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Around the NBA part 2

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Post#901 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:26 am by knicksnyk

Quick Kick wrote:
KnickSon75 wrote:Confused by all the Lin/Houston love in this thread? Do they not let Knick fans post on the Houston board? Yall can always head over there and drop all kinds of gifs/youtubeclips/jpegs/tweets/fan mail/poetry and I think they would appreciate it more and give yah better conversation then we would give. Or should we change the name of this thread to "Whats Lin doing tonight that he could have been doing for us"? dudes gone lol

right?

but when he shoots 3-11 or 2-9 two or three games straight.....all you hear is crickets from these guys. They only show up when he has a good game once a week. Bill Bradley is the worst. Why do you come back here? You're a Houstonian now. Congrats. You no longer have ties to the Knicks. Clutchfans misses you.


You are very right. But when he has a great game you all come out with your nonsense. Both parties embarrass themselves. For someone that doesn't want to hear about Lin anymore you are ALWAYS involved in the conversation.
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Post#902 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:30 am by HerSports85

Bill Bradley wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
Bill Bradley wrote:Lin and Rockets haters out in full force. Most of the posters on this board had the Rockets pegged as the worst team in the league this season. Now it's "they are good but not built for the playoffs" and "but, but, Lin has a lot of turnovers".


I think a lot of people said this before they got harden, and they were right. Replace harden with K martin and I believe they're 9th seed. Be realistic, having your point guard turn the ball over 7 times is disaster in the playoffs. Not to mention his inconsistency.

With that said, as i stated, the offense run smooth, the defense is suspect ... do you disagree?

:roll: :roll:

Guess you a "hater" and out in "full force" if mention anything negative about lin on a Knicks site... smh.


I just point out when people are stretching to bash a player. And the hate is unwarranted, especially when we are talking about a good character guy who played his heart out for the Knicks.

The offense runs smooth largely due to Lin. When he's not on the court, things get ugly fast. The defense is not suspect- it is average, which you would expect with this style of play.

Lin has fewer turnovers this season than Rondo, Westbrook, Knight, Curry, Holiday, Vasquez, and Lillard this season but you never hear anyone talk about their turnovers. And he is also among the league leaders in steals. With the Rockets style of play, you are going to have turnovers- Harden has more than Lin. Lin more than makes up for turnovers with his steals and rebounds.


Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.

Also, I advise you to look at other boards. I post on the Pistons site as well, and posters always complain about B. Knight, but the difference is ... no one is calling him an allstar or a top pg in the league. As far as Westbrook, Rondo and Curry .. no one really complains about their turnovers because of theirs assists, points. consistency, and defense.

As for Lillard, dude is a rookie .. come on. And Holiday has improved every single year he's been in the league.

Not saying Lin is a bad point guard, but he needs to be more consistent and cut down on the 6/7 game turnovers. There is area for improvement. Just don't think he's the allstar you make him out to be, especially when you have point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Toney Parker, Kyle Irving, Rondo, and Westbrook.
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Post#903 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:40 am by bfpri

Houston rides on Lin more than you think. Not a coincidence that they were down double digits in the first half and Lin was playing like crap. When Lin started playing better, they won the second half. Their recent 15 game run has also come on the improved play of Lin. Its not all Harden, look at the rockets record with Harden and with Lin playing like crap versus the last 15 games where he has stopped sucking.
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Post#904 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:47 am by knicksnyk

HerSports85 wrote:
Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.

Also, I advise you to look at other boards. I post on the Pistons site as well, and posters always complain about B. Knight, but the difference is ... no one is calling him an allstar or a top pg in the league. As far as Westbrook, Rondo and Curry .. no one really complains about their turnovers because of theirs assists, points. consistency, and defense.

As for Lillard, dude is a rookie .. come on. And Holiday has improved every single year he's been in the league.

Not saying Lin is a bad point guard, but he needs to be more consistent and cut down on the 6/7 game turnovers. There is area for improvement. Just don't think he's the allstar you make him out to be, especially when you have point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Toney Parker, Kyle Irving, Rondo, and Westbrook.


Nobody calls Lin an all star. Lins defense is solid and has been so for the entire season. Lin is also a rookie in terms of experience hasn't even started a full nba season. If Jrue has improved every year why can't lin do the same get real. And how many PG's who have less than a season as a full time starter under there belt are all stars? And how many PG's who have less than a season as a full time starter under there belt are consistent. He is young he is supposed to be inconsistent. A lot of what you said makes no sense.
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Post#905 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:50 am by gmoney411

HerSports85 wrote:[

Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.


Points given up is not the best way to determine defense. The Rockets play at a faster pace than anybody in the NBA. As a result, opponents end up with a lot more fg attempts. FG% is a much better way to determine how good a team is defensively.
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Post#906 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:59 am by Bill Bradley

gmoney411 wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:[

Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.


Points given up is not the best way to determine defense. The Rockets play at a faster pace than anybody in the NBA. As a result, opponents end up with a lot more fg attempts. FG% is a much better way to determine how good a team is defensively.

Points allowed per possession takes pace into account. The Rockets are 16th in the league. So they are average defensively.
JunkYardSubs wrote:Who would think an Asian kid from Harvard would have so much success?!
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Post#907 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:06 am by gmoney411

Bill Bradley wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:[

Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.


Points given up is not the best way to determine defense. The Rockets play at a faster pace than anybody in the NBA. As a result, opponents end up with a lot more fg attempts. FG% is a much better way to determine how good a team is defensively.

Points allowed per possession takes pace into account. The Rockets are 16th in the league. So they are average defensively.


I agree. I just went with fg% to avoid any arguments about whether or not PPP was a good stat to use or not.
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Post#908 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:15 am by HarthorneWingo

We made a mistake on Lin. Dolan, the "businessman" who demands loyalty, let his feelings get hurt so he made a decision based on emotion. It had nothing to do with good business judgment and what was in the best interest of the team.
"Melo, get the rebound!"
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Post#909 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:16 am by ibraheim718

HerSports85 wrote:
Bill Bradley wrote:
I just point out when people are stretching to bash a player. And the hate is unwarranted, especially when we are talking about a good character guy who played his heart out for the Knicks.

The offense runs smooth largely due to Lin. When he's not on the court, things get ugly fast. The defense is not suspect- it is average, which you would expect with this style of play.

Lin has fewer turnovers this season than Rondo, Westbrook, Knight, Curry, Holiday, Vasquez, and Lillard this season but you never hear anyone talk about their turnovers. And he is also among the league leaders in steals. With the Rockets style of play, you are going to have turnovers- Harden has more than Lin. Lin more than makes up for turnovers with his steals and rebounds.


Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.

Also, I advise you to look at other boards. I post on the Pistons site as well, and posters always complain about B. Knight, but the difference is ... no one is calling him an allstar or a top pg in the league. As far as Westbrook, Rondo and Curry .. no one really complains about their turnovers because of theirs assists, points. consistency, and defense.

As for Lillard, dude is a rookie .. come on. And Holiday has improved every single year he's been in the league.

Not saying Lin is a bad point guard, but he needs to be more consistent and cut down on the 6/7 game turnovers. There is area for improvement. Just don't think he's the allstar you make him out to be, especially when you have point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Toney Parker, Kyle Irving, Rondo, and Westbrook.


I've never seen BB make Lin out to be an allstar... you must be thinking of "gettinitdone".

The Rockets are starting to look like a team nobody is going to want to play in the playoffs.
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Post#910 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:04 am by HerSports85

knicksnyk wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.

Also, I advise you to look at other boards. I post on the Pistons site as well, and posters always complain about B. Knight, but the difference is ... no one is calling him an allstar or a top pg in the league. As far as Westbrook, Rondo and Curry .. no one really complains about their turnovers because of theirs assists, points. consistency, and defense.

As for Lillard, dude is a rookie .. come on. And Holiday has improved every single year he's been in the league.

Not saying Lin is a bad point guard, but he needs to be more consistent and cut down on the 6/7 game turnovers. There is area for improvement. Just don't think he's the allstar you make him out to be, especially when you have point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Toney Parker, Kyle Irving, Rondo, and Westbrook.


Nobody calls Lin an all star. Lins defense is solid and has been so for the entire season. Lin is also a rookie in terms of experience hasn't even started a full nba season. If Jrue has improved every year why can't lin do the same get real. And how many PG's who have less than a season as a full time starter under there belt are all stars? And how many PG's who have less than a season as a full time starter under there belt are consistent. He is young he is supposed to be inconsistent. A lot of what you said makes no sense.



Reading is fundamental, I stated that there is room for improvement with Lin, which indicates he can in fact improve and most likely will as he gain more experience.

And no one called Lin an allstar??? really, no one? Not only on this board has he been called an allstar but apparently a lot of other people think so as well, since he's 3rd in allstar votes among guards.

As far as the inconsistent argument, I brought it up because of the statements saying no one points out turnovers in other point guards, but fact is they do and for the one's that doesn't get this criticism as much is because they're consistent, able to control the game, and is more of a scoring threat on a night in and night out bases.

Now what I been trying to say is that .. in order for the rockets to take the next step, Lin has to be more consistent, cut down on the turnovers and the team has to do better on defense, but people want to take offense to that?? WOW :lol: In the western conference, these things are the difference between 4th and 8th place and advancing out the first round.

Also as far as defense, opp. ppg is huge in the playoffs. Look at the leading teams in that conference scoring stats who also play fast pace and are considered championship contenders.

1. Clippers - 8th in scoring / 4th in scoring defense
2. Spurs - 3rd in scoring/ 9th in scoring defense
3. OKC - 2nd in scoring / 10th in scoring defense

There's a reason houston is 7-12 in their conference. Defense just needs to be tightened before the playoffs, because although they're a scoring machine, once the playoffs start, teams will target and focus on taking Harden and Lin out of their game. And most likely they will draw San Antonio or Memphis who can be bullies on the defensive side and still score with the best of them.

If it makes any of you feel better, our defense need to improve as well ... is that better? 8-)
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Post#911 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:18 am by gmoney411

HerSports85 wrote:
Also as far as defense, opp. ppg is huge in the playoffs. Look at the leading teams in that conference scoring stats who also play fast pace and are considered championship contenders.

1. Clippers - 8th in scoring / 4th in scoring defense
2. Spurs - 3rd in scoring/ 9th in scoring defense
3. OKC - 2nd in scoring / 10th in scoring defense

There's a reason houston is 7-12 in their conference. Defense just needs to be tightened before the playoffs, because although they're a scoring machine, once the playoffs start, teams will target and focus on taking Harden and Lin out of their game. And most likely they will draw San Antonio or Memphis who can be bullies on the defensive side and still score with the best of them.

If it makes any of you feel better, our defense need to improve as well ... is that better? 8-)


You have given no real reasons as to why you should go by ppg instead of fg% or PPP. Why is that stat a better indicator of defense when it completely ignores pace? I'd really like to hear why you think it is the better way to judge team defense.

The Rockets aren't beating the Spurs or the Thunder no matter what. They are 0-5 against those teams and its a large reason why their conference record is so bad because they have played so many games against them so early in the season. The last time they played Memphis they beat them by 20+.
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Post#912 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:19 am by fdr2012

god shammgod wrote:
Dudedude88 wrote:it was a big game cause everybody likes to see the Fakers lose. This game pretty much ends their playoff contention. They have to win like 66% of there games after this point.


they're 3 back in the loss column of the last spot. it's early to call it over.


They have two games @Spurs and then OKC coming up. With Howard/Gasol out they will lose both and go 15-21 with 46 game remaining. They will need to go at least 30-16 during those last 46 games to makes the playoffs.

That's a pipe dream. Not happening. Lakers are done. They are not making the playoffs.
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Post#913 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:27 am by gmoney411

fdr2012 wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Dudedude88 wrote:it was a big game cause everybody likes to see the Fakers lose. This game pretty much ends their playoff contention. They have to win like 66% of there games after this point.


they're 3 back in the loss column of the last spot. it's early to call it over.


They have two games @Spurs and then OKC coming up. With Howard/Gasol out they will lose both and go 15-21 with 46 game remaining. They will need to go at least 30-16 during those last 46 games to makes the playoffs.

That's a pipe dream. Not happening. Lakers are done. They are not making the playoffs.


Why is that a pipe dream? That is the pace that you would have to play at to win 53 games during a full regular season which is about a 4-5 seed most years. The Lakers are definitely capable of playing at that level. Not saying it will happen but it isn't some far fetched scenario.
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Post#914 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:32 am by HerSports85

gmoney411 wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
Also as far as defense, opp. ppg is huge in the playoffs. Look at the leading teams in that conference scoring stats who also play fast pace and are considered championship contenders.

1. Clippers - 8th in scoring / 4th in scoring defense
2. Spurs - 3rd in scoring/ 9th in scoring defense
3. OKC - 2nd in scoring / 10th in scoring defense

There's a reason houston is 7-12 in their conference. Defense just needs to be tightened before the playoffs, because although they're a scoring machine, once the playoffs start, teams will target and focus on taking Harden and Lin out of their game. And most likely they will draw San Antonio or Memphis who can be bullies on the defensive side and still score with the best of them.

If it makes any of you feel better, our defense need to improve as well ... is that better? 8-)


You have given no real reasons as to why you should go by ppg instead of fg% or PPP. Why is that stat a better indicator of defense when it completely ignores pace? I'd really like to hear why you think it is the better way to judge team defense.

The Rockets aren't beating the Spurs or the Thunder no matter what. They are 0-5 against those teams and its a large reason why their conference record is so bad because they have played so many games against them so early in the season. The last time they played Memphis they beat them by 20+.


It's a couple stats I look at when concerning defense.

points allowed - ranked 29th
Opp. FG% - ranked 23rd
Opp. FGA - 30th
Opp. Offensive rebound - 9th
fast break scoring - 28th


The good is they're among the leaders in steals and forcing turnovers, but so are some of the league worst teams.
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Post#915 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:32 am by Bravery

HawthorneWingo wrote:We made a mistake on Lin. Dolan, the "businessman" who demands loyalty, let his feelings get hurt so he made a decision based on emotion. It had nothing to do with good business judgment and what was in the best interest of the team.


This.

Not a homer Lin fan, but I will never forgive what Dolan has done with this team in the past decade. Just because we're doing well this season doesn't mean he's off the hook (and I say this as a clear supporter of the Melo trade mind you.) Any long time Knick fan knows all too well about the people that run this gig.

ibraheim718 wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
Bill Bradley wrote:
I just point out when people are stretching to bash a player. And the hate is unwarranted, especially when we are talking about a good character guy who played his heart out for the Knicks.

The offense runs smooth largely due to Lin. When he's not on the court, things get ugly fast. The defense is not suspect- it is average, which you would expect with this style of play.

Lin has fewer turnovers this season than Rondo, Westbrook, Knight, Curry, Holiday, Vasquez, and Lillard this season but you never hear anyone talk about their turnovers. And he is also among the league leaders in steals. With the Rockets style of play, you are going to have turnovers- Harden has more than Lin. Lin more than makes up for turnovers with his steals and rebounds.


Average on defense? They give up 100pts per game, and currently ranked 29th. Only ahead of the bobcats.

Also, I advise you to look at other boards. I post on the Pistons site as well, and posters always complain about B. Knight, but the difference is ... no one is calling him an allstar or a top pg in the league. As far as Westbrook, Rondo and Curry .. no one really complains about their turnovers because of theirs assists, points. consistency, and defense.

As for Lillard, dude is a rookie .. come on. And Holiday has improved every single year he's been in the league.

Not saying Lin is a bad point guard, but he needs to be more consistent and cut down on the 6/7 game turnovers. There is area for improvement. Just don't think he's the allstar you make him out to be, especially when you have point guards in the league like Chris Paul, Toney Parker, Kyle Irving, Rondo, and Westbrook.


I've never seen BB make Lin out to be an allstar... you must be thinking of "gettinitdone".

The Rockets are starting to look like a team nobody is going to want to play in the playoffs.


This too.

Lin has solid potential. Can orchestrate the offense, penetration, court vision, plays like a big guard who rebounds very well, plays the passing lanes, no baggage, and all that. Although I think this, I'm not gonna act like a moron and say that he's gonna be Chris Paul. Come on, that's just plain foolish. He's still young and inexperienced with a lot of weaknesses: Shooting range, man to man defense, handling opposing def pressure and of course ball protection. Despite those major flaws, he does possess a good work ethic and I can imagine the pressure is going to make him strive to be better. I can also easily see myself rooting for him as he's not a complete jerk around the league. When NYK plays against him though obviously, I won't be as complimentary.

It's just a shame that some of his eccentric supporters made him into a bad person in the minds of a lot of other fans. I mean, the guy isn't a deity ffs. He's currently a role player-PG distributor with real potential to be something better down the road. That's it. We all know HOU is James Harden's team. If Lin continues to develop his mid-perimeter shot, he could be a real nice piece with him.

On an unrelated note, BKN defeated Philly tonight and they're slowly catching ground. We have to ramp up our intensity on defense and leave whatever thoughts we had in that Boston game behind us.
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Post#916 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:07 am by gmoney411

HerSports85 wrote:
gmoney411 wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:
Also as far as defense, opp. ppg is huge in the playoffs. Look at the leading teams in that conference scoring stats who also play fast pace and are considered championship contenders.

1. Clippers - 8th in scoring / 4th in scoring defense
2. Spurs - 3rd in scoring/ 9th in scoring defense
3. OKC - 2nd in scoring / 10th in scoring defense

There's a reason houston is 7-12 in their conference. Defense just needs to be tightened before the playoffs, because although they're a scoring machine, once the playoffs start, teams will target and focus on taking Harden and Lin out of their game. And most likely they will draw San Antonio or Memphis who can be bullies on the defensive side and still score with the best of them.

If it makes any of you feel better, our defense need to improve as well ... is that better? 8-)


You have given no real reasons as to why you should go by ppg instead of fg% or PPP. Why is that stat a better indicator of defense when it completely ignores pace? I'd really like to hear why you think it is the better way to judge team defense.

The Rockets aren't beating the Spurs or the Thunder no matter what. They are 0-5 against those teams and its a large reason why their conference record is so bad because they have played so many games against them so early in the season. The last time they played Memphis they beat them by 20+.


It's a couple stats I look at when concerning defense.

points allowed - ranked 29th
Opp. FG% - ranked 23rd
Opp. FGA - 30th
Opp. Offensive rebound - 9th
fast break scoring - 28th


The good is they're among the leaders in steals and forcing turnovers, but so are some of the league worst teams.


OPP FGA is not a defensive stat. It is a product of their fast paced offensive. Opponents take more shots because each team has more possessions. The Rockets are not a great defensive team at all but they are more lower half of the league than the very bottom. They have a good paint protector in Asik and a good perimeter defender in Parsons.
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Post#917 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:59 am by knicksnyk

Rated [R] Superstar wrote:
It's just a shame that some of his eccentric supporters made him into a bad person in the minds of a lot of other fans. I mean, the guy isn't a deity ffs. He's currently a role player-PG distributor with real potential to be something better down the road. That's it. We all know HOU is James Harden's team. If Lin continues to develop his mid-perimeter shot, he could be a real nice piece with him.



The rockets aren't building around James Harden or Lin or Asik or whoever. They are building around a philosophy. Fast pace, dribble penetration by there guards, PNR, getting to the FT line, shots at the rim & 3's. Rockets are essentially money balling there team. Only taking the most efficient shots in the NBA shots at the rim, FT's & 3's they hardly ever take long 2's or other inefficient shots. It isn't Hardens team if anything it is Morey's team because it is built around his analytics approach

Look at there main core

Lin parsons harden Asik. they are all good passers for there position, good FT shooters for there position, efficient scorers & proficient in the PNR in some capacity. Lin & Harden are both elite PNR ball handlers who like to drive to the basket are quick & can beat there man off the dribble. They arent building around Harden they are building around a philosophy & Harden is just one of there 4 main pieces. The Rockets owner said as much, they have a philosophy & they are only going to find guys that fit that philosophy.
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Post#918 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:01 am by fdr2012

gmoney411 wrote:Why is that a pipe dream? That is the pace that you would have to play at to win 53 games during a full regular season which is about a 4-5 seed most years. The Lakers are definitely capable of playing at that level. Not saying it will happen but it isn't some far fetched scenario.


That's a 65% winning percentage. There's hardly an precedent for a team to go from 40% during the first half of the season to 65% during the second half. Those things simply don't happen more than 1-2 times in a decade.

And even if they somehow pull it off and get the 8th seed, they will get swept by OKC.

Lakers are done.
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Post#919 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:16 am by Bruteque

KnickSon75 wrote:Confused by all the Lin/Houston love in this thread? Do they not let Knick fans post on the Houston board? Yall can always head over there and drop all kinds of gifs/youtubeclips/jpegs/tweets/fan mail/poetry and I think they would appreciate it more and give yah better conversation then we would give. Or should we change the name of this thread to "Whats Lin doing tonight that he could have been doing for us"? dudes gone lol


I can assure you that they won't. If anything ,the Lin hate over on the main Rockets board is twice as bad as it is here. I think most of the posters there who think highly of Lin are actually from New York. If you praise Lin there you are immediately met with mass "accusations" of being a New York fan.

:lol:

In case you haven't been reading their forum for amusement, here's the basic Houston/Lin timeline:

The first 2 games: The Rockets had just landed Harden, but hadn't had a chance to practice with him, so they just let the players do whatever. They went 2-0.

The next 19 games: The Rockets finally got the chance to practice with Harden. The coaching staff announced publicly that there will be no more quote-unquote "democratic ball" and everything would run through Harden. Lin was used as a spot-up shooter and Harden's efficiency dropped through the floor during this stretch. Numerous players (none of them Lin) complained about the coaching, but the coaching staff didn't budge. The Rockets went 7-12 (3-9 vs the West) and Lin shot 38% over this stretch. However, Lin was allowed to play point guard in one game during this stretch. Unfortunately, it was the Knicks game. Guess the coaches wanted to throw him a bone against his old team.

:lol:

The Spurs game: Harden sat out one game with an ankle sprain. Lin dropped 38 on the Spurs. The Rockets held a nice lead down the 4th, but the coaching staff sat Lin out for 4 crucial minutes and the Spurs destroyed Toney Douglas, scoring at a 40-point quarter pace while holding the Rockets to 2 points and managed to claw their way to OT and won it. The coaching staff was chewed out.

The 15 games since: The coaching staff let Lin play some point guard again. The Rockets went 12-3 (4-2 vs the West) and Lin shot 51% over this stretch.

:lol:

Alright. There's my one good deed for the day, just in case people want some extra information to keep in mind while making observations about the Rockets and what they are doing.
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Post#920 Re: Around the NBA part 2
Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:42 am by Bran Fast Hands

I could not care less about Jeremy Lin. I want a detailed break down of Landry Fields and Jared Jefferies seasons.
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