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This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship

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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#81 » by Signature NYK » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:12 pm

Hopefully Woody taught Amare how to Post and Help Defend in the Offense. Aswell as pass out of the paint effectively. OH and BOx-Out (Lol damn you Dantoni why the hell did you have to be STAT"S HC)

I do however believe we would have won this game if he were playing. His interior Scoring is much needed and he is another scorer they have to deal with. And he can still provide 7+ rebounds.

Melo wouldn't have to guard Marc Gasol in the post. Amare isn't a better defender than Melo at all but he is a Big Body. Gasol is simply to big for Melo to guard.

I hope KT and Camby get more minutes when we have to play 2 Big Guys in the Paint like Z-bo and Marc or Pau and D-12 or Noah and Boozer, Faried and McGee
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#82 » by god shammgod » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:14 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:We do need Amar'e. The only way you get away with being undersized long term in the NBA is if you're flat out better and physically able to handle the size mismatch. The Grizz exposed the Knicks last night. It had nothing to do with the refs and nothing to do with the back-to-back. They are too talented and big in the front court for us. That's why they smashed other high-level small ball playing teams in the HEAT and OKC, too. That's why they're on a seven game winstreak. They had the players to chase us off the three point line and they didn't need to double anybody in the post. on the other end they pass too well to double and they exploited every mismatch they had.

Think, the only team to beat them was the Clippers. Why? Because they can match up. They can have the natural matchup of Jordan on Gasol and Griffin on Randolph. Melo isn't winning any matchup against a PF like Randolph. That's why they hid him on Gasol. They figured he'd be in less foul trouble because Randolph was exploiting the mismatch early and offensive rebounding everything.

The problem is the Grizz aren't stupid and they went at Melo whereever he was. Z-Bo is too strong and too low for Chandler so he just bodied into his legs and got him out of rebounding position. Chandler had 0 rebounds in the first half. I know we've been complaining about the officiating but the bigger, stronger team got the calls.

What Amar'e does is let Chandler go up against the natural matchup in Gasol. Amar'e matches up with Z-Bo who has to track his athleticism and gets Z-Bo involved in more centre of the floor pick and rolls where he can be exploited. Then Melo also has the advantage of dealing exclusively with Rudy Gay.

The game changed a little bit when Woodson freed Kurt Thomas. z-Bo didn't rebound as well against an equally groud bound Thomas because he couldn't just push him in the back and send him under the rim. Amar'e can give you that same resistance from the start and be more of an offensive threat.


i think not matching up with them was a mistake on woody's part. we kept it close in the first half but it was obvious that they were exploiting us. he should have adjusted. i hope he's more flexible with our lineup when we play bigger teams in the future.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#83 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:30 pm

prophet_of_rage wrote:We do need Amar'e. The only way you get away with being undersized long term in the NBA is if you're flat out better and physically able to handle the size mismatch. The Grizz exposed the Knicks last night. It had nothing to do with the refs and nothing to do with the back-to-back. They are too talented and big in the front court for us. That's why they smashed other high-level small ball playing teams in the HEAT and OKC, too. That's why they're on a seven game winstreak. They had the players to chase us off the three point line and they didn't need to double anybody in the post. on the other end they pass too well to double and they exploited every mismatch they had.

Think, the only team to beat them was the Clippers. Why? Because they can match up. They can have the natural matchup of Jordan on Gasol and Griffin on Randolph. Melo isn't winning any matchup against a PF like Randolph. That's why they hid him on Gasol. They figured he'd be in less foul trouble because Randolph was exploiting the mismatch early and offensive rebounding everything.

The problem is the Grizz aren't stupid and they went at Melo whereever he was. Z-Bo is too strong and too low for Chandler so he just bodied into his legs and got him out of rebounding position. Chandler had 0 rebounds in the first half. I know we've been complaining about the officiating but the bigger, stronger team got the calls.

What Amar'e does is let Chandler go up against the natural matchup in Gasol. Amar'e matches up with Z-Bo who has to track his athleticism and gets Z-Bo involved in more centre of the floor pick and rolls where he can be exploited. Then Melo also has the advantage of dealing exclusively with Rudy Gay.

The game changed a little bit when Woodson freed Kurt Thomas. z-Bo didn't rebound as well against an equally groud bound Thomas because he couldn't just push him in the back and send him under the rim. Amar'e can give you that same resistance from the start and be more of an offensive threat.

This remains to be seen. We're talking about a guy who gave up 31 board to Kevin Love, who is similar to Randolph.

Where Amare really would have helped us this game is with scoring once Melo got in foul trouble. You can put him in for Melo at the 4 and run a lot of the same sets.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#84 » by Sprewell4Three » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:38 pm

It really doesn't because we would've lost even with Amare in the linuep. Amare doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend. Two things that Memphis bigs would've exploited.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#85 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:45 pm

Memphis is a tough matchup for us and a lot of teams. Glad they are in the west.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#86 » by cgmw » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:26 pm

Sprewell4Three wrote:It really doesn't because we would've lost even with Amare in the linuep. Amare doesn't rebound and he doesn't defend. Two things that Memphis bigs would've exploited.

Agreed.

Playing Melo on Gay the entire game might have made a difference. But it's not like Woodson couldn't have just started Rasheed like a lot of people (including Melo, apparently) were calling for.

The thing about Amar'e being out is that he's absent. And his absence makes him a figure of hope for fans to rationalize away all adversity between now and when he comes back.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#87 » by god shammgod » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:43 pm

seems woody is admitting that he should have tried to match up to them
Woodson said his team will make “adjustments” the next time it faces Memphis.

“That’s a decision we made,” he said. “We got to live [with it] and move on.’’
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#88 » by KingzAndQueenz » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:50 pm

woody's still learning with a new team...let's not forget this..the rate he's going at his his been impressive though
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#89 » by Pharmcat » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:52 pm

this team needs amare to win no doubt

need a consistent 2nd option to take the load of melo
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#90 » by Knick Swisher » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:01 pm

The only thing I'll speculate about last night is that STAT would have kept Melo out of foul trouble. Contrary to what most say, we don't know what Stat would have done on the glass or on d

Regardless of last night, we obviously need Amare AND Shump to have a chance. That's not debatable
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#91 » by Knick Swisher » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:07 pm

god shammgod wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:We do need Amar'e. The only way you get away with being undersized long term in the NBA is if you're flat out better and physically able to handle the size mismatch. The Grizz exposed the Knicks last night. It had nothing to do with the refs and nothing to do with the back-to-back. They are too talented and big in the front court for us. That's why they smashed other high-level small ball playing teams in the HEAT and OKC, too. That's why they're on a seven game winstreak. They had the players to chase us off the three point line and they didn't need to double anybody in the post. on the other end they pass too well to double and they exploited every mismatch they had.

Think, the only team to beat them was the Clippers. Why? Because they can match up. They can have the natural matchup of Jordan on Gasol and Griffin on Randolph. Melo isn't winning any matchup against a PF like Randolph. That's why they hid him on Gasol. They figured he'd be in less foul trouble because Randolph was exploiting the mismatch early and offensive rebounding everything.

The problem is the Grizz aren't stupid and they went at Melo whereever he was. Z-Bo is too strong and too low for Chandler so he just bodied into his legs and got him out of rebounding position. Chandler had 0 rebounds in the first half. I know we've been complaining about the officiating but the bigger, stronger team got the calls.

What Amar'e does is let Chandler go up against the natural matchup in Gasol. Amar'e matches up with Z-Bo who has to track his athleticism and gets Z-Bo involved in more centre of the floor pick and rolls where he can be exploited. Then Melo also has the advantage of dealing exclusively with Rudy Gay.

The game changed a little bit when Woodson freed Kurt Thomas. z-Bo didn't rebound as well against an equally groud bound Thomas because he couldn't just push him in the back and send him under the rim. Amar'e can give you that same resistance from the start and be more of an offensive threat.


i think not matching up with them was a mistake on woody's part. we kept it close in the first half but it was obvious that they were exploiting us. he should have adjusted. i hope he's more flexible with our lineup when we play bigger teams in the future.

Agreed. When Amare went down and Woody said he'd adjust the lineups based on who we're playing, I assumed last night would be on of the nights. I thought Melo at the four was a bad idea, but seeing those tweets that Melo would be guarding Gasol had me scratching my head.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#92 » by spree2kawhi » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:22 pm

This team would have needed ten minutes of chandler, wallace, melo, brewer and felton together. it would have kept fouls down and given us great spacing as well as scoring and defense. dont want to overrate rasheed but from the way he played last night, this doesn't seem like a fluke. he's not fast on D, but against such a big memphis lineup, this is the way I'd play.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#93 » by yaboynyp » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:43 pm

This game proved Memphis’ is still in the west and we are still in the east. Unless you think Memphis is going to win the west than we will not see Memphis. Memphis’ front line is not the norm in the NBA..
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#94 » by Knicker23 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:47 pm

Yeah I don't think this has anything to do with Amare.... Sure we could use his 18 points, just like we could have in the first 6 games in which we won. But would Stat have stopped Zbo from RBing? Buckled down and locked in on them defensively? I wouldn't put a ton of money on it.

Having the talent of Stat on the floor will be big to break up the pressure on Melo and Ray. I for one am starting to think it really isn't going to be 'that bad' when he does come back -- i'm confident in Felton/Kidd/Pablo 's ability to make it work with him on the floor w Melo - especially Felton.

We lost this game because Woodson's plan of putting Melo on Gasol failed .. The refs were rediculous and ruined the 3rd Q .. And bc Memphis is playing at a very high level right now -- we gave them a tougher battle on a back to back after playing the Spurs than both the Thunder and the Heat did.... "proof we need Amare" means nothing.

This teams ultimate ceiling is having Amare Iman and everyone on the court and playing well together. They bring talent that if being used correctly brings us to a level we can't get to right now. IF Stat locks in on D, and Melo/Stat work well together with help from competent PGs, we will be all the better for it.

This thread was coming upon the first loss no matter what -- it took ya 7 games tho.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#95 » by Leaguepass » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:12 pm

The thing is that Amar'e is still one of the best pick and roll guys in the league. Sure Randolph would get 20/15 on Amar'e as well but Stat can easily score 30 on the other hand on Randolph. That said there is no need to worry...Memphis and maybe the Lakers are the only two teams in the league with such lowpost prowess and as far as I remember Tyson always limits Howard..Memphis is just not a great matchup for us but they are really a strong team. If they had a deeper bench I could see them beat anybody actually.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#96 » by GetItDone » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:14 pm

I wouldn't go this far, but I do want to give him his chance when he comes back and reunited with Felton, who had great chemistry.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#97 » by Knicks_Fan2 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:19 pm

Best part of this thread has been people excusing amares play last year on the back injury (which is sort of fair) as support for the proposition that he will dominate this year when ignoring that he just had a knee procedure

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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#98 » by makeitstop » Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:14 pm

cgmw wrote:
StephNYKurry wrote:The marginalization of Amare Stoudemire is getting really ridiculous.

The myth that he'll be a savior is also ridiculous, but fans do like their hope.


Are we looking for him to be a savior or a contributor?

A lot of people here are claiming he can't be either, and that's really selling the guy short, IMO.

It's kind of a stupid outlook when you think about it.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#99 » by R-DAWG » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:07 pm

I think what the game proved is that we need another elite star in his prime to be on Miami's level. Problem is, Amare isn't that guy. I'd actually say we needed David Lee more than Amare last night.
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Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship 

Post#100 » by NYKat » Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:21 pm

There was a discussion in the PG thread about Chandler being overrated defensively, I think theres some merit to that and call me crazy, but defensively that is an area where Stat can help us improve, cause Chandler is thus far deficient in that area, I think we're currently last in the league in shot blocking. The first half of the season before Melo arrived we led the league in shot blocking and Stat was a huge part of that

so, yeah

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