Woj: Knicks considering adding Kenyon Martin

Post #161 » by **Brooklyn_Yards** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:35 pm

BasicBall wrote:They can trade Brewer and James White too....do a 2 for 1 trade and have an open roster spot and bring in Kenyon

Cope and White for PJ tucker or Telfair then add Kmart

NewEra · Post #162 » by **NewEra** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:43 pm

Why is waiving White for Kenyon even in question? James White offers us nothing.

Kurt has had a few good stretches for us whenever he's gotten minutes.

We have Brewer, Shump, and Cope. Why do we need White again?

GoNYK1288 · Post #163 » by **GoNYK1288** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:45 pm

Rasho Brezec wrote:They're not cutting Kurt, because they're smart. They know a veteran is more useful than a career journeyman who can do nothing but dunk and a 28-year old rookie who played in Belgium.

Since when is K-Mart not a vet? Since when is Kurt not a career journeyman?

ORANGEandBLUE · Post #164 » by **ORANGEandBLUE** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:47 pm

GoNYK1288 wrote:Since when is K-Mart not a vet? Since when is Kurt not a career journeyman?

KT, in his prime, and as recently as 2 years ago, was literally 500,000 x better than James White.

ORANGEandBLUE · Post #165 » by **ORANGEandBLUE** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:50 pm

seren wrote:Honestly, I don't get it. We started great with small ball. Fact is you need the small ball to match up the Heat. We are already pretty crowded on the frontcourt. Why bring another guy?

I think K-Mart can defend 3's... he guarded Rudy Gay a lot in last year's playoffs. I'm not sure how his J is these days, but he's got a decent handle and he looks somewhat comfortable on the perimeter.

I don't understand how him and Sheed are alternatives. K-Mart's game is completely different... I see him more as a replacement for Brewer than for Sheed.

Starksfor3 · Post #166 » by **Starksfor3** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:50 pm

Cutting KT and adding Kenyon Martin would keep the roster balance. But I'm thinking cutting White is probably the better idea.

Post #167 » by **moocow007** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 2:51 pm

GoNYK1288 wrote:
Rasho Brezec wrote:They're not cutting Kurt, because they're smart. They know a veteran is more useful than a career journeyman who can do nothing but dunk and a 28-year old rookie who played in Belgium.

Since when is K-Mart not a vet? Since when is Kurt not a career journeyman?

Rasho is talking about White, not Thomas.

Post #168 » by **moocow007** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:00 pm

At this point and in the big picture, none of the 3 (KT, White or Copeland) are keepers. Keeping Thomas makes sense from a veteran presence in the lockerroom POV but what he brings basically would be replaced by Martin. Keeping Copeland makes some sense from an offensive standpoint since he's probably more useful than either Thomas or White offensively but Martin has averaged 13ppg for his career so he's also able to score and can shoot midrange shots as well. Keeping White makes sense since White is the only one of the three that positionally couldn't be covered by Martin so from a roster balance standpoint White wins.

But ultimately, if Martin doesn't work out and they need to dump him, it is not too too difficult to find replacements for any of the above three guys (Mo Evans is still available to replace Whites role, Josh Howard is still available to replace Copelands role, and there a plethora of old veteran 3rd/4th PF/Cs that can be signed as worse case insurance for Thomas)...so there really shouldn't be any sense of dread or fear that we'd be missing out on something by cutting someone to bring Martin in. Best case scenario Martin's impact would greatly outweigh any projected from the 3. Worst case scenario...what exactly would we be missing? They can all be replaced.

Johnny Hoops · Post #169 » by **Johnny Hoops** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:21 pm

I'm 100% in favor of adding K-Mart.

Not sure if we can still do this given deadline for waiving guys -- not sure how that all works out.

KMart still showed he had some game last year with the Clips -- he still has the ability to move his feet and can defend some small forwards / most power forwards.

I haven't been thrilled with the groups they've surrounded Stat with since his return -- was hoping Sheed would be a good fit with Amare but sounds like his foot is shot.

I'd view KMart as very nice fit next to Amare in a smaller line-up scenario because KMart can defend the tougher match-up for Amare and can also stay active on the glass in defenses over-load on Amare.

Stat
Kmart
Novak
JR
Prigs/Shump

Would be nice grouping....

Post #170 » by **NoLayupRule** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:40 pm

well everyone seems to agree that KT, White and Copeland and the ones most expendable

IMO here is why each is preferable and why, eventually, KT is the one to go if we do add anyone

Copeland has shown the most to us when given time and opportunity. Yes his D and rebounding are bad but no worse than Novak really and he can score in bunches and in many ways. Hes a solid offensive weapon to have, can play they 3 or 4 and has no ego issues. Hes the best prospect to develop.

White has shown the least in the mins and opportunities hes been given but at times hes shown an ability to step in and defend quicker players. That and his ability to score when on make him marginally useful but eventually replaceable.

Thomas is a total pro and can be depended on to step in a make the most of his mins. However hes 40 and looks every year of it. Hes been too slow to defend most players and his jumper has been poor. He also looks, more than anyone else on the team, like a guy playing out the clock on his career.

IMO Thomas is the most expendable, especially if we are adding a defensive 4, and after him White.

remarcableee · Post #171 » by **remarcableee** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:57 pm

I like the addition if we can sign him KENYON i always like his grittiness he showed back in his NETS days and NUGGETS days. we already have a bad boy in Wallace nd now Melo :lol:

. I like the bad boy mentally especially what happened to us vs KG. Im so for it.

But who to cut? i would say Thomas. since we are just adding practically a younger Kurt Thomas in Kenyon.

lets go knicks. hopefully we have him on the 24th. give KG a message.

Knicksfan20 · Post #172 » by **Knicksfan20** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:54 pm

If we trade Novak and brewer for artest we wouldn't have to cut any body.

Post #173 » by **Thugger HBC** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:56 pm

Knicksfan20 wrote:If we trade Novak and brewer for artest we wouldn't have to cut any body.

Haven't heard the Lakers were trying to move him.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2

Post #174 » by **NoLayupRule** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:00 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:
Knicksfan20 wrote:If we trade Novak and brewer for artest we wouldn't have to cut any body.

Haven't heard the Lakers were trying to move him.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2

there is no rumor of any such thing and in fact its a terrible trade for us

when Novak is on the floor hes a must cover. that hasnt been effective without a penetrating PG but when Felton gets back and is a threat again novak will again start being effective

even if its opening lanes

and who in their right mind would want to move Brewer when he is one of the best defenders in the league and here for basically free

HarthorneWingo · Post #175 » by **HarthorneWingo** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 6:46 pm

I changed my mind. I think we need more PG help right now. Bring in Delonte.

ORANGEandBLUE · Post #176 » by **ORANGEandBLUE** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:07 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:there is no rumor of any such thing and in fact its a terrible trade for us

when Novak is on the floor hes a must cover. that hasnt been effective without a penetrating PG but when Felton gets back and is a threat again novak will again start being effective

even if its opening lanes

and who in their right mind would want to move Brewer when he is one of the best defenders in the league and here for basically free

The basic idea is that we need MWP's defense and rebounding more than we need Novak's shooting, and that Brewer isn't living up to his reputation on D. It's a valid argument... I've been pretty nervous watching us on D in the Portland and Boston games. I mean we are relying on some absolutely super-human leaping from JR just to complete the basic task of securing defensive rebounds.

I actually like Brewer, which is why I'd wait on moving Novak until the deadline, in hopes that Brewer will get back to early-season form.

ORANGEandBLUE · Post #177 » by **ORANGEandBLUE** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:10 pm

But yeah... it's a moot point because Lakers are not sending us a superior player on a shorter contract for an inferior player on a longer contract.

Post #178 » by **Thugger HBC** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:17 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
Knicksfan20 wrote:If we trade Novak and brewer for artest we wouldn't have to cut any body.

Haven't heard the Lakers were trying to move him.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Xparent SkyBlue Tapatalk 2

there is no rumor of any such thing and in fact its a terrible trade for us

when Novak is on the floor hes a must cover. that hasnt been effective without a penetrating PG but when Felton gets back and is a threat again novak will again start being effective

even if its opening lanes

and who in their right mind would want to move Brewer when he is one of the best defenders in the league and here for basically free

It's lateral, you gain and lose at the same time, but there is no rumor of such, so i dont think it would happen.

This is the equivalent of the Nash with trading Shumpert deal in the offseason.

Novak has been up and down, but overall 45% is top 5, very hard to consider moving that aspect.

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:The basic idea is that we need MWP's defense and rebounding more than we need Novak's shooting, and that Brewer isn't living up to his reputation on D. It's a valid argument... I've been pretty nervous watching us on D in the Portland and Boston games. I mean we are relying on some absolutely super-human leaping from JR just to complete the basic task of securing defensive rebounds.

I actually like Brewer, which is why I'd wait on moving Novak until the deadline, in hopes that Brewer will get back to early-season form.

brewer came back with no time loss from a knee injury which required surgery, and he looked real good early on.

Maybe he needs some rest? Keep in mind he is Shumps replacement, once he gets into the flow, brewer will be much better.

Not even getting the major love for Artest, he's playing OK, not that much better than Brewer overall.

Tron Carter · Post #179 » by **Tron Carter** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:21 pm

NoLayupRule wrote:well everyone seems to agree that KT, White and Copeland and the ones most expendable

IMO here is why each is preferable and why, eventually, KT is the one to go if we do add anyone

Copeland has shown the most to us when given time and opportunity. Yes his D and rebounding are bad but no worse than Novak really and he can score in bunches and in many ways. Hes a solid offensive weapon to have, can play they 3 or 4 and has no ego issues. Hes the best prospect to develop.

White has shown the least in the mins and opportunities hes been given but at times hes shown an ability to step in and defend quicker players. That and his ability to score when on make him marginally useful but eventually replaceable.

Thomas is a total pro and can be depended on to step in a make the most of his mins. However hes 40 and looks every year of it. Hes been too slow to defend most players and his jumper has been poor. He also looks, more than anyone else on the team, like a guy playing out the clock on his career.

IMO Thomas is the most expendable, especially if we are adding a defensive 4, and after him White.

I feel the same way... I just feel the emotional ties to Kurt will be too much to over come for our FO...

DE FENSE · Post #180 » by **DE FENSE** » Wed Jan 9, 2013 7:22 pm

God I hate that Artest trade that Knicksfan20 keeps trying to sell. Its straight trash.

But back on topic, IMO it would be worth cutting White just to get Kenyon in on a 10 day to have a look and see how he fits in with all his old teammates. Something tells me he'd stay on...