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OT: The flu

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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#21 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:48 am

ibraheim718 wrote:Here Wingo you can browse around my herbalists web page... he posts tons of scientific studies backing any advice he gives.

http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1688544

A lot of quacks on there though so I would just stick to his sub-forum.



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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#22 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:48 am

boomann21 wrote:If it gets worse just make you a Hottie Tottie with some Jack Danlies Whiskey. Warm that up real good and drink it up and jump up under your biggest blanket.



Old Albanian remedy. Small glass of whiskey, honey and lemon.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#23 » by Stannis » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:58 am

HawthorneWingo wrote:
boomann21 wrote:If it gets worse just make you a Hottie Tottie with some Jack Danlies Whiskey. Warm that up real good and drink it up and jump up under your biggest blanket.



Old Albanian remedy. Small glass of whiskey, honey and lemon.

lmao, Albanians are too alike. I usually drink like 5 cups of tea with honey and lemon during my one day of good sleep then I am good to go.

I have not gone to the doctors since I was like 12 years old, except for dental work. I need to pick up some health insurance I after finish college. I doubt I will hold up like this for long.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#24 » by aggo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:15 am

Sleep and fluids


Sleep and fluids
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#25 » by ibraheim718 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:16 am

Shpati21 wrote:
HawthorneWingo wrote:
boomann21 wrote:If it gets worse just make you a Hottie Tottie with some Jack Danlies Whiskey. Warm that up real good and drink it up and jump up under your biggest blanket.



Old Albanian remedy. Small glass of whiskey, honey and lemon.

lmao, Albanians are too alike. I usually drink like 5 cups of tea with honey and lemon during my one day of good sleep then I am good to go.

I have not gone to the doctors since I was like 12 years old, except for dental work. I need to pick up some health insurance I after finish college. I doubt I will hold up like this for long.


Believe or not.. Honey has anti-microbial peoperties... Lemon is good for the liver and raises the stomach acid and I guess the whiskey raises the body temperature.

Out here in New Mexico the remedy that my Mom who is from here and her family uses is the same concoction except with an herb that grows locally around here called Osha... they swear by it. I use the herbal remedy I posted on page 1 but if I just want something soothing I'll drink a hot toddy or have my Mom prepare a batch of Osha for me.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#26 » by br7knicks » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:50 am

I use Vita-C from Shaklee, which is all natural vitamins.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#27 » by R-S-M » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:24 pm

take some alka seltzer for flu. I took some last night and I am feeling better this morning.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#28 » by truth serum » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:34 pm

21shumpshumpst wrote:
HawthorneWingo wrote:
21shumpshumpst wrote:You want a suggestion? How about you stop being cheap and go to the doctor and get some real medicine you hippie. Its the damn flu that over the counter crap is not going to cut it.



You pussy. :wink: I've never gone to the doctor for the flu.


That's cuz you are cheap and prob have crap insurance. Get a real flu on and not this pussy cold you have. 100 degree temperature and you are crying like a bitch.



You're one of the crappiest people ever.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#29 » by MaseInYourFace » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:55 pm

HawthorneWingo wrote:Anybody else here suffering from the flu? I got a temp of 100.8, aches all over, don't wanna eat. I'm taking Zicam and Alleve for symptoms and sleeping a lot. Any suggestions?


Lots of liquids and vitamins. Lots of rest. All you can do. Just wait it out and hope your immune system is strong enough.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#30 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:23 pm

21shumpshumpst wrote:
HawthorneWingo wrote:
21shumpshumpst wrote:You want a suggestion? How about you stop being cheap and go to the doctor and get some real medicine you hippie. Its the damn flu that over the counter crap is not going to cut it.



You pussy. :wink: I've never gone to the doctor for the flu.


That's cuz you are cheap and prob have crap insurance. Get a real flu on and not this pussy cold you have. 100 degree temperature and you are crying like a bitch.



:lol:

Tell me shumpshump, what's it like to be known as the biggest douche bag on this forum?
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#31 » by E86 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:46 pm

You don't take vitamins when your fever is that high because they won't be effective. Vitamins are co-enzymes, and enzymes don't function well during high body temperatures. Taking vitamins at this point just makes it harder on yourself because your body has to work to get rid of the vitamins and fight the flu at the same time. Keep taking allieve until your fever breaks, and just chill.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#32 » by 21shumpshumpst » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:13 pm

HawthorneWingo wrote:
21shumpshumpst wrote:
HawthorneWingo wrote:

You pussy. :wink: I've never gone to the doctor for the flu.


That's cuz you are cheap and prob have crap insurance. Get a real flu on and not this pussy cold you have. 100 degree temperature and you are crying like a bitch.



:lol:

Tell me shumpshump, what's it like to be known as the biggest douche bag on this forum?

Earn enough to get some decent insurance then I'll tell you.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#33 » by 21shumpshumpst » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:14 pm

E86 wrote:You don't take vitamins when your fever is that high because they won't be effective. Vitamins are co-enzymes, and enzymes don't function well during high body temperatures. Taking vitamins at this point just makes it harder on yourself because your body has to work to get rid of the vitamins and fight the flu at the same time. Keep taking allieve until your fever breaks, and just chill.

Stop using science to back up your statements. The mumbo jumbo Ibraheim is spewing is right and you are wrong with your science. FOH.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#34 » by Boyz of 4d » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:17 pm

Hello all;

Long time lurker as I usually don't have much to add to the conversation, however in this situation I may be able to shed some advice. My background is I am a cardiologist in the New England Area (NY born and raised, but trained in NE unfortunately...).

Even though I'm a cardiologist I see a fair amount of flu and these would be my recommendations (obviously you are free to do what you want, but this is the advice I give my family and friends).

1. Flu shot - Everyone should get it
- There are a few issues with the shot. It does not cover all strains of flu, but only the most common serotypes, so it is true that you may still get the flu, but the thought behind it is that you are protected and against the majority of serotypes (about 70% this year).
- It is true young people may not be affected or infected by the flu as much as the elderly, however bad cases of the flu can be extremely devestating. I have seen a fair number of flu pneumonias leading to respiratory distress, intubation, and even death (in people < 40, very bad outcomes in the pregnant especially).

2. What to do when you get the flu
- If you are within the first 48-72 hours of symptoms -- Go to a hospital and get a course of Tamiflu. This *may* help shorten the course of the flu (research is mixed about this), but what it has been shown to do is decrease the potential bad complicatoins from the flu. Normally symptoms will last anywhere between 7-14 days, but eveyrone varies
- If you are > 48-72 hours there is no proven benefit of taking Tamiflu. Some still recommend taking it, especially if you have a complication, however there is no research to back this recommendation. At this point it is all supportive care; ie fluids, anti-pyretics (tylenol), anti-inflammatories (high dose tylenol, ibuprofen, naproxen, etc), and symptomatic relief (pseudophedrine)

I know a lot of people are on board with vitamins and the like but there are a few things to be cautious about. There has been no large scale studies to show benefit of taking high dose vitamins in terms of preventing the flu or in terms of curtailing the symptoms especially after 48 hours. People will site small scale studies and the like, but I'd recommend taking a look at the actual study, not just the end point. Also, remember all vitamin recommendations/herbal things are not FDA approved, and as a result have not gone through the vigorous testing that medications have (the average medication goes thru 10 years of teating before hitting the market).

As I said eat the beginning of this post, I'm just giving my opinions, not trying to initiate a flame war. If anyone else has questions feel free to post them here or PM me. Thanks
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#35 » by 21shumpshumpst » Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:35 pm

Boyz of 4d wrote:Hello all;

Long time lurker as I usually don't have much to add to the conversation, however in this situation I may be able to shed some advice. My background is I am a cardiologist in the New England Area (NY born and raised, but trained in NE unfortunately...).

Even though I'm a cardiologist I see a fair amount of flu and these would be my recommendations (obviously you are free to do what you want, but this is the advice I give my family and friends).

1. Flu shot - Everyone should get it
- There are a few issues with the shot. It does not cover all strains of flu, but only the most common serotypes, so it is true that you may still get the flu, but the thought behind it is that you are protected and against the majority of serotypes (about 70% this year).
- It is true young people may not be affected or infected by the flu as much as the elderly, however bad cases of the flu can be extremely devestating. I have seen a fair number of flu pneumonias leading to respiratory distress, intubation, and even death (in people < 40, very bad outcomes in the pregnant especially).

2. What to do when you get the flu
- If you are within the first 48-72 hours of symptoms -- Go to a hospital and get a course of Tamiflu. This *may* help shorten the course of the flu (research is mixed about this), but what it has been shown to do is decrease the potential bad complicatoins from the flu. Normally symptoms will last anywhere between 7-14 days, but eveyrone varies
- If you are > 48-72 hours there is no proven benefit of taking Tamiflu. Some still recommend taking it, especially if you have a complication, however there is no research to back this recommendation. At this point it is all supportive care; ie fluids, anti-pyretics (tylenol), anti-inflammatories (high dose tylenol, ibuprofen, naproxen, etc), and symptomatic relief (pseudophedrine)

I know a lot of people are on board with vitamins and the like but there are a few things to be cautious about. There has been no large scale studies to show benefit of taking high dose vitamins in terms of preventing the flu or in terms of curtailing the symptoms especially after 48 hours. People will site small scale studies and the like, but I'd recommend taking a look at the actual study, not just the end point. Also, remember all vitamin recommendations/herbal things are not FDA approved, and as a result have not gone through the vigorous testing that medications have (the average medication goes thru 10 years of teating before hitting the market).

As I said eat the beginning of this post, I'm just giving my opinions, not trying to initiate a flame war. If anyone else has questions feel free to post them here or PM me. Thanks

Cliffnotes :lol Ibraheim. :lol:

Thank you good doctor.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#36 » by Tron Carter » Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:28 pm

Ibraheim needs to be get in touch with Chandler.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#37 » by ibraheim718 » Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:49 pm

I just passed on all of my advice from this man... the only man I trust when it comes to the truth in medicine.

Sorry for the long post.

I have read Barrett's information for years, and I cannot stand him. In my opinion he is one of the least credible people in the world. Barrett specifically looks for negative information on alternative medicines without even taking in to account as to whether the research was done properly or interpreted properly. And I have yet to see him post any research backing alternatives. This is very misleading. But he makes a living on doing interviews bashing alternative medicines. And even though I have heard over and over that he does not sell anything I have seen publications against alternative medicines sold on the Quackwatch site. If he wants to have any credibility then he should present unbiased information presenting both the good and the bad of alternatives. The fact that he only presents anything negative he can find shows that he has a particular agenda that he is willing to do anything to fulfill.

There is also a lot of quackery in mainstream medicine that he has failed to mention. For example the fact that AIDS and hepatitis testing cannot prove the presence of a virus (antibody testing), nor viral activity (PCR, viral load). The only thing these tests are good for is scaring people in to taking drugs for a condition that may or may not work, and can cause some serious side effects including AIDS, which is not a disease but rather a syndrome. Or the fact that dextromethorphan was found to be no better than a placebo, the first time back in 1969 when the FDA was Court ordered to remove it from the market along with 709 other drugs that the FDA has left on the market despite the fact that they were found to dangerous or worthless. Or the fact that sleeping aids do not work. The drug companies even mention this fact in their ads. They all say their drugs are "non-narcotic". Well the medical definition of narcotic is a sleep inducing agent. Or the fact that they keep pushing antacids and acid blockers for heartburn when the primary cause of heartburn is a lack of stomach acid. Or the fact that they keep telling people that high cholesterol causes heart disease, which was disproven decades ago. And worse they prescribe statins without telling people that these drugs increase the risk of heart failure. Or the fact that they fail to tell patients given Coumadin (Warfarin)that the drug may decrease their risk of thrombic stroke, but it will greatly increase their risk of hemorrhagic stroke. Or the fact that the blood thinner Heparin can cause white blood clots (white thrombus syndrome)that are just as deadly as red blood clots. Or the fact that most chemo drugs have less than a 3% success rate. If they factor in recoccurances after the 5 year period, placebo effect, use of alternatives in conjunction, and changes in diet/lifestyle then this success rate is more like zero. Yet alternatives like ozone, Rife, and Hoxsey with 80-99% success rates are called quackery. That is just a small list of some of the mainsteam quackery that I have never heard Barrett mention.

The reason I left mainstream medicine was the rampant corruption and quackery I personally witnessed when I worked in the field. This is not to say that quackery does not exist in alternative medicine, because it does. All of it is not quackery though, just as not all mainstream medicine is quackery. We need surgery sometimes in emergencies, but it is quackery to give AZT or its analogues to people when they have known all along that these drugs will cause AIDS even in healthy individuals. AZT was originally banned for human use in the early 60s when it was developed due to the fact that it was so deadly. And the largest study ever done on AZT, the Concorde Study, proved that AZT shortened the lives of AIDS patients. Yet it is still being used. And I don't believe in acids causing disease or the olive oil gallbladder flushes.

But I am a big advocate of ozone therapy, which has been proven over an over since it was started in 1892. And herbal therapy has more real research behind it than any pharmaceutical drug on the market. The difference is that pharmaceutical drugs routinely get approved on manipulated studies designed to make the drugs appear effective. And it has been reported for over 30 years that over 150 FDA officials own stock in the drug companies they regulate in violation of insider trading laws. So the FDA has a financial incentive to look the other way as people die or are injured from the drugs. I would call this quackery.

Most of our knowledge of herbal therapy though came from the Chinese, who have the oldest medical system in the world. They did not use manipulated animal and human studies to test the herbs, and there was no financial incentive to do any manipulation. Instead, all things were tested on thousands of human prisoners before anything was ever given to the Emperor. So they made sure what the positive and adverse effects were of all of these substances. On the other hand the drug companies start by choosing a particular animal that will likely respond positively to their drug. This is why when you read a study one study may have use a particular strain or sex of mouse, or a rabbit, monkey, goat, etc. Of course animal studies do not correlate to humans. A sheep can eat arsenic in levels that would kill a human, and chocolate can kill a dog. This is why they are very careful in choosing the animal to experiment on so the drug will appear safe and effective. Then comes the human trials. Again these get manipulated. Patients that die or do not respond are often dropped from studies to make the drugs appear safe and effective. This is a particularly common practice to get chemotherapy drugs approved. And known side effects are often not reported again to get drugs approved. For example, it was only recently that they finally admitted that NSAIDs could increase the risk of heart attack and stroke. Yet this is something that they should have known since day one, especially considering the fact that these drugs work by constricting blood vessels. Same reason that they have been known to be able to cause kidney and liver failure, even with a single recommended dose. In fact ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, Nuprin) killed 2 dozen people during clinical trials from chemical induced hepatitis. And the FDA estimates that NSAIDs kill over 16,000 people a year, primarily from internal bleeding. Of course this number is going to a lot higher in reality since many deaths are not attributed to the actual cause. Just like if a person dies from the chemotherapy or radiation therapy the cause of death is still listed as the cancer to avoid scaring the public with the truth. So this is quackery, but Barrett does not report on it. I would assume if his site is called Quackwatch and he was really out to protect the public then he would be reporting on all this conventional quackery.


You can go here... medcapsules.com and take up in debate with him if any of what I advised you feel is wrong.

Feel free to do a wikisearch on Acerola Cherry, Amla, and Andrographis if you wish... hey contact them and tell them to edit out all the evidence that Acerola cherry is rich in vitamin C because the FDA said so.. same for Amla.

Then tell them that this is information about Andrographis is wrong:
From a biomedicinal perspective, the therapeutic value of Kalmegh is due to its mechanism of action which is perhaps by enzyme induction. The plant extract exhibits antityphoid and antifungal activities. Kalmegh is also reported[citation needed] to possess antihepatotoxic, antibiotic, antimalarial, antihepatitic, antithrombogenic, antiinflammatory,[4] anti-snake venom, and antipyretic properties to mention a few, besides its general use as an immunostimulant agent.[5]


The educate yourself on the difference between "vitamins" and "herbs" or "food".

Then keep telling yourself that the FDA isn't in it for the money. :lol:
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#38 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:40 am

Thanks Ibraheim. I agree, you've got to do your own research on this stuff.
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#39 » by E86 » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:13 am

ibraheim718 wrote:I just passed on all of my advice from this man... the only man I trust when it comes to the truth in medicine.

Sorry for the long post.

I have read Barrett's information for years, and I cannot stand him. In my opinion he is one of the least credible people in the world. Barrett specifically looks for negative information on alternative medicines without even taking in to account as to whether the research was done properly or interpreted properly. And I have yet to see him post any research backing alternatives. This is very misleading. But he makes a living on doing interviews bashing alternative medicines. And even though I have heard over and over that he does not sell anything I have seen publications against alternative medicines sold on the Quackwatch site. If he wants to have any credibility then he should present unbiased information presenting both the good and the bad of alternatives. The fact that he only presents anything negative he can find shows that he has a particular agenda that he is willing to do anything to fulfill.

There is also a lot of quackery in mainstream medicine that he has failed to mention. For example the fact that AIDS and hepatitis testing cannot prove the presence of a virus (antibody testing), nor viral activity (PCR, viral load). The only thing these tests are good for is scaring people in to taking drugs for a condition that may or may not work, and can cause some serious side effects including AIDS, which is not a disease but rather a syndrome. Or the fact that dextromethorphan was found to be no better than a placebo, the first time back in 1969 when the FDA was Court ordered to remove it from the market along with 709 other drugs that the FDA has left on the market despite the fact that they were found to dangerous or worthless. Or the fact that sleeping aids do not work. The drug companies even mention this fact in their ads. They all say their drugs are "non-narcotic". Well the medical definition of narcotic is a sleep inducing agent. Or the fact that they keep pushing antacids and acid blockers for heartburn when the primary cause of heartburn is a lack of stomach acid. Or the fact that they keep telling people that high cholesterol causes heart disease, which was disproven decades ago. And worse they prescribe statins without telling people that these drugs increase the risk of heart failure. Or the fact that they fail to tell patients given Coumadin (Warfarin)that the drug may decrease their risk of thrombic stroke, but it will greatly increase their risk of hemorrhagic stroke. Or the fact that the blood thinner Heparin can cause white blood clots (white thrombus syndrome)that are just as deadly as red blood clots. Or the fact that most chemo drugs have less than a 3% success rate. If they factor in recoccurances after the 5 year period, placebo effect, use of alternatives in conjunction, and changes in diet/lifestyle then this success rate is more like zero. Yet alternatives like ozone, Rife, and Hoxsey with 80-99% success rates are called quackery. That is just a small list of some of the mainsteam quackery that I have never heard Barrett mention.

The reason I left mainstream medicine was the rampant corruption and quackery I personally witnessed when I worked in the field. This is not to say that quackery does not exist in alternative medicine, because it does. All of it is not quackery though, just as not all mainstream medicine is quackery. We need surgery sometimes in emergencies, but it is quackery to give AZT or its analogues to people when they have known all along that these drugs will cause AIDS even in healthy individuals. AZT was originally banned for human use in the early 60s when it was developed due to the fact that it was so deadly. And the largest study ever done on AZT, the Concorde Study, proved that AZT shortened the lives of AIDS patients. Yet it is still being used. And I don't believe in acids causing disease or the olive oil gallbladder flushes.

But I am a big advocate of ozone therapy, which has been proven over an over since it was started in 1892. And herbal therapy has more real research behind it than any pharmaceutical drug on the market. The difference is that pharmaceutical drugs routinely get approved on manipulated studies designed to make the drugs appear effective. And it has been reported for over 30 years that over 150 FDA officials own stock in the drug companies they regulate in violation of insider trading laws. So the FDA has a financial incentive to look the other way as people die or are injured from the drugs. I would call this quackery.

Most of our knowledge of herbal therapy though came from the Chinese, who have the oldest medical system in the world. They did not use manipulated animal and human studies to test the herbs, and there was no financial incentive to do any manipulation. Instead, all things were tested on thousands of human prisoners before anything was ever given to the Emperor. So they made sure what the positive and adverse effects were of all of these substances. On the other hand the drug companies start by choosing a particular animal that will likely respond positively to their drug. This is why when you read a study one study may have use a particular strain or sex of mouse, or a rabbit, monkey, goat, etc. Of course animal studies do not correlate to humans. A sheep can eat arsenic in levels that would kill a human, and chocolate can kill a dog. This is why they are very careful in choosing the animal to experiment on so the drug will appear safe and effective. Then comes the human trials. Again these get manipulated. Patients that die or do not respond are often dropped from studies to make the drugs appear safe and effective. This is a particularly common practice to get chemotherapy drugs approved. And known side effects are often not reported again to get drugs approved. For example, it was only recently that they finally admitted that NSAIDs could increase the risk of heart attack and stroke. Yet this is something that they should have known since day one, especially considering the fact that these drugs work by constricting blood vessels. Same reason that they have been known to be able to cause kidney and liver failure, even with a single recommended dose. In fact ibuprofen (Advil, Motrin, Nuprin) killed 2 dozen people during clinical trials from chemical induced hepatitis. And the FDA estimates that NSAIDs kill over 16,000 people a year, primarily from internal bleeding. Of course this number is going to a lot higher in reality since many deaths are not attributed to the actual cause. Just like if a person dies from the chemotherapy or radiation therapy the cause of death is still listed as the cancer to avoid scaring the public with the truth. So this is quackery, but Barrett does not report on it. I would assume if his site is called Quackwatch and he was really out to protect the public then he would be reporting on all this conventional quackery.


You can go here... medcapsules.com and take up in debate with him if any of what I advised you feel is wrong.

Feel free to do a wikisearch on Acerola Cherry, Amla, and Andrographis if you wish... hey contact them and tell them to edit out all the evidence that Acerola cherry is rich in vitamin C because the FDA said so.. same for Amla.

Then tell them that this is information about Andrographis is wrong:
From a biomedicinal perspective, the therapeutic value of Kalmegh is due to its mechanism of action which is perhaps by enzyme induction. The plant extract exhibits antityphoid and antifungal activities. Kalmegh is also reported[citation needed] to possess antihepatotoxic, antibiotic, antimalarial, antihepatitic, antithrombogenic, antiinflammatory,[4] anti-snake venom, and antipyretic properties to mention a few, besides its general use as an immunostimulant agent.[5]


The educate yourself on the difference between "vitamins" and "herbs" or "food".

Then keep telling yourself that the FDA isn't in it for the money. :lol:


Homeopathic, organic, and natural sources are very much useful in aiding the body in it's functions. If there weren't any benefits from things like grapefruit then I would never eat that crap, but there are and I eat grapefruit every morning because of it. Lot's of plants and fruits help with ionization (antioxidants/free radicals). But these types of supplemental nutrients are good in certain situations. Mostly preventative.

Vitamins are co-enzymes, so they function as helpers in biochemical transformations like when an enzyme converts certain substrates into different products. For instance, I'm taking Vitamin C right now to help deal with an achilles tendinopathy issue I have because one of the benefits of Vit C is it works with enzymes that synthesize collagen formation. The benefits of Vit C cannot be overstated, it's an amazing co-enzyme.

But, enzymes have evolved to work in a very specific temperature and ph level. In Wingo's case, with his fever, the enzymes in his body are changing shape because of the temperature. This makes it impossible for enzymes to do their catalytic functions because substrates have to fit just right into the enzyme for it to produce whatever it's product is. Once his fever reduces he will be fine to start taking vitamins again. The reason people die with high fevers is their enzymes start to denature, completely losing it shape and unable to carry out metabolic functions.

NSAID's have their complications but medicine like tylenol are the most efficient way to break a fever and get back to having your body function normally again.
Boyz of 4d
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Re: OT: The flu 

Post#40 » by Boyz of 4d » Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:23 am

And this is the reason I said to 'actually read the articles', not just blindly believe nonsense other people write. There are many false things in your above statement, but let me give you two quick examples.

1. The link you mention talks about the Concorde study showing that it shortened the lives of HIV patients. Completely incorrect, I suggest you take a look at the trial (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7908356)

Let me summarize it for you; It was a trial that used AZT in HIV patients at different stages of the disease: Either At the time of HIV diagnosis or at the time the patient converts to AIDS.

What was the outcome? It showed that EARLY implementation of AZT (prior to the diagnosis of AIDS) had no benefit in extending life. How did that change the use of AZT? It made the guidelines for it to be used only AFTER the diagnosis of AIDS. This actually would hurt pharmaceutical companies because it limits its use. Multiple papers have shown the benefit of AZT vs placebo in patient's with AIDS.

2. You mention coumadin preventing white blood clots but increasing the risk of red blood clots. This is completely true, however the risk of bleeding is much less than the odds of getting a stroke from white blood clots. If you want to see the exact numbers google CHADS2 or CHADS2vasc and it will compare the risks of dying from a stroke (white clot) vs those of dying from a bleed.

It's a shame you believe everything you read on websites. However, since you are so gullible; I recommend you check out http://www.doctoryourself.com. It explains how the cure to almost all medical issues is high dose vitamin C. I suggest you invest in it early...before everyone finds out...

:lol:

And BTW, I'm not against herbals/vitamins/supplements. Some have been shown to be beneficial, and some have been taken off the market for bad outcomes (ever hear of fenfen or ephedra?). I just wouldn't believe everything you read without actually looking at in depth. Is there a large pharmaceutical influence of medications? Most definitely. That's why you need to actually READ and UNDERSTAND the data, not just hang on to statements people say.

You don't think these herbalists make a killing on selling this stuff? Get real, 33.9 BILLION dollars were used last year in America on 'alternative' treatments.

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