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500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread

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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#141 » by earthmansurfer » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:05 pm

j4remi wrote:Player notes:

Ronnie Brewer - My personal MVP of the game. The guys played his typical rabid D which include sometimes switching with Melo off screens and covering West early on. He also hit a mid range jumper, cut to the basket consistently and finished whenever he got the ball in a position to do so. The reason I put his performance over the big guns though is that he fought on the boards to the tune of 3 offensive grabs and shot efficiently. The third quarter run that basically iced the game was sparked by Brewer and Sheed more than any of the starters.

Melo - Poor FG percentage doesn't quite tell the whole story. Melo started the game hitting jumpers with ease but was absolutely dedicated to attacking the basket. He drove hard into Hibbert and West consistently and couldn't get the foul calls (partially because the refs don't give him those but I give Hibbert a ton of credit as a shot blocker/changer as well here). The zero in his assists column comes in light of him kicking the ball out to spark swing passes along the perimeter...he did pass. The zero in the TO columns speaks to him playing a VERY smart game. His rebounds on the defensive end were good and he had some nice grabs on the offensive side although tbh, a couple of those came as a result of following his own shot. I think one thing I'm starting to note about the Melo drives is he doesn't use a hop step too often. He's much more liable to have a one-two step gather which gives him momentum going forward instead of a hop into a two feet planted gather which would allow him to explode UP. Can't complain when the guy is getting to the rim but he'll lose efficiency points if he continues to fail on his first attempt.

Ray Felton - If his tear drop was falling, he would have busted this game open before half time. He was able to get into the lane but the Pacers have very good interior shot blocking and they challenged him every time. He also couldn't get his shot to fall. In the third quarter he was already sitting on 15 attempts and I was a little perturbed by it since he wasn't shooting efficiently...but he changed gears and just passed and did it well from then out. He had a legit 8 assists and played some intense D on his way to a solid performance even while his scoring numbers came back to earth.

Sheed - What a great performance in short minutes. He played 15 minutes but grabbed 7 boards and scored 9 points. He rolled three separate ways off picks (to the elbow once, the the three point line twice and to the hoop the rest of the way) which was great for throwing off his defender. He had an excellent block on a play where it looked like he got beat and he played great defense overall. Sheed has been a HUGE surprise to me, I was hoping for 10 minutes of not hurting us on D ball...instead he's been our second best guy off the bench.

JR - It's easy to look at a few of his weaker positions and assume he had an out of control game. There was one play in particular where he dribbled for TWENTY SECONDS and couldn't get anywhere. A couple of other times he slashed, got stopped and did that tough turn around fading jumper for bricks. That's a bit unfair though. He was 5 for 10 because he took plenty of smart shots as well. He had a steal and block but also got his hands on the ball multiple times defensively where it wound up out of bounds or being kicked back out. He had 7 boards and 2 assists to boot. He played hard, not always smart but not bad at all. He had a pretty good game.

Tyson - Rotated a LOT better in this one than he has in the past couple of games. Defensively he was everywhere, though he did have a couple of lapses on rebound positioning. He couldn't get much going on the pick and roll but like I keep saying, the Pacers have good interior defenders. This was his best game since the Mavs game for sure imo. 9 rebounds would have been more if not for some tough foul calls cutting his minutes in the first half. 2 steals and a block are results of him getting after it on D...good game.

Prigs - He seemed extremely hesitant to shoot and couldn't get anything to fall. That said, he picked up four assists because he made smart plays with the ball whenever the defense did commit to him. The obvious highlight for him is that pick and roll underhand bounce pass to Sheed that you might have missed if you weren't expecting a pass. Sheed finished on a one handed dunk in case you did miss it. When he gets comfortable with taking jumpers, he'll become a force off the bench. Not a great game but not bad either imo. I could see arguments going both ways.

Novak - I keep remarking that he sped up his release this season but the quicker release might also be a result of rushing some J's. The defensive gameplan against him has been to kill his space and as a result he's getting less opportunities which leads to less rhythm and a need to make rapid decisions. I think that's hurting his shooting even when he does get space...He's just not comfortable with the new attention from defenders yet. I think it will come around. Here's something that I like about his play this season though, he has improved his defensive rotations exponentially since the preseason. He's actually got pretty good hands with his on ball D and he's no longer a complete liability. He also threw an entry pass to Melo in the post (someone in a previous game thread mentioned that I should look for this aspect of his game) and that's no minor feat for a Forward. If Novak can get Melo the ball in the post once in a while, it takes a bit of the load off Felton and Kidd which is always nice. Overall, not his best game...Shot poorly and forced some...but he wasn't as bad as some people might make it out to be.

Kidd - Wasn't himself after getting hit in the head. He didn't handle the ball often and even had a poor decision on a pass that ended up a TO. Defensively he was all there though, without having any qualms I will say that J Kidd is the most important cog to making the small ball line-up work. How so? He is the designated double teamer on post ups and he does it really well. He manages to get to the double team effectively and release fast enough to recover either to his man or to his rotation target. It's beyond impressive. None of his numbers will leap out at you, but he played well and was key in keeping David West from running amok on Melo.

Camby - How refreshing to have him come in there and go to work. He got after the boards, challenged shots (including a big time block) and DOVE ON THE FLOOR FOR THE BALL! He doesn't at all look like a guy who isn't ready. He should continue to get at least 10-15 mpg from here on out despite pedestrian numbers that hide his impact on the floor.

Moment of the game - Melo checking Hibbert after a post whistle bump. Just showed the Knicks new identity which is so much tougher than we've seen in a decade that it's GREAT.

Scrub of the Game - Obviously Hibbert...He forced up a ton of garbage and for a change in the Knicks luck...the ball didn't go in more often than not. He probably should have been in foul trouble with the amount of shots he challenged in the hole and his battles on the boards. His TO's were a beautiful thing for us though, killing any rhythm his boys could possibly get into when you combine them with his awkward, forced post ups.

Game notes:

Seemingly for the first time today, we saw Melo at the 3 for a while. This came first with a Tyson Chandler and Sheed front court...then with a Sheed and Camby front court. It didn't last all that long but I was watching the size and length on the court during those stints and it was REALLY IMPRESSIVE. With JR Smith as a pretty big SG and average sized PG's...the team was just big and intimidating. I want to see this over powering line-up more often. Sheed was able to post up, Camby was able to fight for boards and the G's had pick and roll options everywhere. It was refreshing. Melo also had the opportunity to post up guys his own size and it allowed him to get inside the painted area effectively. I'm not saying to go away from a starting unit that worked for us all season, but I think Woody would do well to keep defenses honest. West started the game shoving Melo on the very first time down court (no call) and posting Melo consistently. When we go big, the PF's can't target him like that.

This was the first truly poor shooting game...as in, the team didn't play show lapses in mind set or execution but the looks they usually make weren't falling. It didn't matter though...because this defense absolutely OWNED the game. The Pacers weren't just missing looks like we were, they had no rhythm because we were all over them with pressure. They had to shoot late in the clock consistently and they could attack the basket with any consistency because the rotations were just BEAUTIFUL. This was an absolutely brilliant defensive effort to add to the set of defensive gems we started off the season with. It becomes a statement game to anyone who pinned their continual Knick negativity to "what will happen when the three's don't fall?" The Knicks shot 36% from the Field and 28% from three...it was ugly. They still absolutely controlled the game. Here's how, they took 19 more FGA's than their opponents thanks in large part to 9 steals and 19 forced TO's. They still had 19 assists on their 33 makes which tells you it wasn't a question of execution or team play...it was just an off shooting night and that wasn't even close to enough to stop this team.

GREAT GAME!



Baaaaaammmmm! Thanks for taking the time, nice...
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#142 » by 21shumpshumpst » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:25 pm

Good defensive win.

Positives
Melo is playing like a beast. Attacking the basket at every opportunity he has. Any misses and he is not giving up and doing 2nd and 3rd efforts to get the ball back for a putback/offensive rebound.

Brewer - Just a smart bball player. His ability to hit the jumper this year is HUGE. He has been cutting well which is something that you need in this type of offense.

Felton - He can get to the paint at will at this point. The numbers don't tell the story of how well he is playing.

I will do the rest of the guys but I am exhausted from a late night of degeneracy.

Next up the Hornets and the Brow. Go Knicks.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#143 » by Priggy Smalls » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:29 pm

some good stuff here http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-88-pacers-76/

Corollary to #1: just because Tony Parker and Mike Conley can get into the lane at will doesn’t mean your perimeter defense isn’t good. Paul George, George Hill, and Lance Stephenson were a combined 4/16 on two-point attempts in this game; Hill attempted only one shot in the paint. The early scouting report on the Knicks defense is that their perimeter switching and interior ball denial is good and that the best way to beat them is with a super-quick dribble penetrator and/or a strong, skilled post presence that can receive the ball high and muscle his way toward the basket. To that end, the Spurs/Grizzlies back-to-back might have been the single most difficult test their defense will face all year. And they went 1-1.


The final point is the most important. The Knicks’ starting lineup (Raymond Felton, Jason Kidd, Ronnie Brewer, Carmelo Anthony, Tyson Chandler) was on the court together for 15 minutes today (tip-off until 8:48 of the first quarter; 5:39 of the second quarter until halftime; start of the third quarter until 5:58 of the third quarter). In those 15 minutes, each team had 27 possessions on which the Knicks scored 40 points (1.48 per possession) and the Pacers scored 24 (0.89 per possession). This is astonishingly good but basically an exaggeration of what they’ve done all year so far (1.18 per possession, 0.90 allowed per possession coming into today). That’s not simply great, it’s cartoonish. It’s happened against champions and also-rans, contenders and minnows. It’s happened against big teams and small. It’s happened at home and on the road.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#144 » by Rasho Brezec » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:29 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:I'm just trying to point out that we don't need Amare. Really, what added value does he bring to this team? Scoring? We're 7-1.


the only thing amare brings (if healthy and explosive) is his ability to finish around the rim. I think he and prigs will work great in the second unit. Prigs really doesn't play with a P&R big that is an established finisher around the rim.

Also we seem a bit out of sync and reliant on Felton and JR jumpers if Melo gets into foul trouble. If Melo gets in foul trouble we still would have a go to guy with Amare.

I think Amare minutes should be limited 20-25 off the bench until he proves he can be reliable defensively.

Good point about Prigioni. I don't think Amare will ever be anything other than a defensive liability and 20 minutes off the bench is the most I'd let him play. Part of our strength is our bench being better than opponent's bench both offensively and defensively. If Amare starts messing that up, he better do it before the trade deadline.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#145 » by Striders » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:36 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:I'm just trying to point out that we don't need Amare. Really, what added value does he bring to this team? Scoring? We're 7-1.


He can rebound (which is our biggest issue) and block at the rim. That's valuable. I'd rather we get Sheed as much rest as possible as well.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#146 » by Rasho Brezec » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:43 pm

Meh. Kurt and Camby are both better rebounders. Sheed is on par with him but plays defense. All three are better shotblockers, too.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#147 » by j4remi » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:47 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:Meh. Kurt and Camby are both better rebounders. Sheed is on par with him but plays defense. All three are better shotblockers, too.


Only Camby averages more blocks per game for his career. Sheed and Amare are neck and neck in career averages but you have to think Amare can rotate more quickly to get blocks (he averaged almost 2 per his first year with us) and Kurt Thomas is by no means a good shot blocker. Amare for all his defensive flaws, has always been pretty good at shot blocking and timing.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#148 » by Striders » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:49 pm

j4remi wrote:Only Camby averages more blocks per game for his career. Sheed and Amare are neck and neck in career averages but you have to think Amare can rotate more quickly to get blocks (he averaged almost 2 per his first year with us) and Kurt Thomas is by no means a good shot blocker. Amare for all his defensive flaws, has always been pretty good at shot blocking and timing.


Yep. Amar'e will probably never become even an average defender, but he can still be of use around the rim. He's another big man with good timing and still has some athleticism. That should be enough for him to contribute for team boards, and some weak side shot blocking.

Helps especially since Chandler doesn't really go for blocks.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#149 » by MaseInYourFace » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:52 pm

Kinda a boring game. I missed it earlier. Watching it now off DVR. Knicks were pretty much in control whole way. Key was that we locked up Hibbert, once that happened Indiana was screwed. I like what I saw from Camby. He gives us a nice presence on boards and on defense, and I like that we can play him with Sheed to go really big. Woodson is easing him in. Building him up. Whoever is bitc***g about Camby not playing against Memphis needs to calm that down and trust Woodson. Look at big picture!!
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#150 » by SonOfMars » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:52 pm

Striders wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:I'm just trying to point out that we don't need Amare. Really, what added value does he bring to this team? Scoring? We're 7-1.


He can rebound (which is our biggest issue) and block at the rim. That's valuable. I'd rather we get Sheed as much rest as possible as well.


In comparison to Sheed and Camby? :-?
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#151 » by MaseInYourFace » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:54 pm

I wonder what's up with Novakaine? Is his timing off or something. His missing a lot of shots that are automatic for him.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#152 » by j4remi » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:01 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:I wonder what's up with Novakaine? Is his timing off or something. His missing a lot of shots that are automatic for him.


I just read a blogger talking about Novak and his regression...He mentioned that Novak's 3 point percentage on the season is only like 1.5% shy of Reggie Miller's career average. Maybe we're all just spoiled because of how dominant he was from three last year, it kinda makes sense that he would fall back to Earth...though it's true that he's missing shots I'd expect him to make.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#153 » by Rasho Brezec » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:03 pm

j4remi wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:Meh. Kurt and Camby are both better rebounders. Sheed is on par with him but plays defense. All three are better shotblockers, too.


Only Camby averages more blocks per game for his career. Sheed and Amare are neck and neck in career averages but you have to think Amare can rotate more quickly to get blocks (he averaged almost 2 per his first year with us) and Kurt Thomas is by no means a good shot blocker. Amare for all his defensive flaws, has always been pretty good at shot blocking and timing.


Amare career BLK%: 2.9
Sheed career BLK%: 3.0
Camby career BLK%: 6.1
Kurt career BLK%: 2.3

Amare 11/12 BLK%: 2.3
Sheed 09/10 BLK%: 3.1 (current 6.2)
Camby 11/12 BLK%: 4.7
Kurt 11/12 BLK%: 3.0

Keep in mind those are old farts with little athleticism. Amare is someone who has relied on athleticism his whole career and is coming off a knee injury.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#154 » by MaseInYourFace » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:03 pm

I think he's (Novak) in a slump for whatever reason.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#155 » by boomann21 » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:04 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:I think he's (Novak) in a slump for whatever reason.


What's great about it is that his slump is coming while everyone else is hot. Once he heats up the NBA will not be ready for these Knicks. And this place is really dead on Sunday's.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#156 » by j4remi » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:14 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:
j4remi wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:Meh. Kurt and Camby are both better rebounders. Sheed is on par with him but plays defense. All three are better shotblockers, too.


Only Camby averages more blocks per game for his career. Sheed and Amare are neck and neck in career averages but you have to think Amare can rotate more quickly to get blocks (he averaged almost 2 per his first year with us) and Kurt Thomas is by no means a good shot blocker. Amare for all his defensive flaws, has always been pretty good at shot blocking and timing.


Amare career BLK%: 2.9
Sheed career BLK%: 3.0
Camby career BLK%: 6.1
Kurt career BLK%: 2.3

Amare 11/12 BLK%: 2.3
Sheed 09/10 BLK%: 3.1 (current 6.2)
Camby 11/12 BLK%: 4.7
Kurt 11/12 BLK%: 3.0

Keep in mind those are old farts with little athleticism. Amare is someone who has relied on athleticism his whole career and is coming off a knee injury.


Those stats pretty much line-up with what I said. Sheed and Amare is a push in blocking and Kurt isn't as good (going by career over the small sample sizes we have now). Amare's 11/12 stats are all gonna be ugly because he just had an awful season with a bad back, weight issue, inability to workout in the off season, and a major death on his mind..By career though, Amare is just as good as Sheed and better than Thomas. Also, it remains to be seen whether or not the knee injury will hamper him to the extent of being less mobile than KT or Sheed...those are pretty slow laterally.
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#157 » by j4remi » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:16 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:I think he's (Novak) in a slump for whatever reason.


He's rushing some of his looks for sure...I think that's part of the problem and it also suggests more of a mental thing. I think he'll be fine though (I mentioned it in my breakdown of his game, but I think he just needs to adapt to the new pressure he's facing this season).
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#158 » by KnicksManiac » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:20 pm

I was at the Garden for today's game. I'm obviously thrilled with the win and with the great defensive effort, but I cannot remember the last time the Garden crowd was so dead. It was completely silent 95 percent of the time. I was in the first row of the upper level today, and I feel like I could have screamed something to the players on the court and they easily would have heard me.

Did it seem very quiet on TV?
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#159 » by MaseInYourFace » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:23 pm

KnicksManiac wrote:I was at the Garden for today's game. I'm obviously thrilled with the win and with the great defensive effort, but I cannot remember the last time the Garden crowd was so dead. It was completely silent 95 percent of the time. I was in the first row of the upper level today, and I feel like I could have screamed something to the players on the court and they easily would have heard me.

Did it seem very quiet on TV?


Yeah the crowd was quiet. But honestly the game was kinda boring and Knicks were pretty much in control whole way. Plus early sunday games tend to be slower/quieter...
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Re: 500 @ Mecca Post Game Thread 

Post#160 » by god shammgod » Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:30 pm

we're honestly just going to have to hope that amare falls in line with what's going on and gives all out effort on d and the glass. we've seen him do that at times. like when he came back from punching the fire extinguisher. if not i don't think woody is gonna play him much anyway.

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