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Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:54 pm
by cgmw
Premise 1:
For defensive reasons, you cannot play Novak at the same time as both Carmelo and Amar'e.
Premise 2:
The total number of minutes where either Carmelo or (healthy) Amar'e but not both are on the floor will not exceed 12-15.
Conclusion: If Amar'e returns healthy, Novak will receive fewer than 12-15 minutes per game.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:56 pm
by Rasho Brezec
Tomato, tomahto.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:02 pm
by spree2kawhi
In every game there are like 4-5 plays after a timeout and also stretches where you need Novak on the floor. Even if you use him for 5 mpg only, he still is very valuable. Dude is going nowhere, especially not if you consider that there isn't even a need to be addressed.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:04 pm
by cgmw
basketboule wrote:In every game there are like 4-5 plays after a timeout and also stretches where you need Novak on the floor. Even if you use him for 5 mpg only, he still is very valuable. Dude is going nowhere, especially not if you consider that there isn't even a need to be addressed.
Agree completely. Nevertheless, I still expect his role to continue a steady decline. And the OP's question has to do with theoretical trade value, not actual trades. Theoretically, there is in fact a line where the Knicks would receive enough value in return to move Novak.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:05 pm
by Jeff Van Gully
Rasho Brezec wrote:Artest is a nutjob and we're a sane veteran team. Steve Novak was just signed to a new ccontract and is not going anywhere. Aneare is expendable.
sane? we lost last night because we are a little unstable (see: crazy sheed). we were unraveling at the end of the spurs game before the miracle comeback.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:12 pm
by Pharmcat
close game at end, who ya rolling on the O end?
amare melo novak jr felton (or kidd in there somewhere)
have to keep a man on pretty much all of them, which would allow melo to do his thing
novak is needed, he has a very specialized role on this team
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:17 pm
by JDs_loot
Pharmcat wrote:close game at end, who ya rolling on the O end?
amare melo novak jr felton (or kidd in there somewhere)
have to keep a man on pretty much all of them, which would allow melo to do his thing
novak is needed, he has a very specialized role on this team
No one's saying he should be traded. Try to keep up.
The question is what's his trade value?
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:18 pm
by ORANGEandBLUE
cgmw wrote:[
IMO he plays left bench.
He can't play at the same time as Amar'e because of defensive liability. The offense is moving further and further away from what he's good at (spacing the floor as a spot-up shooter), and will move even further away when Amar'e returns and we stop posting up Carmelo (because Amar'e can't pass out of the post).
IMO it would be very aggressive, but very wise to move Novak now while his value is still high. The longer we play him in a non-fastbreaking isolation-based offense, the further his value will plummet.
Why not just play him when Melo's on the floor and Amare's on the bench?
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:20 pm
by ORANGEandBLUE
cgmw wrote:Premise 1:
For defensive reasons, you cannot play Novak at the same time as both Carmelo and Amar'e.
Premise 2:
The total number of minutes where either Carmelo or (healthy) Amar'e but not both are on the floor will not exceed 12-15.
Conclusion: If Amar'e returns healthy, Novak will receive fewer than 12-15 minutes per game.
Disgaree... it's totally plausible that Amare will play 25-30 minutes for health reasons, leaving 18-23 minutes of no-Amare time for Novak to play with Melo.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:23 pm
by JDs_loot
ORANGEandBLUE wrote:cgmw wrote:[
IMO he plays left bench.
He can't play at the same time as Amar'e because of defensive liability. The offense is moving further and further away from what he's good at (spacing the floor as a spot-up shooter), and will move even further away when Amar'e returns and we stop posting up Carmelo (because Amar'e can't pass out of the post).
IMO it would be very aggressive, but very wise to move Novak now while his value is still high. The longer we play him in a non-fastbreaking isolation-based offense, the further his value will plummet.
Why not just play him when Melo's on the floor and Amare's on the bench?
What about Sheed and Camby?
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:26 pm
by spree2kawhi
cgmw wrote:basketboule wrote:In every game there are like 4-5 plays after a timeout and also stretches where you need Novak on the floor. Even if you use him for 5 mpg only, he still is very valuable. Dude is going nowhere, especially not if you consider that there isn't even a need to be addressed.
Agree completely. Nevertheless, I still expect his role to continue a steady decline. And the OP's question has to do with theoretical trade value, not actual trades. Theoretically, there is in fact a line where the Knicks would receive enough value in return to move Novak.
Fair enough. His minutes being reduced is also a good sign imo.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:31 pm
by Thugger HBC
I can't imagine what Novak's trade value is, but i do know he is needed on this team.
Like I said in another thread, this version of Novak is ok with me.
I wanted him to improve his overall game at the expense of lethal shooting from three that tight defenses take away anyway.
I can' totally live with a 40% three point Novak if he defends good, get a few boards, and at least attempt more than just threes.
He's doing that, imo.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:21 pm
by melo mvp 15
I'll keep Novak, thank you very much. Sure against some teams he can disappear because of match ups, but he's such a valuable part of this team. Whenever he's on the court he's contributing because even if he's not hitting 3s, teams are covering him tight and it opens up the paint.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:27 pm
by CharlesOakley
You want to know his trade value but don't want to trade him? So during the first seven games of the season you are already thinking about roster changes. This is such a ballboy thread its not funny. Novak is important. Some games he will play more because of favorable matchups, some games less because of unfavorable matchups. That is the luxury of have a 13 player deep team.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:30 pm
by kNicksGmen
novak is our only pure shooter. imagine we're in a game down 2 or 3 with like 10-20 seconds left with the ball. he's going to be in there. whether he's taking the shot for the win or simply a decoy he serves a purpose. teams must respect his ability to shoot.
as far as his trade value who knows. at this point i think it's certain his value to our team right now is higher than anything we can get in return for him. especially a draft pick which won't help until the future.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:22 pm
by FrozenInfernoZX
JDs_loot wrote:I'm not saying I want him gone, but when Ama're comes back and Camby get's tossed in to the rotation, I'm wondering if there will be any minutes for Steve. I'm just wondering about his trade value right now. Can we get a good first rounder for him? What can we get for him?
Omg, you are acting like Novak needs to play 20 minutes to be effective. He is a 3 POINT SPECIALIST. We can utilize him every now and then to knock down a couple of threes and he can hit the bench afterwards.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:21 pm
by MSG
We need to draw some plays for Novak. He hasn't shot the ball well for his standards this season. Getting him some good looks might get him out of slump.
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:29 pm
by aggo
come on, we got bigger things to worry about than Steve Novak.
He is waht he is.
Every 6-7 games he will just explode for 20 points in 15 minutes and basically ice the game for us. That's insanely valuable.
That's a weapon every team desperately needs
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:39 pm
by Capn'O
Novak for Jordan Hill
#geterdonedonnie
Re: Steve Novak's trade value?
Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2012 4:02 am
by HarthorneWingo
Can't trade Novak. He's untouchable.