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Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest?

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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#81 » by Fury » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:49 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Fury wrote:Trade is a toss up to me, but Steve Novak is a momentum shifter. Dude hits a 3 and the team goes nuts.

and opposing coaches too, alot of times they call a time out when he hits one.

which is what? Twice a game or so?

is that really worth the horrible defense and rebounding that he also brings the team?


Novak is like a gamebreaker. I really don't think his negative on D outweighs his positives on the offensive end.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#82 » by taj2133 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:51 pm

artest is ticking time bomb one more fight or hard foul he is out of league for good and he mentally unstable human being his trade foul is low that lakers would love that trade they won't have to use there amnesty on him.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#83 » by Thugger HBC » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:53 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Fury wrote:Trade is a toss up to me, but Steve Novak is a momentum shifter. Dude hits a 3 and the team goes nuts.

and opposing coaches too, alot of times they call a time out when he hits one.

which is what? Twice a game or so?

is that really worth the horrible defense and rebounding that he also brings the team?

Sure it is, my complaints on Novak is he plays too many minutes.

He can do the same damage in less.

I hope you dont think Artest has been playing great defense this season, it's been a while since he won that award.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#84 » by Fury » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:55 pm

Chemistry matters too. The guys love Novak, especially Smith.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#85 » by Greenie » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:58 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:I think artest is being overrated honestly.

Trading away our best 3 point shooter and one of our few legit defenders doesn't make much sense.

The Lakers have been getting lit up all year, what has Artest done about that?

so I guess Dwight Howard and Kobe are bad defenders as well.


Artest defends, can shoot the 3, can drive and finish, and as states is one of the strongest players in the league. He adds more championship experience and toughness.

what does Novak do outside of space the floor and collect 1 rebound every 12 minutes. We could sign Kapono to fill the same roll and Novak and Brewer will both be losing minutes soon anyways.
and brewers defense has been anything but legit for us. He's not bad, but def not what I was expecting and definatly not on artsts level.

Wow

Artest is not the defender he used to be. Neither is Kobe. Howard has regressed in that area as well(could be due to injury). Think about it for yourself. If Artest, Kobe and Dwight are all good defenders then why is the Lakers defense so bad? That's 3/5ths of their starting lineup.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#86 » by Knicker23 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:00 pm

If Amare/Felton can help him get 7 ish shots off each game, i'd like him a lot more.... But he's often way too little of a factor nowadays... He benefits from momentum and ball movement, like Fields...but can't be a catalyst himself for that, so his play is out of his hands.

Sure he spreads the floor, and if left open can hit the J... but when the best thing about him after most games is "he kept a defender honest" he isn't bringing much.....

He's a bench player, who is what he is.. Great for what he is.. But if opportunity came to get someone who isn't really dependent on others who has a little more diversity to their game, i'd check it out.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#87 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:01 pm

greenhughes wrote:[Wow

Artest is not the defender he used to be. Neither is Kobe. Howard has regressed in that area as well(could be due to injury). Think about it for yourself. If Artest, Kobe and Dwight are all good defenders then why is the Lakers defense so bad? That's 3/5ths of their starting lineup.

Artest is still an above-average defender. I'd rather have him guard Lebron than anybody else on our roster, aside from maybe Brewer.

And let's not start with the whole notion that Melo can guard Lebron. Lebron can guard Melo, but that didn't stop the Heat from getting Battier.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#88 » by Thugger HBC » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:05 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
greenhughes wrote:[Wow

Artest is not the defender he used to be. Neither is Kobe. Howard has regressed in that area as well(could be due to injury). Think about it for yourself. If Artest, Kobe and Dwight are all good defenders then why is the Lakers defense so bad? That's 3/5ths of their starting lineup.

Artest is still an above-average defender. I'd rather have him guard Lebron than anybody else on our roster, aside from maybe Brewer.

And let's not start with the whole notion that Melo can guard Lebron. Lebron can guard Melo, but that didn't stop the Heat from getting Battier.

None can guard LeBron effectively, but Artest wouldn't even make Lebron work on the other end, so I see no need for comparison.

And no, Lebron doesn't guard Melo exclusively either, too much work, which is actually the primary reason why they got battier so leBron wouldn't HAVE TO guard the other team wing scorer.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#89 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:10 pm

Right... my only point is that we need our Battier. Whether or not MWP fills that need is totally up for debate.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#90 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jan 9, 2013 8:13 pm

greenhughes wrote:
Knicksfan20 wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:I think artest is being overrated honestly.

Trading away our best 3 point shooter and one of our few legit defenders doesn't make much sense.

The Lakers have been getting lit up all year, what has Artest done about that?

so I guess Dwight Howard and Kobe are bad defenders as well.


Artest defends, can shoot the 3, can drive and finish, and as states is one of the strongest players in the league. He adds more championship experience and toughness.

what does Novak do outside of space the floor and collect 1 rebound every 12 minutes. We could sign Kapono to fill the same roll and Novak and Brewer will both be losing minutes soon anyways.
and brewers defense has been anything but legit for us. He's not bad, but def not what I was expecting and definatly not on artsts level.

Wow

Artest is not the defender he used to be. Neither is Kobe. Howard has regressed in that area as well(could be due to injury). Think about it for yourself. If Artest, Kobe and Dwight are all good defenders then why is the Lakers defense so bad? That's 3/5ths of their starting lineup.

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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#91 » by Knicksfan20 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:02 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
greenhughes wrote:[Wow

Artest is not the defender he used to be. Neither is Kobe. Howard has regressed in that area as well(could be due to injury). Think about it for yourself. If Artest, Kobe and Dwight are all good defenders then why is the Lakers defense so bad? That's 3/5ths of their starting lineup.

Artest is still an above-average defender. I'd rather have him guard Lebron than anybody else on our roster, aside from maybe Brewer.

And let's not start with the whole notion that Melo can guard Lebron. Lebron can guard Melo, but that didn't stop the Heat from getting Battier.

None can guard LeBron effectively, but Artest wouldn't even make Lebron work on the other end, so I see no need for comparison.

And no, Lebron doesn't guard Melo exclusively either, too much work, which is actually the primary reason why they got battier so leBron wouldn't HAVE TO guard the other team wing scorer.

seriously? And Novak and brewer would? Artest is not a scrub. He can still drive to the hoop and can make the open three. He would make lebron work much harder then either Novak or brewerr.


smh. I'd rather have good tough defense and a 36% three point shooter on the floor for 30 mins then a poor defensive, horrible rebounding, no scoring or passing player in Novak. His "ability to space" is overates in terms of his impact on the opposing defense.

and like I said.. This is two for one deal, if shooting is really what you care about then kapono is still a free agent. He can bring the same no defense, un athletic, no rebounding skills to the table that Novak brings.

I like Novak, but he is borderline useless on a half court team. Hr needs dantoni where he can get open in transition and have the ability to take 4-5 more shots a game.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#92 » by Vorikan » Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:46 pm

I don't think that D'Antoni would do that trade,he already have Jamison for spacing the floor,and he doesn't use him at all.

I still think that Artest is a very good defender,he did a good job the other night against Melo,he got problem when he is facing quicker guys,but great when facing guys that wanna post him,cause he is really strong.

I would also take Ebanks from the Lakers,great defender.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#93 » by GnarlesOakley » Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:48 pm

Neither team is doing that.

Novak isn't a starter. D'antoni might be a mediocre coach whose teams play horrible defense but he's not a cartoon character whose only aim is to shoot 3's. Artest is actually an ideal D'antoni player, Pringles is obsessed with guys who can play every position and while Artest might not be a great shooter he actually enjoys chucking when he gets to do in that system. Even more than chucking 3's, D'antoni likes mixing up matchups and losing Artest would take a lot out of that.

Artest is a better player than Novak, but at this point he's more of a jack of all trades than some sort of Lebron stopper some of you are claiming he is. He's still an intelligent defender but he's far too slow to be of any use against Lebron at this point. Not to mention he's a ticking time bomb who, if brought in to play goon, is likely to cross the line and do something stupid.

And you are also underestimating how important 3's are for the Knicks. For all the D'antoni jokes, the Knicks actually take more 3 point shots this year than last; last year we averaged 23 3 point attempts per game (2nd in the league behind Orlando's 27), this year it's a league high 29, which is 4 more attempts per game than D'antoni's Lakers. Finding open shots is very important for this team, and as one dimensional as Novak is, he plays a very big role.

If all D'antoni wants is more spot up shooters, why doesn't he do exactly what you are proposing the Knicks do and sign Kapono? If he's as good as Novak, why would the Lakers bother trading Artest for Novak when they can sign Kapono? And who would the Knicks cut to sign Kapono anyway?
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#94 » by Thugger HBC » Wed Jan 9, 2013 11:00 pm

GnarlesOakley wrote:Neither team is doing that.

Novak isn't a starter. D'antoni might be a mediocre coach whose teams play horrible defense but he's not a cartoon character whose only aim is to shoot 3's. Artest is actually an ideal D'antoni player, Pringles is obsessed with guys who can play every position and while Artest might not be a great shooter he actually enjoys chucking when he gets to do in that system. Even more than chucking 3's, D'antoni likes mixing up matchups and losing Artest would take a lot out of that.

Artest is a better player than Novak, but at this point he's more of a jack of all trades than some sort of Lebron stopper some of you are claiming he is. He's still an intelligent defender but he's far too slow to be of any use against Lebron at this point. Not to mention he's a ticking time bomb who, if brought in to play goon, is likely to cross the line and do something stupid.

And you are also underestimating how important 3's are for the Knicks. For all the D'antoni jokes, the Knicks actually take more 3 point shots this year than last; last year we averaged 23 3 point attempts per game (2nd in the league behind Orlando's 27), this year it's a league high 29, which is 4 more attempts per game than D'antoni's Lakers. Finding open shots is very important for this team, and as one dimensional as Novak is, he plays a very big role.

If all D'antoni wants is more spot up shooters, why doesn't he do exactly what you are proposing the Knicks do and sign Kapono? If he's as good as Novak, why would the Lakers bother trading Artest for Novak when they can sign Kapono? And who would the Knicks cut to sign Kapono anyway?

Excellent post, this should end all debate.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#95 » by Little Italia » Wed Jan 9, 2013 11:17 pm

Artest and Shumpert playing D for the Knicks? I love it.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#96 » by Knicksfan20 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:22 am

GnarlesOakley wrote:Neither team is doing that.

Novak isn't a starter. D'antoni might be a mediocre coach whose teams play horrible defense but he's not a cartoon character whose only aim is to shoot 3's. Artest is actually an ideal D'antoni player, Pringles is obsessed with guys who can play every position and while Artest might not be a great shooter he actually enjoys chucking when he gets to do in that system. Even more than chucking 3's, D'antoni likes mixing up matchups and losing Artest would take a lot out of that.

Artest is a better player than Novak, but at this point he's more of a jack of all trades than some sort of Lebron stopper some of you are claiming he is. He's still an intelligent defender but he's far too slow to be of any use against Lebron at this point. Not to mention he's a ticking time bomb who, if brought in to play goon, is likely to cross the line and do something stupid.

And you are also underestimating how important 3's are for the Knicks. For all the D'antoni jokes, the Knicks actually take more 3 point shots this year than last; last year we averaged 23 3 point attempts per game (2nd in the league behind Orlando's 27), this year it's a league high 29, which is 4 more attempts per game than D'antoni's Lakers. Finding open shots is very important for this team, and as one dimensional as Novak is, he plays a very big role.

If all D'antoni wants is more spot up shooters, why doesn't he do exactly what you are proposing the Knicks do and sign Kapono? If he's as good as Novak, why would the Lakers bother trading Artest for Novak when they can sign Kapono? And who would the Knicks cut to sign Kapono anyway?



Agree with paragraph one. Except Brewer could be the starter, and i actually think Novak would be better starting for us instead of brewer with the camby tyson line up.

Nobody called him a Lebron stopper. But physically, he is one of the only players in the league who can guard Lebron and can match his strength. Lebron is arguably the best player in the league. Your not just going to stop him. But if you can slow him down a little bit, then you take it. Somone like Artest can get in his head and he can play him physical.

Threes are only important because we are undermanned and are lacking play makers. We went the first 30 or w.e games without Amare and Shumpert. Two guys who can score inside and get to the basket. Now we are missing Sheed, who can score in the post as well as Felton who is our only penetrating PG. He is our best playmaker and now again we have to rely on jump shooting. Plus you have to add that we have 2 players on the team who's only offense come from 3 point attempts (Novak and Kidd) Its not good that we take that many threes. You replace Novak with Artest, this team becomes MUUUUUUCH better. He still spaces the floor, he can actually take the ball to the basket and is a much much much better rebounder. He may not be a lock down defender any more, but he is stil a VERY GOOD defender. He has a high IQ when it comes to defense, he is good on the perimeter as well as inside. He also is one of the best at getting steals still, which will make us an even better team at creating turnovers.

Novak is better then Kapono, i would only suggest Kapono for certain situations and be the 15th man on the bench. Novak is great for Dantoni's system because he encourages quick shots and scoring in transition. Novak is at his best taking threes in transition.

I'm not saying the Lakers will say yes to this, but its also not that far out of an idea. Lakers have a short bench and lack depth. Gaining 2 rotation players for one could interest them and you know Dantoni would love to have Novak back (Not like Brewer is a scrub either). I also mentioned i would add a first rounder if needed. If im the knicks, i do everything in my power to try to get one of Artest/Marion/Prince/Wilson Chandler. We need that type of forward on this team. I know WC has been injured and hasnt been good in Denver. He may be a cheap option and id rather have him then Novak.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#97 » by ORANGEandBLUE » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:35 am

Another possible destination is Denver, who could badly use outside shooting. Would they send us Corey Brewer (like Ronnie but can actually shoot) for Novak? What about Wilson?
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#98 » by Knicksfan20 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:40 am

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:Another possible destination is Denver, who could badly use outside shooting. Would they send us Corey Brewer (like Ronnie but can actually shoot) for Novak? What about Wilson?


I would like Brewer. But out of the two, i would prefer Wilson. Wilson can play and can guard 3 positions (Sometimes 4 pending on the opponent) Not that i think Wilson can lock down Lebron, but he is big enough and a good enough defender to slow him down. Wilson is also a VERY good off ball defender(I use to watch him a lot on defense, he is very aware of his surroundings and think its something underated about his game). He would be perfect for this team and Woodson would love him.

He has been injured though and has barely played for Denver. I would love Him back though, but i still take Artest over Chandler. But i definatly would prefer Chandler over Novak. Maybe Novak and our first would interest them, but they are Forward heavy already.

Shawn Marion or Tayshaun Prince would be great targets too although i dont think we could get them. But Detroit is in rebuild mode and Mavs could be heading that way. Det might not want to pay Prince.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#99 » by KnicksScholar24 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:50 am

Unnecessary trade.

While I MWP's defensive would be a huge upgrade to Novak's, Novak ability to draw a defender helps spread the court for NY.

Also, Anthony at SF is better long term for NY than Anthony at PF. The Knicks needs a true PF who can rebound. NY has a lot of players who need minutes at the 4, so having a guy that's going to play 35+ MPG at that position isn't needed.

If World Peace wants to sign with NY after his contract is up then that would be okay.
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Re: Think Dantoni wants Novak? Novak+Brew for Artest? 

Post#100 » by Knicksfan20 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:57 am

KnicksScholar24 wrote:Unnecessary trade.

While I MWP's defensive would be a huge upgrade to Novak's, Novak ability to draw a defender helps spread the court for NY.

Also, Anthony at SF is better long term for NY than Anthony at PF. The Knicks needs a true PF who can rebound. NY has a lot of players who need minutes at the 4, so having a guy that's going to play 35+ MPG at that position isn't needed.

If World Peace wants to sign with NY after his contract is up then that would be okay.


But do you honestly think its worth having the worse defender and rebounder in the league to play 25 mpg? I personally like Novak and would llike to see him in the 10-15 mpg range. If he catches fire early, then ride the lightning. If he cant get a shot up or misses 2, then sit him. Novak in 25mpg only averages 2 rebounds a game. He isnt able to box anybody out and he gets beat far to often. His super spacing just isnt worth all of that.

Lets not act like a 36% 3pt shooter isnt going to space teh floor. Artest is making over 2 threes a game this year. Artest will still spread the floor for melo, and then you get a much better defender as well as a rebounder. Artest is also the better offensive player as well.

I dont think the Lakers would do the trade, but if your the Knicks....I think its a no brainer. But some do see to disagree. Everyone has their point of views, i just think Novak hurts us was more then helps us.

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