OT: 27 Killed, 18 elementary school students shot dead CON

[Moose]

Posting random Google searched articles of people dying from guns does not prove the point of destroying the second amendment.

Guns will still he obtained illegally, as they are in most cases involving crime...it is the same with drugs. People are simply pretending guns will disappear if we get rid of the 2nd amendment.

What will happen is that criminals will own all the guns, and we will have no way to revolt vs our government, if that government ever becomes corrupt.

[Knicker23]

You hear the same 3 things from people who love their guns after a mass murder.... 1) It's in the constitution!! 2) "A few bad eggs shouldn't spoil it for the rest of us 3) if ____ had had a gun, it may not have happened!

None of which are strong enough to argue for continuing down the road we're on now.

People kill people, but the instruments which they use are of extreme importance. Sure you hear obscure scenarios in Chinda of a mass murder with a knife, but it's just that; rare. Not being able to obtain a gun i'd imagine would deter countless **** like this from ever happening.

It's comical to hear people say a solution is to "train teachers with firearms" -- as if a first grade teacher having a pistol locked away is a) a smart idea b) solution to stop someone like this from doing something like this. c) what's next, training nurses with firearms? Why stop there... will every single person everywhere be trained? Will that do anything? Is that realistic

[Fury]

I thought the China example favors gun regulation. The guy killed 1 person.

[HarthorneWingo]

Posting random Google searched articles of people dying from guns does not prove the point of destroying the second amendment.

Guns will still he obtained illegally, as they are in most cases involving crime...it is the same with drugs. People are simply pretending guns will disappear if we get rid of the 2nd amendment.

What will happen is that criminals will own all the guns, and we will have no way to revolt vs our government, if that government ever becomes corrupt.

And some people just don't want to learn. Does it have to hit a little closer to home before you understand?

What's your "constitutional" argument?

[CrazyKnicks]

Not to add fuel to any side of the argument of gun control, but...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asi ... hpt=hp_bn2

This happened today as well. 22 kids injured in an apparent knife attack. I guess we should start thinking about curbing knives as well? These sickos will do it one way or another, IMHO.

China has strict gun regulations. The kids in Connecticut would still be alive if the guy had a knife instead of a gun.

Not just regulations, but I'm sure families in China are not as dysfunctional as the ones in U.S.

I agree.

Too many parents let their kids go once the kid hits 18, they stop being there for their kid. It's happened to a few of my friends and I feel like no matter how old you are, having a strong relationship with your parents or at least family members you can trust is really important. All it takes is a bad turn for these people to go insane since nobody is there for them....

I pray for the victims, this is really sad, man just elementary school kids.

Gun control especially on automatic weapons needs to happen ASAP. When people are being murdered, I do not care what Constitution argument you can bring up.

[Moose]

You hear the same 3 things from people who love their guns after a mass murder.... 1) It's in the constitution!! 2) "A few bad eggs shouldn't spoil it for the rest of us 3) if ____ had had a gun, it may not have happened!

None of which are strong enough to argue for continuing down the road we're on now.

People kill people, but the instruments which they use are of extreme importance. Sure you hear obscure scenarios in Chinda of a mass murder with a knife, but it's just that; rare. Not being able to obtain a gun i'd imagine would deter countless **** like this from ever happening.

It's comical to hear people say a solution is to "train teachers with firearms" -- as if a first grade teacher having a pistol locked away is a) a smart idea b) solution to stop someone like this from doing something like this. c) what's next, training nurses with firearms? Why stop there... will every single person everywhere be trained? Will that do anything? Is that realistic

Many things are illegal and can still be obtained for those with bad intentions. You are taking for granted the life you have. It may sound silly, but countries like Iran that try to revolt, cannot do so because their govt took away their right to bear arms.

I know it is hard to believe, but one day we may be in such a terrible position. Not to mention with no protection, burglaries will rise, and criminals will obtain guns. It will be like the war on drugs, and I think we all agree how horrible that is.

[Grinditout]

Banning guns from civilians will not prevent future mass murders or crazy outbursts from occurring. But it would prevent alot of the accidental shootings that Hawthorne used examples from...

[Anotha Knicks fan]

Not to add fuel to any side of the argument of gun control, but...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asi ... hpt=hp_bn2

This happened today as well. 22 kids injured in an apparent knife attack. I guess we should start thinking about curbing knives as well? These sickos will do it one way or another, IMHO.

China has strict gun regulations. The kids in Connecticut would still be alive if the guy had a knife instead of a gun.

My point in posting the story was not to show the difference between the two... I was merely posting it to show that there are crazies everywhere in the world. Maybe we could be talking about the stabbings instead of the killings if we had gun control laws, but is this any better? What I am getting at is that there is a sickness going on in the world that is manifesting itself on society. To turn this solely into a gun control issue is a bit myopic. While it does deserve some merit, this shouldn't be the big issue that needs to be tackled. It's like someone infected with a deadly virus treating the sickness with a band aid on a cut. (Maybe that analogy isn't the best, but you get what I mean.) People are going crazy.

[Moose]

Posting random Google searched articles of people dying from guns does not prove the point of destroying the second amendment.

Guns will still he obtained illegally, as they are in most cases involving crime...it is the same with drugs. People are simply pretending guns will disappear if we get rid of the 2nd amendment.

What will happen is that criminals will own all the guns, and we will have no way to revolt vs our government, if that government ever becomes corrupt.

And some people just don't want to learn. Does it have to hit a little closer to home before you understand?

What's your "constitutional" argument?

You can say that about anything wingo. What is the argument for abortion? Or dangerous hate speech?...abortion is a horrible thing, but if I had a vote, I'd still vote pro choice because you have to weigh all the factors and take in all the angles.

[Fury]

Yes, stabbings and less deaths is better than 18 dead. That's the entire point.

Just because gun control needs regulation, doesn't mean we should overlook our medicine.

[Anotha Knicks fan]

Im all for trying to prevent what happened in it's entirety, not just the way it happened. I feel terrible for those families and the people that are affected. Not one of them will be the same. I can also understand the anger and the angst that comes with not being able to do something about it. But a sicko like that will do what they will with or without a gun. It may make it harder for them to obtain a gun, but not impossible.

[-Ducky-]

Its very easy to marginalize this, and say better gun control would have prevented this. I disagree. To me this is a sickness in our culture. We live in a world of social media, 24 hour news, and nobodys like this kid get these twisted fantasy's where they become relevant. We, the public at large, make that happen. We immortalize them, and indirectly inspire others.

I dont know how to stop it, but guns are not the issue. It is however a very easy target, something the victims, politians, the media, can pick at, and say this is who you should blame. Its not that these people performed these acts cause guns just happened to be convenient to them. They would have found a way.

[Fury]

Im all for trying to prevent what happened in it's entirety, not just the way it happened. I feel terrible for those families and the people that are affected. Not one of them will be the same. I can also understand the anger and the angst that comes with not being able to do something about it. But a sicko like that will do what they will with or without a gun. It may make it harder for them to obtain a gun, but not impossible.

So lets try to make it more difficult, and lets try to make him do it without a gun. Minimize the damage. If it's gonna happen, its better doing it without a gun.

[Fury]

Its very easy to marginalize this, and say better gun control would have prevented this. I disagree. To me this is a sickness in our culture. We live in a world of social media, 24 hour news, and nobodys like this kid get these twisted fantasy's where they become relevant. We, the public at large, make that happen. We immortalize them, and indirectly inspire others.

I dont know how to stop it, but guns are not the issue. It is however a very easy target, something the victims, politians, the media, can pick at, and say this is who you should blame. Its not that these people performed these acts cause guns just happened to be convenient to them. They would have found a way.

Why can't both guns and the sickness in our culture be a fault? Why does it have to be one or the other? Lets fix both

[Grinditout]

I'm trying to figure out around what period of time did all these mass murders/shooting became more prevalent. At first glance I was thinking about the age of the internet, social media, and possibly their role in these incidents. But these kinds of things have been happening long before then possibly the 80s? Most of my childhood was in the late 80s early 90s. If anyone older has a perspective on this, please chime in.

[CrazyKnicks]

Its very easy to marginalize this, and say better gun control would have prevented this. I disagree. To me this is a sickness in our culture. We live in a world of social media, 24 hour news, and nobodys like this kid get these twisted fantasy's where they become relevant. We, the public at large, make that happen. We immortalize them, and indirectly inspire others.

I dont know how to stop it, but guns are not the issue. It is however a very easy target, something the victims, politians, the media, can pick at, and say this is who you should blame. Its not that these people performed these acts cause guns just happened to be convenient to them. They would have found a way.

Why can't both guns and the sickness in our culture be a fault? Why does it have to be one or the other? Lets fix both

This.

Not saying guns are the reason they commit their acts, but without these weapons, they can't kill so many people in such a short period of time.

[HarthorneWingo]

Posting random Google searched articles of people dying from guns does not prove the point of destroying the second amendment.

Guns will still he obtained illegally, as they are in most cases involving crime...it is the same with drugs. People are simply pretending guns will disappear if we get rid of the 2nd amendment.

What will happen is that criminals will own all the guns, and we will have no way to revolt vs our government, if that government ever becomes corrupt.

And some people just don't want to learn. Does it have to hit a little closer to home before you understand?

What's your "constitutional" argument?

You can say that about anything wingo. What is the argument for abortion? Or dangerous hate speech?...abortion is a horrible thing, but if I had a vote, I'd still vote pro choice because you have to weigh all the factors and take in all the angles.

Abortion? Really moose? That's your answer?

Let's stick to guns. The tragedies are pilling up while examples of any deterrent effect are almost nil. All you do is parrot NRA talking points which we all know are nonsense.

[Moose]

And some people just don't want to learn. Does it have to hit a little closer to home before you understand?

What's your "constitutional" argument?

You can say that about anything wingo. What is the argument for abortion? Or dangerous hate speech?...abortion is a horrible thing, but if I had a vote, I'd still vote pro choice because you have to weigh all the factors and take in all the angles.

Abortion? Really moose? That's your answer?

Let's stick to guns. The tragedies are pilling up while examples of any deterrent effect are almost nil. All you do is parrot NRA talking points which we all know are nonsense.

You asked a ridiculous question and I still provided a valid answer...you responded by saying nothing of substance....shocking.

[-Ducky-]

Its very easy to marginalize this, and say better gun control would have prevented this. I disagree. To me this is a sickness in our culture. We live in a world of social media, 24 hour news, and nobodys like this kid get these twisted fantasy's where they become relevant. We, the public at large, make that happen. We immortalize them, and indirectly inspire others.

I dont know how to stop it, but guns are not the issue. It is however a very easy target, something the victims, politians, the media, can pick at, and say this is who you should blame. Its not that these people performed these acts cause guns just happened to be convenient to them. They would have found a way.

Why can't both guns and the sickness in our culture be a fault? Why does it have to be one or the other? Lets fix both

This.

Not saying guns are the reason they commit their acts, but without these weapons, they can't kill so many people in such a short period of time.

It wasnt even his gun apparently. It belonged to this mother. How do you prepare or control something like that? Alll I'm saying where there is a will, there is a way. I'm not an advocate of guns, I'm saying guns are not issue. Guns have always been relevant, but why is it that school/public shootings have skyrocketed only in the last decade? People just want to point the finger at something. The Vtech kid used a semiautomatic glocks, the vanilla of handguns. All guns are lethal, its all a matter of how fast you pull the trigger.

[ibraheim718]

Let's face it. When the Constitution was written, our forefathers had weapons where it took five minutes to load with rifle with pellets and gun powder before they could fire a shot. And the politics of the day was much different as we had just fought the Revolutionary War and was just starting our country. The same justifications are not true today.

Exactly. Like I said earlier... sweep the country.. bring back the troops to do it and employ the unemployed also. Any automatic weapons or semi-automatic weapons that are found are destroyed... if someone is deemed "sane" enough or have no criminal record they can own 1 six-shot revolver or in cases where they depend on hunting for food or to protect themselves from wildlife they can own 1 rifle or 1 non-automatic shotgun.. and of course a compound Bow... that's it. You want to protect yourself... and you're proved responsible enough you can own a revolver. This doesn't happen if the kid only has a revolver. There's your second amendment.. enjoy it.

Just get the glocks, the extended magazines, the Ar15's and all the other semi-automatic weapons off of the street NOW. Start now because a project of this magnitude will take years.

The days where any dumb ass can get an assault rifle, some body armor and an extended clip needs to stop.