense guys.

Things like major signings, etc are going to be occasionally allowed to be discussed freely the 1st time around, but NOT allowed to be repeatedly drummed up (like say the Lin situation), especially if that player is on another Team. Where A) you can use that Team's respective board to continue discussing them or B) use the ATNBA Thread.

Thanks,
--Mags

[Knicks_Fan2]

Question regarding why the Evans play post was locked? Understand its also appropriate for Around the NBA but it was pretty incredible and I thought worthy of its own post. No big deal just curious as to the reasoning.

You answered your own questions. The 1st post of the ATNBA Thread even says highlights as an example of what belongs in it.

It's not a black and white area, but has many shades of grey. Remi's responses have been exactly right. Use your common sense guys.

Things like major signings, etc are going to be occasionally allowed to be discussed freely the 1st time around, but NOT allowed to be repeatedly drummed up (like say the Lin situation), especially if that player is on another Team. Where A) you can use that Team's respective board to continue discussing them or B) use the ATNBA Thread.

Thanks,
--Mags

Thanks for the clarification.

[Knicksfan20]

Lol at users abusing the report button. Ive maybe hit that button 2 times since ive joined. What a buncha tattle tales.

IMO i could care less if a topic gets derailed or if people bait others. The easiest way to police that situation is just to not respond to the post. Plain and simple. The same people that get mad about the baiting are the same people that respond and argue.

A 13 hour ban is harsh IMO, unless your a repeat offender. If i "accidently" bait somone or if a moderator takes something as a bait and its not now i have to worry about being suspended?


Kinda silly if you ask me. The forum mods here know who the trouble makers are here, just allow them to police the forum as they see fit.

Just my 2 cents.

[knicksosmoove]

I am pretty much addressing this to the global mods:

I believe that the quality of this board has clearly deteriorated over the last year or so.

There is a crowd of posters that to me are "yes" men when it comes to the Knicks and they've more or less taken over this board. These are the people who write the "Melo hating in 3, 2, 1, ..." posts and the "this is going to become another Jeremy Lin thread isn't it ??????" posts. To them, anything criticizing Carmelo or the management is "negativity" and should be stifled. I think that is a silly, irrational notion because there are very substantial grounds on which one can criticize Carmelo and the Knicks' management.

There are some really good posters that you just don't see around as much anymore. TKF, duetta, dk7th, kane2021, Bill Bradley, and TrueWarrior to name a few off the top of my head. Maybe they're all busy or maybe they're feeling the way that I do which is that this board is not so much fun anymore. To be fair, I also think the Knicks aren't as fun anymore.

I think that someone should take the effort to oversee which threads the mods here are locking and what type of behavior they allow to happen. TKF was driven out by a relentless mob who frequently baited him and made personal attacks, but none of those posters were banned or even reprimanded. Yet you frequently see threads pertaining to management, Jeremy Lin, and Carmelo locked even if the conversation is being kept relatively civil.

It's hard to see a solution to this problem. I would suggest not allowing the mods to lock as many threads as a first step.

[Thugger HBC]

I am pretty much addressing this to the global mods:

I believe that the quality of this board has clearly deteriorated over the last year or so.

There is a crowd of posters that to me are "yes" men when it comes to the Knicks and they've more or less taken over this board. These are the people who write the "Melo hating in 3, 2, 1, ..." posts and the "this is going to become another Jeremy Lin thread isn't it ??????" posts. To them, anything criticizing Carmelo or the management is "negativity" and should be stifled. I think that is a silly, irrational notion because there are very substantial grounds on which one can criticize Carmelo and the Knicks' management.

There are some really good posters that you just don't see around as much anymore. TKF, duetta, dk7th, kane2021, Bill Bradley, and TrueWarrior to name a few off the top of my head. Maybe they're all busy or maybe they're feeling the way that I do which is that this board is not so much fun anymore. To be fair, I also think the Knicks aren't as fun anymore.

I think that someone should take the effort to oversee which threads the mods here are locking and what type of behavior they allow to happen. TKF was driven out by a relentless mob who frequently baited him and made personal attacks, but none of those posters were banned or even reprimanded. Yet you frequently see threads pertaining to management, Jeremy Lin, and Carmelo locked even if the conversation is being kept relatively civil.

It's hard to see a solution to this problem. I would suggest not allowing the mods to lock as many threads as a first step.

I realize this thought was directed on a level higher than mine, but I would like to help if i can....

There is a link to the actual new guidelines in the opening post, which I'd encourage you to read.

It's been truly crazy on here with some the developments with the Knicks and sides have been clearly formed.

No matter what a person feels about a player or team, I'm sure you'd expect to be able to express that thought and to visit the board and not feel unwelcome.

But those viewpoints have spilled into how we view and treat each other.

Those particular threads that you may be referring to I'd assume were locked because they overall will not promote quality fresh discussion.

I don't think it has anything to do with not being able to criticize Melo or the organization, and for me quite honestly that is all i see thread-wise, from a thread created for the sole purpose of bashing and bitching about the entire organization to having a thread for Lin who isn't a Knick anymore, but with the purpose of having such traffic filtered to one spot, which quite honestly could very well have been moved to the Houston board.

Now while I can truthfully say your post very well could be one that may "bait", (although not intentionally), posters by choice of words.

If a poster roots for the Knicks but isn't bashing Dolan in every post, they are identified as "sheep", and that is not right, no different than ones who can't tolerated any criticism of Jeremy Lin and post irrational, who isn't even a Knick anymore.

The goal overall is to clean up, and keep things inviting.

I just want to help where I can.

Hope this helps some, even if it wasn't directed my way.

[j4remi]

Just to add to what Thugger said, great response btw, there are plenty of posters who express pessimistic views without any issue besides debate...deeez and cgmw come to mind right away. The reason they can do so without issue is simple, they actually substantiate their complaints with reasonable evidence and discussion. When people post without adding anything substantial to the discussions, we're going to come down on them. That goes for both positive and negative sides of the coin (when we addressed baiting in the new guidelines, one of our main goals was to cut out the IB4 Melo Hate posts out of these threads). We're also focusing on cutting back redundant threads and posts, three Lin threads got locked...because people had an Everything Lin thread all summer and now have an Around the League thread to chat in (where Lin has been discussed PLENTY). On the opposite side of the coin a thread focusing on Felton outplaying Rondo was locked up because the discussion fit the post game thread. We're not promoting one view point, we're promoting actual discussions rather than the flaming, overly heated, pure bickering that has hurt this board recently.

[knicksosmoove]

yeah, but what you might call "bickering" I'll call "discussion." Some of us want to talk about Jeremy Lin and what not resigning him signified about this organization. I think it signified a lot. Honestly, that's just more interesting to me than to talk about how GREAT IT IS THAT AMAR'E IS WORKING OUT WITH HAKEEM or how EXCITED I AM FOR JASON KIDD'S VETERAN LEADERSHIP or how I THINK THE CAMBY MAN WILL MAKE US THE BEST DEFENSIVE TEAM IN THE LEAGUE.

I don't think those type of threads bring down the quality of this board nearly as much as the baiting and ad-hominem attacks that go on. I completely empathized with TKF because I had a couple of threads that brought out the mobs that he had to deal with every time he posted on this board. I think clamping down on the "LOL at this guy who thinks . . . " or "I can't believe people seriously think . . . " or the "where's the guy who said that . . . " (that's the biggest pet peeve of mine here, when people won't drop a discussion and bring it up later when they have a chance to "prove the other guy wrong" . . . in my opinion, that should be considered suspension-worthy behavior because it's mean-spirited) posts would be much more productive than clamping down on the Jeremy Lin threads. There are a lot of people who think that anyone who says anything negative regarding the Knicks is an idiot or wrong and while I don't think that those people should be banned by any means, I also don't think they should have the run of the board that they presently do and I also think that some of their baiting behavior needs to be checked more.

Basically, the effect of you guys locking the Lin threads, the Carmelo threads, and the Dolan threads is you're letting the optimistic (frankly, homeristic) fans get the edge on the fans who view this team with a more critical eye.

And yes, I know there are stickies, but those threads are mostly pretty stale by now.

[j4remi]

I don't know how you can call the Around the League thread stale...it's literally got new news and discussions every time there are games. Each Houston game has sparked PLENTY of Lin talk and that's the real issue. Is the front page better off with four separate threads about Lin, or would it be best served with one thread where people can discuss every aspect and news article addressing Lin?

Same thing with Dolan...Dolan threads aren't being locked, but if the front page is cluttered with similar threads, it's not worth addressing. Dolan/Melo/Amare...they're gonna get discussions with people feeling both ways. Threads are only going to be locked if the same discussion is being had in three or four separate threads or if the discussion has been derailed (if people are talking about Knicks defense and somehow someone leads that to Lin being a better PG than Felton...something's wrong).

And bickering is not discussion...Like I said, if you can't substantiate your posts with some real observations or statistics or a reasonable thought process...it's not of value. So the guy that says "Melo sucks" or "Same old Amare" gets far less leash than the guy who says "Melo's shot selection is still bad, he shot below 40% from the field tonight" or even "Same old Amare, he still gets lost on the defensive end."

As far as the baiting behaviors of positive fans, like I said...we're looking to curb that too. Especially the "where's the guy who was saying" and such. These rules aren't aimed at being one-sided, they're targeting behaviors that have happened on both sides of the coin.

[NYK Mentality]

I respect the mods around here, have always respected others, just love to talk basketball. But some of these rules are becoming total horse spit, while also taking away the enjoyment of lots of posters.

So, this is a basketball site... Right? Correct me where I'm wrong.

But yet, we can't have daily gameday threads discussing other teams any longer? That's a joke. Last year, I loved not only creating NBA Gameday threads (per night) but also reading through them. They die down as soon as the games are over (makes for great talk heading into games) and dies down until the next gameday thread (outside of the Knicks) is created the following night.

For example.

12-22-2012:
Miami vs Chicago.
76ers vs Pacers.
Celtics vs Thunder.
Nets vs Lakers.

But instead, we're forced to read through a cluster mess with the "Around the league thread". It's not really right.

Question. This is an NBA site right? A Knicks fan message board, correct? Well, then, why not have an OFFICIAL off topic thread since we also have an official around the NBA thread as well?

We wanna talk basketball outside of the Knicks, fine. But only do so inside of a cluster thread of a mess called "Around the NBA".

Then, why aren't all of these OT Threads forced to become one? What's fair is fair right? I'm here to talk basketball. Not OFF TOPIC stuff. Why not have an OFFICIAL Off-Topic forum? It's been done to basketball threads around here after all. You wanna talk Off Topic stuff? Fine. But do so inside of an official off topic thread. No?

I can't talk Jets football here, because... Well, RealGM has a Jets site, right? Well, then, why do we have 10 Off Topic threads on the first page here on the Knicks site?

OT: Bk Nets Apathy
OT: phones
OT: Fish oil treatment for severe brain injuries
OT Man attacked by employees at a Brooklyn 7-11
OT: J Crawford admits he has never worked on his game
OT:Man Wanted To Blow Up Federal Reserve & Kill Obama.
OT: Brooklyn Boxing-Showbox 10-20
OT: Lakers eye LBJ in two years?
OT: Lakers eye LBJ in two years?

Etc, etc.

But yet, we can't also talk about the Jets amongst other Knick fans? All because we already have a Jets site on RealGM? Well, then, please explain why all of these OT threads are allowed on our Knicks front page?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't we already have an Off Topic forum here on RealGM?

viewforum.php

There it is.

So... We can have all these off topic threads while threads such as

Wizards @ Cavs
Celtics @ Heat
Mavs @ Lakers

No longer deserve there own gameday threads come opening night of the 2012 NBA season?

So instead, posters, such as myself, when trying to discuss these games will be forced to read posters still arguing about what happened three days ago inside the "ALL AROUND THE NBA LEAGUE" Thread?

I don't agree that every NBA topic of discussion, outside of the Knicks, should be force fed down our throats with an "offical NBA thread". If Knick fans feel like talking about the top 10 NBA coaches? Deserves it's own thread. If this fan base wants to talk NBA rookies... It deserves it's own thread. If we feel like talking about games (and only games) per night... We deserve our own thread.

But instead, we have 10 off topic threads on the first page, of an NBA/Knicks message board. A little hypocritical, no?

[NBA Fan 1234]

A discussion on the around the league thread has already begun with the mods. Don't worry.

As for the OT threads, they are not going anywhere. You've been here long enough to know that we allow them here...

The new guidelines have been designed to promote discussion and get rid of the useless baiting and trolling that has been going on here for months.

We're not trying to get everyone to become homers. In fact, I think that would make this site much more hard to read. When posters decide to stop posting, it is their call. We have nothing to do with their decisions.

[Rasho Brezec]

I disagree with his stance on Jets talk on this board - football has its own board and needs more traffic, same with baseball and hockey - but he has a point, though.

Basketball related threads get locked and the discussion is directed to the Around the NBA thread, which is just a mess and impossible to concentrate on a specific topic. It actually discourages discussion, not promotes it. But the OT threads are allowed to go on and even though I'm guilty of posting in them, most of them are silly and really have no place here but belong in the OT board.

If you're really so adamant on allowing the OT threads to go on, why not ask the admins to create a Knicks OT subforum, like the one on Minor Leagues in the D-League board or the National Team Competitions in the International Basketball board? I'm pretty sure it would generate more traffic than all of those boards combined.

[j4remi]

Btw, no one has said anything about Gameday threads...It's the PRESEASON...thus, no Game Day Threads. The OT threads are something that make this board unique and in the offseason/preseason the OT portion of the board always thrives. As for Jets/Giants/Yankee threads, typically I've noticed that they don't get locked or shut down...after a while they get moved over to the proper forum because those forums need traffic (I'm on the Jets forum every game day).

I don't get the dislike for the OT threads, since I've posted here they've been a big part of the boards and promoted a more communal feel to this place. People actually post personal stories and get advice around this way and it's cool to see. If it's just anger with the Around the NBA thread then that's worth discussing. I think once the season starts, if we have game day threads going up then the Around the NBA thread can be used for news only and it will all be a lot easier to sift through. It's all an experiment.

[knicksosmoove]

We're not trying to get everyone to become homers. In fact, I think that would make this site much more hard to read. When posters decide to stop posting, it is their call. We have nothing to do with their decisions.

You do have something to do with their decisions to leave. You could focus on cutting out the mobs and the baiting and you could stop locking threads regarding Lin, Carmelo, and Dolan so much.

[Thugger HBC]

The Lin thread in itself was really nothing wrong, even ran for pretty much the whole summer.

It just reached its life expectancy as he is now a Rocket and the season is underway.

There has been a few OT Lin threads which were not immediately locked.

I'm sure the Houston board has no issues with more traffic with insightful thoughts on Lin though.

As far as Melo and Dolan etc....

There was a thread all summer for the posting of dislike of those any of Knicks members.

Sometimes things just reach their life expectations, but in all the experience should at the least be entertaining enjoyable and inviting.

Sent from my Asus TR700T-B1-GR using Xparent Sky Blue Tapatalk 2

[knicksosmoove]

I've been in several Lin threads that were cut short by a random mod who disapproved of it. So what if there were other Lin threads? Those threads were good and lively and just because those sort of threads tend to attract the fans who have negative things to say about the Knicks doesn't mean they're inherently bad. Usually, the threads were started because there was some sort of fresh take on the matter like when an interview with Jeremy was published.

I think you guys would do better to stop focusing on that behavior and start focusing on the baiting and the mobs that form on this board. that's what's really bringing the quality down.