David Lee

sebstar · Post #31 » by **sebstar** » Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:04 pm

Give me a break w/ this David Lee nonsense. Unnecessary.

nykballa2k4 · Post #32 » by **nykballa2k4** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:32 am

I'll take Lee and Jefferson for Amare if we also get $ for having to waive Jefferson.

makeitstop · Post #33 » by **makeitstop** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:47 am

Knick Swisher wrote:
makeitstop wrote:I don't get a lot of these trade scenarios to begin with.

This team has been together for 7 games, and they've won six of them.

What is this fascination with tinkering? Why not give these guys 20 games and see where they are at that point before dealing out guys?

This board assumes that Stat is not going to work out, but you're willing to take a flyer on guys like Lee and Harrington - whose faults we're all familiar with already.

What if we bring them in and they don't work with this team?

Didn't you know? EVERYONE knows Amare won't play defense or rebound based on his extensive play so far this year

Maybe it's because everybody that hates every other player on this team has left, but Amare is apparently the focus of all the hate on this board now. People are dogging the guy 24/7 and he hasn't played at all this season.

I'm happy that the Knicks are off to a great start and all the armchair coaches have been silenced. The only thing that would make this season better for me would be for Stat to come back and make a big contribution to this team. That would force some changes on this board that I would love to see.

DRoberstonNYY · Post #34 » by **DRoberstonNYY** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:56 pm

no, there's about 10 years worth of evidence that amare won't play defense

also, when the team played good defense last year, he was once again a sieve

there is no vendetta against amare

he's just a baaad player. period

R-DAWG · Post #35 » by **R-DAWG** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:52 pm

Why waive Jefferson when his large expiring can be used as a trade chip next year. Maybe people don't love Afflalo/Harrington combo, but that's not really the point.

The question is "would you trade Amare Stoudemire for David Lee AND another piece or 2 that could help the team" I think Afflalo is a very good fit as a SG who can space the floor and play defense. Harrington is a throw in but could help the team as a role player. Sure, were bringing back a few pieces from the rebuilding years BUT we are teaming them with Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler, Ray Felton, Jason Kidd, JR Smith, and SHEEEEEEEEEEDDDDD. Also, they will be playing for Mr. Woodson not Mike No D.

Would ORL do the deal, not sure. You may say Afflalo was the "centerpiece" of the dwight trade, but in reality, it was acquiring picks, a large TPE, and being bad enough to get a top 5 pick. Afflalo was an upgrade over J-Rich and taking him allowed them to dump JRich AND Duhon. NY would likely have to add an asset to the deal (NOT SHUMPERT) but it may be worth it.

DowNY · Post #36 » by **DowNY** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:19 pm

10 yrs of basketball to prove Amar'e won't play defense or at least put effort to buy into the team's concept?
Eh....seems like I need to get my palm read by some of you?
Did y'all guess that Melo would adjust his game to be a complete player before the season started? & did y'all guess JR would be much more mature this season too?

R-DAWG · Post #37 » by **R-DAWG** » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:40 pm

^^ Melo and JR are elite athletes in the prime of their careers. Amare is breaking down physically and losing athleticism/explosiveness. Doesn't mean he can't adapt his game, but he's at a different stage of his career then Melo and JR are.

Amare's defense wont be the issue. He is playing with better defensive guards, and 2 front court players that can defend, you can hide him. He needs to rebound the ball better than he has in the past and show he can score in ways that don't rely on athleticism. Sure, you will run a few pick and rolls for him, but for this to work he needs to be consistent with his jump shot and then go into the post and get some easy hoops and get to the foul line.

Amare is what he is when healthy, a high volume and efficient scorer. I'm not concerned about his defense, or him fitting in for that matter. I am concerned about his health.

aggo · Post #38 » by **aggo** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:36 am

David Lee would be a perfect fit for this team. You people are insane.

His skillset is perfect next to Melo and our shooters.

LINIZALLSTAR · Post #39 » by **LINIZALLSTAR** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:37 am

17/19 today, crazy

BernardKing · Post #40 » by **BernardKing** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:50 am

GONYK wrote:Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding.

Defensive rebounding is part of overall team defense. A defensive stop is typically completed with a defensive rebound.

Post #41 » by **GONYK** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:40 am

BernardKing wrote:
GONYK wrote:Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding.

Defensive rebounding is part of overall team defense. A defensive stop is typically completed with a defensive rebound.

Doesn't make those who are good at it good defenders

I ask this to anyone: Are Kevin Love, David Lee, Zach Randolph great defenders? Nope.

Is Tyson Chandler a bad defender because he doesn't average as many rebounds as those guys?

Just because you can rebound the miss doesn't mean you can make your opponent miss.

BernardKing · Post #42 » by **BernardKing** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:08 am

GONYK wrote:
BernardKing wrote:
GONYK wrote:Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding.

Defensive rebounding is part of overall team defense. A defensive stop is typically completed with a defensive rebound.

Doesn't make those who are good at it good defenders

I ask this to anyone: Are Kevin Love, David Lee, Zach Randolph great defenders? Nope.

Is Tyson Chandler a bad defender because he doesn't average as many rebounds as those guys?

Just because you can rebound the miss doesn't mean you can make your opponent miss.

The point you're trying to convey is obvious, but what you originally said was a blanket statement: "Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding." That's incorrect. The message that coaches drill into players is the opposite of that. Coaches routinely preach that the defensive possession doesn't end just because the shot goes up.

Post #43 » by **GONYK** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:50 pm

BernardKing wrote:
The point you're trying to convey is obvious, but what you originally said was a blanket statement: "Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding." That's incorrect. The message that coaches drill into players is the opposite of that. Coaches routinely preach that the defensive possession doesn't end just because the shot goes up.

Obviously the rebound caps a defensive possession, but that, in and of itself, doesn't make it defense. It is still rebounding.

It is the proverbial cherry on top of the ice cream that is defense.

We aren't a bad defensive team because we have rebounding issues.

We are a great defensive team who needs to improve our rebounding. It is it's own aspect that is related to defense, but ultimately tangential from it.

NewEra · Post #44 » by **NewEra** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:08 pm

Huge fan of Amare, but If you can trade him you do it. He's injury prone. Yes, I'd do it for Lee.

The second part of that deal is hilarious.

NewEra · Post #45 » by **NewEra** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:13 pm

Neither Lee or Amare plays defense. Both can give you 20/10 on any given night. Lee though is more servicable where as Amare's knees aren't something I'm confident about. 742 would be the happiest mod ever, and I'm sure Novak wouldn't mind having another white guy around.

DLTGWH · Post #46 » by **DLTGWH** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:28 pm

DavidLeeTheGreatWhiteHope

:clap:

BernardKing · Post #47 » by **BernardKing** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:44 pm

GONYK wrote:Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding.

I just got the text response back from my brother in law's brother (a member of the New Jersey Basketball Coaches Hall of Fame).

My text to him: "What would you say to someone who says the following: Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding."

His response: "if you're giving up second opportunities because you're out of position after altering the shot attempt, then the team defensive trip is unsuccessful, so I'd say that statement is wrong. Were they discussing offensive rebounding?"

LOL

Post #48 » by **GONYK** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:48 pm

BernardKing wrote:
GONYK wrote:Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding.

I just got the text response back from my brother in law's brother (a member of the New Jersey Basketball Coaches Hall of Fame).

My text to him: "What would you say to someone who says the following: Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding."

His response: "if you're giving up second opportunities because you're out of position after altering the shot attempt, then the team defensive trip is unsuccessful, so I'd say that statement is wrong. Were they discussing offensive rebounding?"

LOL

You're missing the point and I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

David Lee isn't a better defender than Amare because he is a better rebounder. The same way Carmelo isn't a better defender than Lebron because he averages more rebounds

Rebounding, in relation to evaluating an individual player, is not defense. It is simply rebounding.

If you think otherwise, then you are wrong.

On top of that, teams can be good rebounding teams without being good defensive teams.

Milwaukee has the best defensive rebound rate in the league, and they are not even in the top 10 in the league in defensive efficiency.

Hell, Denver leads the league in rebounds, and they aren't even a top 20 defensive team in the league.

By comparison, the Knicks have the 15th defensive rebound rate in the league, and we're a top 5 defense.

So in essence, rebounding is related to team defense simply because it caps the defensive possession. It, in and of itself, is not defense.

BernardKing · Post #49 » by **BernardKing** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:34 pm

GONYK wrote:
BernardKing wrote:
GONYK wrote:Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding.

I just got the text response back from my brother in law's brother (a member of the New Jersey Basketball Coaches Hall of Fame).

My text to him: "What would you say to someone who says the following: Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding."

His response: "if you're giving up second opportunities because you're out of position after altering the shot attempt, then the team defensive trip is unsuccessful, so I'd say that statement is wrong. Were they discussing offensive rebounding?"

LOL

You're missing the point and I'm not sure what you are trying to prove.

David Lee isn't a better defender than Amare because he is a better rebounder. The same way Carmelo isn't a better defender than Lebron because he averages more rebounds

Rebounding, in relation to evaluating an individual player, is not defense. It is simply rebounding.

If you think otherwise, then you are wrong.

I'm not trying to prove anything, but sorry that it seems I've bothered you in some way. I only responded to your original post which stated these words exactly: "Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding."

I'm glad that you've at least amended that statement in a later post by saying "Rebounding, in relation to evaluating an individual player, is not defense. It is simply rebounding." Is that what you meant to say in your original post?

Post #50 » by **GONYK** » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:38 pm

BernardKing wrote:
I'm not trying to prove anything, but sorry that it seems I've bothered you in some way. I only responded to your original post which stated these words exactly: "Rebounding isn't defense. It is rebounding."

I'm glad that you've at least amended that statement in a later post by saying "Rebounding, in relation to evaluating an individual player, is not defense. It is simply rebounding." Is that what you meant to say in your original post?

It's what I've meant all along. Rebounding numbers don't indicate any sort of defensive ability whether you are talking about a player, or a team.

I'm not bothered by your posts, but you initially stated that my point was obvious, but then continued to talk around it. So I was genuinely wondering what you were trying to prove.