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This game is proof we need Amare to win a championship

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Post#91 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:07 pm by Knick Swisher

god shammgod wrote:
prophet_of_rage wrote:We do need Amar'e. The only way you get away with being undersized long term in the NBA is if you're flat out better and physically able to handle the size mismatch. The Grizz exposed the Knicks last night. It had nothing to do with the refs and nothing to do with the back-to-back. They are too talented and big in the front court for us. That's why they smashed other high-level small ball playing teams in the HEAT and OKC, too. That's why they're on a seven game winstreak. They had the players to chase us off the three point line and they didn't need to double anybody in the post. on the other end they pass too well to double and they exploited every mismatch they had.

Think, the only team to beat them was the Clippers. Why? Because they can match up. They can have the natural matchup of Jordan on Gasol and Griffin on Randolph. Melo isn't winning any matchup against a PF like Randolph. That's why they hid him on Gasol. They figured he'd be in less foul trouble because Randolph was exploiting the mismatch early and offensive rebounding everything.

The problem is the Grizz aren't stupid and they went at Melo whereever he was. Z-Bo is too strong and too low for Chandler so he just bodied into his legs and got him out of rebounding position. Chandler had 0 rebounds in the first half. I know we've been complaining about the officiating but the bigger, stronger team got the calls.

What Amar'e does is let Chandler go up against the natural matchup in Gasol. Amar'e matches up with Z-Bo who has to track his athleticism and gets Z-Bo involved in more centre of the floor pick and rolls where he can be exploited. Then Melo also has the advantage of dealing exclusively with Rudy Gay.

The game changed a little bit when Woodson freed Kurt Thomas. z-Bo didn't rebound as well against an equally groud bound Thomas because he couldn't just push him in the back and send him under the rim. Amar'e can give you that same resistance from the start and be more of an offensive threat.


i think not matching up with them was a mistake on woody's part. we kept it close in the first half but it was obvious that they were exploiting us. he should have adjusted. i hope he's more flexible with our lineup when we play bigger teams in the future.

Agreed. When Amare went down and Woody said he'd adjust the lineups based on who we're playing, I assumed last night would be on of the nights. I thought Melo at the four was a bad idea, but seeing those tweets that Melo would be guarding Gasol had me scratching my head.
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Post#92 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:22 pm by basketboule

This team would have needed ten minutes of chandler, wallace, melo, brewer and felton together. it would have kept fouls down and given us great spacing as well as scoring and defense. dont want to overrate rasheed but from the way he played last night, this doesn't seem like a fluke. he's not fast on D, but against such a big memphis lineup, this is the way I'd play.
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Post#93 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:43 pm by yaboynyp

This game proved Memphis’ is still in the west and we are still in the east. Unless you think Memphis is going to win the west than we will not see Memphis. Memphis’ front line is not the norm in the NBA..
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Post#94 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:47 pm by Knicker23

Yeah I don't think this has anything to do with Amare.... Sure we could use his 18 points, just like we could have in the first 6 games in which we won. But would Stat have stopped Zbo from RBing? Buckled down and locked in on them defensively? I wouldn't put a ton of money on it.

Having the talent of Stat on the floor will be big to break up the pressure on Melo and Ray. I for one am starting to think it really isn't going to be 'that bad' when he does come back -- i'm confident in Felton/Kidd/Pablo 's ability to make it work with him on the floor w Melo - especially Felton.

We lost this game because Woodson's plan of putting Melo on Gasol failed .. The refs were rediculous and ruined the 3rd Q .. And bc Memphis is playing at a very high level right now -- we gave them a tougher battle on a back to back after playing the Spurs than both the Thunder and the Heat did.... "proof we need Amare" means nothing.

This teams ultimate ceiling is having Amare Iman and everyone on the court and playing well together. They bring talent that if being used correctly brings us to a level we can't get to right now. IF Stat locks in on D, and Melo/Stat work well together with help from competent PGs, we will be all the better for it.

This thread was coming upon the first loss no matter what -- it took ya 7 games tho.
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Post#95 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:12 pm by Leaguepass

The thing is that Amar'e is still one of the best pick and roll guys in the league. Sure Randolph would get 20/15 on Amar'e as well but Stat can easily score 30 on the other hand on Randolph. That said there is no need to worry...Memphis and maybe the Lakers are the only two teams in the league with such lowpost prowess and as far as I remember Tyson always limits Howard..Memphis is just not a great matchup for us but they are really a strong team. If they had a deeper bench I could see them beat anybody actually.
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Post#96 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:14 pm by GetItDone

I wouldn't go this far, but I do want to give him his chance when he comes back and reunited with Felton, who had great chemistry.
ThatsWhatIShved wrote:Disrespectfull thread. I would take 06 Arenas over Lebron. Other than traveling and suspected PED use, what does Lebron have over Gil?
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Post#97 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:19 pm by Knicks_Fan2

Best part of this thread has been people excusing amares play last year on the back injury (which is sort of fair) as support for the proposition that he will dominate this year when ignoring that he just had a knee procedure

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Post#98 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:14 pm by makeitstop

cgmw wrote:
StephNYKurry wrote:The marginalization of Amare Stoudemire is getting really ridiculous.

The myth that he'll be a savior is also ridiculous, but fans do like their hope.


Are we looking for him to be a savior or a contributor?

A lot of people here are claiming he can't be either, and that's really selling the guy short, IMO.

It's kind of a stupid outlook when you think about it.
The Knicks board is like a group of pre-teen Twilight fans. -Waya
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Post#99 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:07 pm by R-DAWG

I think what the game proved is that we need another elite star in his prime to be on Miami's level. Problem is, Amare isn't that guy. I'd actually say we needed David Lee more than Amare last night.
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Post#100 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:21 pm by NYKat

There was a discussion in the PG thread about Chandler being overrated defensively, I think theres some merit to that and call me crazy, but defensively that is an area where Stat can help us improve, cause Chandler is thus far deficient in that area, I think we're currently last in the league in shot blocking. The first half of the season before Melo arrived we led the league in shot blocking and Stat was a huge part of that

so, yeah
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Post#101 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:27 pm by AggO

I used to lead the pack in the #tradeamare camp on these boards for the last 2 years or so.


But watching these 7 or so games, but more importantly, the last two, have made me realize how badly we need Amare vs good teams.

First, SAS

They took Melo out of the game with physical fronting and contstant shading and double teams. They basically dared us to play perfectly on each possession to move the ball for open looks. By in large, we did. We made 2 key adjustments. First, we shied away from trying to dump the ball to Melo in the post by (FINALLY) letting Melo walk the ball up the court and play from the top of the key. ALl the legit stars and wingmen do this, it's to neutralize the double team. It's hard to pass out of the double team closing in late when you're in the wing with your back to the basket. It's easy to do it from the top of the key facing the basket. Our second adjustment was straight running the PNR and finding Melo later in the passing game. We couldve used Amare to generate easy buckets in the paint off that third and fourth pass. If you runt he PNR from the top of the key, spacing will not be an issue for Melo and Amare. We need a bigman who can hit the jumper inside the arc.

Vs MEM

Amare wouldve been even MORE helpful. MEM was so good at packing the paint vs our dribble penetration that they basically forced us into jumpshots. They closed out hard on the 3pt line and packed hte paint. Amare's ability to hit the open spot up jumpshot wouldve changed Felton's dribble drive and it wouldve stopped them from packing the paint so hard when felton made his move on the PNR. Defensively, we needed Amare more than ever. Zbo effectively put up 20-10 and no matter how much size Tyson has, it's hard to box out 2 guys every time off the floor. Amare sucks at rebounding, but if you take away 4 offensive rebounds they had, this game looks completely different.
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Post#102 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:55 pm by Dr. Detfink

One loss. Every one panics. Knicks win with D. Amare as 6th man, ok. The green light on D is going to save us vs physical teams? Don't think so.
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Post#103 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:17 pm by J0rdan4life42o

We certainly need a full squad to make a run for a title... Meaning we need Amare back, as well as Shump and a healthy Camby.

Last night proved that Woodson is human...he didn't adjust to their size...should have rolled with a biggeR lineup especially after seeing Gasol/Zack have their way with Melo. Not the end of the world. One game and the team fought back. I have a feeling we'll see a different outcome next time these 2 teams meet.
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Post#104 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:21 pm by D-BE-LAW

Honestly, the funniest thing about this is people actually think that a team is going to beat the miami heat in a 7 game series. Unless lebron gets injured, no one is beating the heat in a series.
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Post#105 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:26 pm by AggO

D-BE-LAW wrote:Honestly, the funniest thing about this is people actually think that a team is going to beat the miami heat in a 7 game series. Unless lebron gets injured, no one is beating the heat in a series.


have you watched the heat at all this year?

small ball

slow rotations on defense

still no bench scoring

sooner or later, small ball is going to wear down that team, and they already don't have any depth to begin with.
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Post#106 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:35 am by Knicker23

I wonder if rotating Stat and Chandler for one another is more of a key to acclimating Amare than worrying about Melo and Stat... Chandler isn't out of the game long enough to play Stat good minutes only when Chandler isn't on the floor, but I think it's more about Stat being better at the 5 than it is Melo and Stat 'coexisting' .. Plus you'd have Melo still at the 4 if he were on the court.

At least for the minutes that Chandler is on the bench anyway. The defense would likely prevent it from being sustainable though.
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Post#107 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:51 pm by Workforce250

Shump should be the one off the bench, period. Brewer comes off the bench, while Stat starts.

That's nuts having a player like Amare come off the bench.
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Post#108 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:11 pm by DRoberstonNYY

Workforce250 wrote:Shump should be the one off the bench, period. Brewer comes off the bench, while Stat starts.

That's nuts having a player like Amare come off the bench.


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Post#109 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:14 pm by Workforce250

DRoberstonNYY wrote:
Workforce250 wrote:Shump should be the one off the bench, period. Brewer comes off the bench, while Stat starts.

That's nuts having a player like Amare come off the bench.



+1
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Post#110 Re: This game is proof we need Amare to win a
Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:28 pm by DRoberstonNYY

lets be honest, at this point amare isn't good enough to be in a top teams starting lineup. he does nothing well other than dunk
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