OT: 27 Killed, 18 elementary school students shot dead CON

[Moose]

Let's face it. When the Constitution was written, our forefathers had weapons where it took five minutes to load with rifle with pellets and gun powder before they could fire a shot. And the politics of the day was much different as we had just fought the Revolutionary War and was just starting our country. The same justifications are not true today.

Exactly. Like I said earlier... sweep the country.. bring back the troops to do it and employ the unemployed also. Any automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons that are found are destroyed... if someone is deemed "sane" enough or have no criminal record they can own 1 six-shot revolver or in cases where they depend on hunting for food or to protect themselves from wildlife they can own 1 rifle or 1 non-automatic shotgun.. and of course a compound Bow... that's it. You want to protect yourself... and you're proved responsible enough you can own a revolver. This doesn't happen if the kid only has a revolver. There's your second amendment.. enjoy it.

Just get the glocks, the extended magazines, the Ar15's and all the other semi-automatic weapons off of the street NOW. Start now because a project of this magnitude will take years.

The days where any dumb ass can get an assault rifle, some body armor and an extended clip needs to stop.

You people are insane. You want the military to do a full sweep of people's homes for guns?

This is so sad. Wars have been fought because of militias entering the homes of citizens, and now people are asking for it.

Some of this stuff is hard to read.

[cgmw]

Sad to me that this becomes the same heated tired argument about gun control that we've all heard a thousand times before.

Take politics out (if you can). When there's a problem -- and clearly there's a problem -- the correct methodology to solving it is to ask yourself what's causing the problem, and how do I stop it (the cause/s)?

Access to guns isn't causing mass murder. It's enabling it. But for access to guns, those children would not be dead (if you want to wrangle semantics you can add the word "by GSW" to the end). Likewise lackadaisical or non-existent law enforcement did not cause the problem. It simply failed to prevent it. Diverting resources to law enforcement specifically targeting these types of killings might help stop a psycho from killing, but it won't stop the psychopath from becoming a psychopath to begin with.

To me, the only real answer is for non-partison experts in law enforcement, psychology, and criminal justice to figure out what the F is going on, and then for society (through politicians) to take real steps toward preventing it. Since this is a slow, imperfect process fraught with potential corruption, incompetence, and political self-dealing, I have little faith it'll happen.

Instead what I expect is a politically driven "solution" which addresses the symptoms but ignores the disease. Namely, I expect the Right to concede ground on gun control while the Left gets tougher on penalties for the criminally insane. IMO it's an idiotic approach driven by panic, mass stupidity, and desperate opportunistic politicians who are too busy staying elected to truly care.

Should there be tighter gun control? Duh. Of course. It's idiotic, Draconian, and ass-backwards that we don't. But that's not going to solve the problem.

[Linguistik]

Ok I'm not anti or pro-gun control, but let's just say this.

Let's say the shooter is a black guy, and he shoots up an all-black or all-Mexican school. An inner-city Black-Mexican school.

He goes out and kills a bunch of little Omars, Marlo Stanfields, and Stringer Bells.....now I wonder what the media would say. Yeah, not a peep.

But if it's White people getting killed left and right....then it's utter shock and disbelief, let's talk about gun control.

[CrazyKnicks]

Let's face it. When the Constitution was written, our forefathers had weapons where it took five minutes to load with rifle with pellets and gun powder before they could fire a shot. And the politics of the day was much different as we had just fought the Revolutionary War and was just starting our country. The same justifications are not true today.

Exactly. Like I said earlier... sweep the country.. bring back the troops to do it and employ the unemployed also. Any automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons that are found are destroyed... if someone is deemed "sane" enough or have no criminal record they can own 1 six-shot revolver or in cases where they depend on hunting for food or to protect themselves from wildlife they can own 1 rifle or 1 non-automatic shotgun.. and of course a compound Bow... that's it. You want to protect yourself... and you're proved responsible enough you can own a revolver. This doesn't happen if the kid only has a revolver. There's your second amendment.. enjoy it.

Just get the glocks, the extended magazines, the Ar15's and all the other semi-automatic weapons off of the street NOW. Start now because a project of this magnitude will take years.

The days where any dumb ass can get an assault rifle, some body armor and an extended clip needs to stop.

[Moose]

The idea we can get rid of guns is also a delusion.


Remember learning about the prohibition of alcohol?

Do you not realize most of these guns are already obtained illegally? Organized crime, gangs, nut jobs...they all will still exist...banning guns will only make criminals stronger.

Look at the war on drugs. It won't end anything. It will only hurt regular citizens.

[Little Italia]

Let's face it. When the Constitution was written, our forefathers had weapons where it took five minutes to load with rifle with pellets and gun powder before they could fire a shot. And the politics of the day was much different as we had just fought the Revolutionary War and was just starting our country. The same justifications are not true today.

Exactly. Like I said earlier... sweep the country.. bring back the troops to do it and employ the unemployed also. Any automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons that are found are destroyed... if someone is deemed "sane" enough or have no criminal record they can own 1 six-shot revolver or in cases where they depend on hunting for food or to protect themselves from wildlife they can own 1 rifle or 1 non-automatic shotgun.. and of course a compound Bow... that's it. You want to protect yourself... and you're proved responsible enough you can own a revolver. This doesn't happen if the kid only has a revolver. There's your second amendment.. enjoy it.

Just get the glocks, the extended magazines, the Ar15's and all the other semi-automatic weapons off of the street NOW. Start now because a project of this magnitude will take years.

The days where any dumb ass can get an assault rifle, some body armor and an extended clip needs to stop.

I'm all for that, but will it really solve the problem? I don't think so. We've got other very violent countries down south that would love the idea of the US banning guns to everyone, the black market would make them even more powerful.

[ibraheim718]

Its very easy to marginalize this, and say better gun control would have prevented this. I disagree. To me this is a sickness in our culture. We live in a world of social media, 24 hour news, and nobodys like this kid get these twisted fantasy's where they become relevant. We, the public at large, make that happen. We immortalize them, and indirectly inspire others.

I dont know how to stop it, but guns are not the issue. It is however a very easy target, something the victims, politians, the media, can pick at, and say this is who you should blame. Its not that these people performed these acts cause guns just happened to be convenient to them. They would have found a way.

Why can't both guns and the sickness in our culture be a fault? Why does it have to be one or the other? Lets fix both

Mental health care needs to be accessible and the cost needs to be low.

The other issue is people need to start caring about one another... and they need to start being vigilant. We should be encouraged to start protecting each other... for sticking up for the less fortunate or those in danger. If you see someone being mistreated.. stands need to be taken. We can't have this mentality that ALL we do is look out for our own lives.

I've got nothing but the utmost respect (the highest respect) for people who sacrifice their own lives to save others... or for people who react and care enough to do something that doesn't benefit themselves but others.

I've often thought about what would happen if I was in a sticky situation where someones life is in danger.. and my mind was made up a long time ago.. I'm doing everything I can even to help that person even if my life is in jeopardy. I've dove into situations where someone was getting beat to death.. in south philly to be exact.. a kid was getting beat on the head with a shovel... me and my lady dove in and broke the fight up.. luckily the victim survived but suffered some brain damage... even the damn cops just looked on and snickered that the kid deserved it.

[Bran Fast Hands]

The idea we can get rid of guns is also a delusion.


Remember learning about the prohibition of alcohol?

Do you not realize most of these guns are already obtained illegally? Organized crime, gangs, nut jobs...they all will still exist...banning guns will only make criminals stronger.

Look at the war on drugs. It won't end anything. It will only hurt regular citizens.

[gethigh]

You can say that about anything wingo. What is the argument for abortion? Or dangerous hate speech?...abortion is a horrible thing, but if I had a vote, I'd still vote pro choice because you have to weigh all the factors and take in all the angles.

[Moose]

The idea we can get rid of guns is also a delusion.


Remember learning about the prohibition of alcohol?

Do you not realize most of these guns are already obtained illegally? Organized crime, gangs, nut jobs...they all will still exist...banning guns will only make criminals stronger.

Look at the war on drugs. It won't end anything. It will only hurt regular citizens.

Way to contribute...and if you are in new Zealand ...perhaps you aren't aware of the things I have mentioned.

[ibraheim718]

The idea we can get rid of guns is also a delusion.


Remember learning about the prohibition of alcohol?

Do you not realize most of these guns are already obtained illegally? Organized crime, gangs, nut jobs...they all will still exist...banning guns will only make criminals stronger.

Look at the war on drugs. It won't end anything. It will only hurt regular citizens.

I'll tell you the truth.. it's true it would be an almost impossible task.. I'm not going to lie.

But it would be a good symbolic statement to start with... but you would do other things at the same time.

The truth is in reality there probably isn't anything that is going to stop these things... they're just going to keep happening... each one will pathetically out do the rest. But make no mistake about why these things keep happening and that's because it's been decades where America has gotten rich and fat off of death and destruction. The amount of money that is made off of war and violence in the this country is despicable. And society as a whole, collectively will rot until it's extinction because whether you like it or not we've all had a hand in this shyt.

And I don't want to hear about what happens in other countries.. I live here in the states.. I can only speak about what happens here on our dirt.

[ibraheim718]

Let's face it. When the Constitution was written, our forefathers had weapons where it took five minutes to load with rifle with pellets and gun powder before they could fire a shot. And the politics of the day was much different as we had just fought the Revolutionary War and was just starting our country. The same justifications are not true today.

Exactly. Like I said earlier... sweep the country.. bring back the troops to do it and employ the unemployed also. Any automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons that are found are destroyed... if someone is deemed "sane" enough or have no criminal record they can own 1 six-shot revolver or in cases where they depend on hunting for food or to protect themselves from wildlife they can own 1 rifle or 1 non-automatic shotgun.. and of course a compound Bow... that's it. You want to protect yourself... and you're proved responsible enough you can own a revolver. This doesn't happen if the kid only has a revolver. There's your second amendment.. enjoy it.

Just get the glocks, the extended magazines, the Ar15's and all the other semi-automatic weapons off of the street NOW. Start now because a project of this magnitude will take years.

The days where any dumb ass can get an assault rifle, some body armor and an extended clip needs to stop.

You people are insane. You want the military to do a full sweep of people's homes for guns?

This is so sad. Wars have been fought because of militias entering the homes of citizens, and now people are asking for it.

Some of this stuff is hard to read.

What's so hard to read... we need to take the automatic and semi automatic weapons off the street FOR GOOD and they can replaced with weapons that are much less dangerous.

They can still have "their guns" just not guns that are designed to kill mass amounts of people. What's so hard to understand?

[Bran Fast Hands]

The idea we can get rid of guns is also a delusion.


Remember learning about the prohibition of alcohol?

Do you not realize most of these guns are already obtained illegally? Organized crime, gangs, nut jobs...they all will still exist...banning guns will only make criminals stronger.

Look at the war on drugs. It won't end anything. It will only hurt regular citizens.

Way to contribute...and if you are in new Zealand ...perhaps you aren't aware of the things I have mentioned.

Yeah true we haven't got any history on the prohibition of alcohol or knowledge that guns can be obtained illegally.

[ibraheim718]

Ok I'm not anti or pro-gun control, but let's just say this.

Let's say the shooter is a black guy, and he shoots up an all-black or all-Mexican school. An inner-city Black-Mexican school.

He goes out and kills a bunch of little Omars, Marlo Stanfields, and Stringer Bells.....now I wonder what the media would say. Yeah, not a peep.

But if it's White people getting killed left and right....then it's utter shock and disbelief, let's talk about gun control.

Come on.. Obama himself even mentioned kids getting killed on the streets of Chicago and the rampant gun violence that has plagued Chicago has been one of the major antagonists that sparks gun control debates.

[gethigh]

Yeah true we haven't got any history on the prohibition of alcohol or knowledge that guns can be obtained illegally.

Do you guys have electricity in New Zealand?!

[Bran Fast Hands]

Yeah true we haven't got any history on the prohibition of alcohol or knowledge that guns can be obtained illegally.

Do you guys have electricity in New Zealand?!

Got it a couple years back now, this whole internet thing is very new though.

[Moose]

Exactly. Like I said earlier... sweep the country.. bring back the troops to do it and employ the unemployed also. Any automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons that are found are destroyed... if someone is deemed "sane" enough or have no criminal record they can own 1 six-shot revolver or in cases where they depend on hunting for food or to protect themselves from wildlife they can own 1 rifle or 1 non-automatic shotgun.. and of course a compound Bow... that's it. You want to protect yourself... and you're proved responsible enough you can own a revolver. This doesn't happen if the kid only has a revolver. There's your second amendment.. enjoy it.

Just get the glocks, the extended magazines, the Ar15's and all the other semi-automatic weapons off of the street NOW. Start now because a project of this magnitude will take years.

The days where any dumb ass can get an assault rifle, some body armor and an extended clip needs to stop.

You people are insane. You want the military to do a full sweep of people's homes for guns?

This is so sad. Wars have been fought because of militias entering the homes of citizens, and now people are asking for it.

Some of this stuff is hard to read.

What's so hard to read... we need to take the automatic and semi automatic weapons off the street FOR GOOD and they can replaced with weapons that are much less dangerous.

They can still have "their guns" just not guns that are designed to kill mass amounts of people. What's so hard to understand?

Semi-automatics are legal.. the only way to get rid of them is to go into people's homes and destroy them...and not sure how you destroy guns out on the street...do you go around asking gangs to give up their arms?...same with other criminals...it is impossible....banning the second amendmet will only end up hurting normal regular citizens.

[Lercher]

Banning guns won't work, but what could possibly work is obligatory periodic mental health tests for everyone already owning or willing to purchase a firearm. They do it for example in Poland and they're planning to do it in the Netherlands after the Alphen shooting.

[BOOMbip]

You know... after seeing the willful ignorance and deception of some in this thread I had this post loaded up with embedded you tube videos of news reports about women, children, home owners, business owners defending their families, children, brothers, sisters, wives, property at home, businesses, on the street or coming to the aid of others and strangers... but out of respect for the situation I took them out.

So, "examples of any deterrent effect are almost nil"? Simply google 'armed citizen defends' or search it on youtube and you will find plenty of examples of people who's lives would have been dramatically altered, raped or ended if they didn't have the ability to defend themselves from armed criminals. That's what I did and there were too many to count and every one of them has people who are fortunate and grateful to have the right to defend themselves.

When the constitution was written it took even longer than a few minutes to load a musket for someone to print and distribute opinion, it took hours if not days. When they wrote it they had no idea that someone could in seconds could spread their word to millions... so should we restrict freedom of speech since the forefathers had no conception of future advancements? I bet some would like that... I'm glad there's a constitution to protect us from them.

[ibraheim718]

Semi-automatics are legal.. the only way to get rid of them is to go into people's homes and destroy them...and not sure how you destroy guns out on the street...do you go around asking gangs to give up their arms?...same with other criminals...it is impossible....banning the second amendmet will only end up hurting normal regular citizens.

Your missing the point... I'm not saying to ban the second amendment. I'm saying suspend it temporarily... suspend production and the sale of semi-automatic and automatic weapons and employ thousands of people.. train them.. set up disposal and destruction centers... and the same way every single person gets his mailed delivered.. every single person will get their semi-automatic and automatic weapons confiscated.. heck offer them money for them to turn them in and issue a replacement six shot revolver or let your gun manufacturers cash in and let them produce a weapon that is only capable of disposing a certain number of shots.. small caliber.. there.. there's money for these pigs to make.

And don't forget... you already have ahead start with all the registered semi-automatic weapons... don't front like they didn't try and do this in california recently. Send letters out giving semi-automatic gun owners a certain amount of time to exchange them or turn them in. If you even destroy lets say 200 thousand semi-automatic weapons over a 5 year period that would be a huge success.