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Until further notice The Knicks are soft.

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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#46 » by MeloNY » Tue Jan 8, 2013 2:39 pm

We are mentally weak team, there is no other way to put it. We are quick to lose our composure. Can't contend for a chip when guys constantly let other players and/or the refs take them out of their game. Happens much too often with this team. The biggest culprits are Melo, Tyson, JR. Smith, and, at times, Woodson. Now I'm one of the biggest fans of all four of those guys but I need to call it like I see it. The team could stand to learn a lot from Jason Kidd's demeanor on the court, you rarely see him get rattled. If we could learn to keep our emotions in check, and channel that emotion into positive energy and focus on the court, the sky is the limit for this team.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#47 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:06 pm

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YOU HAVE NO MARBLES

there is nothing soft about the Knicks. Do they lose there cool a bit too much...maybe.

There is absolutely nothing soft about the knicks or how they play. If someone talked about my family the way that scumbag KG did to Melo I would of reacted the exact same way.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#48 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:08 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:OP is right, we are soft. Whenever a team plays physical, we give up and start whining. That goes for both the players and the fans.


that is not the defenition of soft sir.

We play physical, now if you have made a statement that we may lose are cool from time to time. That would have some credence to it.

But saying we are soft is so far from the truth.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#49 » by omerome » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:14 pm

Being soft is not standing up for yourself when someone picks on you.

I saw nothing like that from the Knicks this season.

Previous years, yeah. Not this team though.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#50 » by mpharris36 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:20 pm

if you want to argue the team needs to keep better composure that is one thing

but the people saying we are soft?

read an english dictionary...
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#51 » by clipse375 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 3:22 pm

Wow, another dumb thread.

Knicks aren't soft. I just wish Rasheed Wallace was out there during all this, and see if you still made this dumb thread.

Props to Melo for standing up to KG, and not taking his bully B.S.

The only one soft on this team is Novak.

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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#52 » by QueenzAllDay » Tue Jan 8, 2013 4:16 pm

This is NOT a dumb thread and I agree with the OP. As a team we are soft. We let the other team or officials get to our head which makes us lose games. This will be a MAJOR problem come playoff time.

When we lose track of the game WE REALLY lose track of the game. It seems like no one cares about making the next stop, getting the next basket. All we seem to care about is "expressing" ourselfs in the WORST possible time. It always seems to happen at crunch time or during a crucial run.

This needs to stop and Woodson needs to get his teams mind right. We have too many Vets to allow this BS to go on any further.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#53 » by NoLayupRule » Tue Jan 8, 2013 4:58 pm

we are not soft
we are not mentally weak


what we are is at the next level talent-wise which is why teams that are lesser than us use thug tactics


fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.

the Celtics are a sub-500 team missing their best player. They countered with strong D and overly physical play. We tried to counter with shooting and speed. We failed. Just like against Chi.


There are few teams that have a combo of talent and physicality. Typically one or the other. Mem has both. Min too. Utah sorta.


Anyway what matters is that when we play small the physically play works against us because Melo has to over play bigger guys on D and gives up a lot on offense. If they bang him with a C or PF he doesnt flail and fall like LBJ and he doesnt get the calls so he lets it get under his skin.


We need to meet opponents Physicality with a combo of our own - Melo, Tyson, Thomas, Amare and Wallace are all very tough inside - and skill - we need penetration and dishing not post up play against thugs
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#54 » by AmazingJason » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:01 pm

QueenzAllDay wrote:This is NOT a dumb thread and I agree with the OP. As a team we are soft. We let the other team or officials get to our head which makes us lose games. This will be a MAJOR problem come playoff time.

When we lose track of the game WE REALLY lose track of the game. It seems like no one cares about making the next stop, getting the next basket. All we seem to care about is "expressing" ourselfs in the WORST possible time. It always seems to happen at crunch time or during a crucial run.

This needs to stop and Woodson needs to get his teams mind right. We have too many Vets to allow this BS to go on any further.


Yeah, can you imagine this during the playoffs? No way we last 4 rounds of this. But it's still early in the season. We have to learn from this and grow out of it a better team.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#55 » by Sprewell4Three » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:08 pm

clipse375 wrote:Wow, another dumb thread.

Knicks aren't soft. I just wish Rasheed Wallace was out there during all this, and see if you still made this dumb thread.

Props to Melo for standing up to KG, and not taking his bully B.S.

The only one soft on this team is Novak.

Lock.


Wow so now fans depend on a has been in Rasheed Wallace to make us tougher? really people?
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#56 » by clipse375 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:27 pm

Sprewell4Three wrote:
clipse375 wrote:Wow, another dumb thread.

Knicks aren't soft. I just wish Rasheed Wallace was out there during all this, and see if you still made this dumb thread.

Props to Melo for standing up to KG, and not taking his bully B.S.

The only one soft on this team is Novak.

Lock.


Wow so now fans depend on a has been in Rasheed Wallace to make us tougher? really people?


Uhhh..... what the hell does he bring then?

Why did we bring him here? To shoot 3s on the perimeter? To cheerlead at the bench? To shout ball don't lie from the bench?

Ask the front office, better, ask Coach Woodson what he brings to this team.

Some fans on here talk out of their ass.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#57 » by KingzAndQueenz » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:32 pm

Knicks are not "soft." However, they sure as hell are not tough. At least Melo isn't.

[rant]

I honestly don't give a sh*t what Kevin Garnett said to Melo. It doesn't matter at all. Kevin Garnett IS tough. Because he doesn't let sh*t get to him like Melo did. He plays his little mind games like a bitch, but all is fair in war and basketball. You never see Garnett get worked up by what someone says.

You guys all have the wrong impression of what being "tough" means. Melo is a "fake tough." Being tough doesn't mean waiting for Garnett outside of his bus to tell him some crap. Being tough doesn't mean screaming "f--- you" to KG mid game. Being tough doesn't mean screaming at the refs after every call and getting t-d up. Being tough doesn't mean letting some sh*t get to you and ruining your in-game performance.

No, being tough is something else. Being tough is playing your game no matter what. Being tough is being mentally strong and blocking out whatever an old prick like KG is saying. Regardless of what it is. Words are just words, it's your reaction to it that makes them meaningful or not.

Let's take LeBron for example. Down 3-2 in the ECF Finals. Going to the Celtics homecourt. You think Garnett didn't give LeBron sh*t? You think he didn't hear that Delonte f*cked his mother over and over again? You think Garnett didn't tell him that he failed to win a title last year? That he's a b*tch for leaving Cleveland? I'm sure he heard this over and over again.

What did LeBron do? Did he complain to the referee? Did he scream at KG? Did he give up the game and meet KG by the bus? No, he blocked him the f*ck out and shot 19/26 with 45 points, 15 boards, and 5 assists. Then he won the f*cking championship.

You think anything KG says will ever bother LeBron again? Never, because LeBron trained himself to be mentally strong, especially after all the crazy criticism he has heard his whole life. The best players are mentally strong.

As for Melo, I really hope he leaves his fake tough guy persona at home and focuses on the game. I hope Woodson gives him a serious talk. Enough of this sh*t. Every loss is exactly the same thing. Game doesn't go our way, Melo bitches and sucks. MVP's dont do that.

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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#58 » by FKF » Tue Jan 8, 2013 5:58 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:we are not soft
we are not mentally weak


what we are is at the next level talent-wise which is why teams that are lesser than us use thug tactics


fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.

the Celtics are a sub-500 team missing their best player. They countered with strong D and overly physical play. We tried to counter with shooting and speed. We failed. Just like against Chi.


There are few teams that have a combo of talent and physicality. Typically one or the other. Mem has both. Min too. Utah sorta.


Anyway what matters is that when we play small the physically play works against us because Melo has to over play bigger guys on D and gives up a lot on offense. If they bang him with a C or PF he doesnt flail and fall like LBJ and he doesnt get the calls so he lets it get under his skin.


We need to meet opponents Physicality with a combo of our own - Melo, Tyson, Thomas, Amare and Wallace are all very tough inside - and skill - we need penetration and dishing not post up play against thugs


agreed wiht this post

I don't understand how we can call this team soft while they're holding the second best conference record in the biggest US market.
Soft players don't win in NY. So far, these guys are doing pretty good.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#59 » by J0rdan4life42o » Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:19 pm

blumatic wrote:This deserves its own thread because this is not the result of just one game. Its been 3 games that have played out the exact same way. A soft showing by the Knicks.

Now I didnt see much complaining to the refs which was good. But this team loses these type of games.

Grizz and Bulls were blowouts. This game was close throughout but we should have won this game and we continue to make bone headed plays at the end (Melo and JR chucking threes) and not running the offense.


I know we're still unhealthy, I know STAT is still working his way in. I know our starting backcourt is out and we lost a close game. But there is a theme here and I dont like it.

This team looks like champs when everything clicks. But its a facade. Im looking of how the look when we beat a reall good defensive team and coming out on top in a close game.

We blew out MIAMI twice, blew out the Spurs. Ok fine. The only real game where we won a tough close game was the 1st Spurs contest. That was ages ago. As of late (3-4 at msg in last 7 games) we playing soft, our defense is not the killer its should be. Its not physical. Amare only 2 rebounds (he actually gets close to the ball and let his smaller teammates get it SMDH). Allowing big leads early in the game in disgraceful.

I cant say its only player. Collectively we soften up and dont play with savvy, which is what I expect with an older team. But the past 3-4 weeks have been a dissapointment. Our record is good but we dont have enough signature team defining wins. Blowouts dont count because its not adversity during a game.

We got two games against Indiana and Chicago. I expect two close games. If this team is serious about winning a ring. They win these next two games. No excuses.


Soft really? Yes, NY had a difficult time with the Memphis and Chicago, but lets be clear - NY's efficient offense relies heavily on ball movement that leads to open looks...the ball goes through Melo and the attention he draws initiates the ball movement that eventually leads to a good look at the basket. Not only are both of those teams elite at defending the 3 ball, but their the top two teams in the league this year at opponents APG (NY sits 4th btw)... they can kill a teams ball movement and guard the 3 point line like few teams do...what does that tell us? Woodson has to adjust his game plan against such teams, specifically the Bulls (Pacers too). Look for some weaknesses in their defensive strategies...run the ball harder against Memphis, Chicago and Indiana close out on the 3 point line hard, so take the ball inside a few feet in looking for a pass or mid range shot while their defense scrambles...can't go up against these teams thinking the 3s will just drop when they defend them the best.

But it doesn't mean the teams soft. The Boston game especially didn't prove that at all. Everyone here wanted that game last night, no need to misjudge this team because it got away from them in the end. This team is far from soft. The coaching staff adjusting their game plan and the players executing it is what we should be expecting the next time they go up against defenses like Chicago, Indiana and Memphis. We'll know soon how good of a coach Woody really is.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#60 » by QueenzAllDay » Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:31 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:we are not soft
we are not mentally weak


what we are is at the next level talent-wise which is why teams that are lesser than us use thug tactics


fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.

the Celtics are a sub-500 team missing their best player. They countered with strong D and overly physical play. We tried to counter with shooting and speed. We failed. Just like against Chi.


There are few teams that have a combo of talent and physicality. Typically one or the other. Mem has both. Min too. Utah sorta.


Anyway what matters is that when we play small the physically play works against us because Melo has to over play bigger guys on D and gives up a lot on offense. If they bang him with a C or PF he doesnt flail and fall like LBJ and he doesnt get the calls so he lets it get under his skin.


We need to meet opponents Physicality with a combo of our own - Melo, Tyson, Thomas, Amare and Wallace are all very tough inside - and skill - we need penetration and dishing not post up play against thugs



We are playing like an elite squad. Our X&O game is one of the best in the league. We can not allow our best player to play into the opponent's game. When he plays great everyone else follows. When he gets frustrated the same happens. This results in poor play. If Melo would stop complaining so frequently when he doesn't get calls we could of gotten a few more W's in what is already a successful season. The problem is he ALLOWS it to get under his skin.

My idea of toughness are guys who don't back down but stays on course. Patrick was a great example of this. He never backed down against his rivals. He took smack and threw it right back but in the process he got stops and got buckets.

Melo needs to get his mind right. Until he does that this team will be considered soft.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#61 » by TKF » Tue Jan 8, 2013 6:43 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:we are not soft
we are not mentally weak


what we are is at the next level talent-wise which is why teams that are lesser than us use thug tactics


fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.

the Celtics are a sub-500 team missing their best player. They countered with strong D and overly physical play. We tried to counter with shooting and speed. We failed. Just like against Chi.


There are few teams that have a combo of talent and physicality. Typically one or the other. Mem has both. Min too. Utah sorta.


Anyway what matters is that when we play small the physically play works against us because Melo has to over play bigger guys on D and gives up a lot on offense. If they bang him with a C or PF he doesnt flail and fall like LBJ and he doesnt get the calls so he lets it get under his skin.


We need to meet opponents Physicality with a combo of our own - Melo, Tyson, Thomas, Amare and Wallace are all very tough inside - and skill - we need penetration and dishing not post up play against thugs


despite the early record, do you honestly think that the celts and bulls are less than us? which is why they use "thug" tactics? not sure if that is a fair assesment, both the bulls and celts play this way vs everyone.. it is what they are and why they have been so successful over the past few years...

fans of the knicks should know this. we used these tactics all through the 90s. we were often vastly less skilled than our competition but we played tougher, harder and intimidated our opponents as often as not.


not sure I agree with that, we played that way because it suited the players we had, Ewing was always a top player in the league, oakley a top rebounder, we had talent, we played that way because we could, it suited a lot of those guys personality....
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#62 » by blumatic » Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:00 pm

Im glad people are seeing what I am seeing. We are a top 5 team in this league. I hold this team to a high standard.

In the past when the Celtics and other teams would blow us out, we were non competitive not necessarily soft.


We are a talented team and team with depth the rivals only the Clippers. But we get rattled so easily.

I wish this team would relish these games and enjoy the theatrics and use it against other teams. But its something the we have time to learn. And the next 2 games are a big test.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#63 » by Knicksfan20 » Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:21 pm

Soft is an extremely poor use of words.

Tyson
Amare
Melo
Sheed
KT
Shump
JR
Felton
Kidd
Camby

I dont see a single person in that group that is soft. We are still undermanned and not healthy. We'll see who the soft team is when we are at full strength.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#64 » by blumatic » Tue Jan 8, 2013 7:50 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:Soft is an extremely poor use of words.

Tyson
Amare
Melo
Sheed
KT
Shump
JR
Felton
Kidd
Camby

I dont see a single person in that group that is soft. We are still undermanned and not healthy. We'll see who the soft team is when we are at full strength.


Im using soft differently. There is a button some teams have the ability to press to allow the Knicks to unravel. I think this team is tough but we let these teams impose their will on us.

I have seen them win a game like this yet. Until they win a few, I cant say they are mentally tough as a team.

I still have hope. Im not delcaring out goals unattainable now. I didnt say that they dont show effort. But man they allow teams to get under their skin.

I though the Knicks did a good job by not really going after the refs. But it just looked bad last night and we've seen that a few times this year.
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Re: Until further notice The Knicks are soft. 

Post#65 » by UrbanLegend » Tue Jan 8, 2013 10:03 pm

Any cry-mella lead team will always be soft. Weren't Knick fans crucifying the crymella after he shoved Wilson Chandler or something? And now the crymella is the savoir? Hardly...

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