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OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby AndroidMan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:08 pm

yaboynyp wrote:
AndroidMan wrote:
yaboynyp wrote:Now as much fun as it has been for the other thousands of posters to read our super hero spat play itself out in the Assault Weapons Ban Clarification Thread if you would like to continue this OT discussion please use the PM...


You don't respond to me and I never have a reason to speak to you ever again, nor would I ever want to. If you call my name or quote one of my posts, expect me to respond. Try using non comic book references as well. Some of us are adults here, and we have no idea what the hell your comic book references refer to. Grow up as well.



Oh he mad ^^^ :lol: I will enlighten you.. homie?

http://marvel.com/universe/Android_Man


Like I said, I don't read comic books, never have. Enjoy them though. They seem to represent your lack of intellect and your immature behavior. Continue on.
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby johnnywishbone on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:14 pm

Falstaffxx wrote:
This isn't some short-term thing where people want to have a revolution next year or something. Don't be short sighted. And acting as if preserving the ability to protect ourselves against the government some day down the line is just about "black helicopters" is just willful refusal to think. If you neuter citizens now, it could have an impact for hundreds of years.

By the way, I'm not even necessarily against more gun control. It just bothers me that people refuse to acknowledge that the rights involved are significant.


Saying I need an AR-15 with a 30 round clip to protect me from a potentially corrupt government a few hundred years from now makes as much sense as me saying today that I keep a battle axe in case there is another Viking invasion. The pace of change is accelerating not decelerating.

And if you are worried about your freedoms then you are focused on the wrong issues. Citizens United and the Patriot Act infringe on your rights as a citizen today. And what are you going to do about it? Lead a charge against Washington DC? The only way we are going to change these laws is by developing awareness through education - not a gun.
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby yaboynyp on Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:26 pm

AndroidMan wrote:
yaboynyp wrote:
AndroidMan wrote:
You don't respond to me and I never have a reason to speak to you ever again, nor would I ever want to. If you call my name or quote one of my posts, expect me to respond. Try using non comic book references as well. Some of us are adults here, and we have no idea what the hell your comic book references refer to. Grow up as well.



Oh he mad ^^^ :lol: I will enlighten you.. homie?

http://marvel.com/universe/Android_Man


Like I said, I don't read comic books, never have. Enjoy them though. They seem to represent your lack of intellect and your immature behavior. Continue on.


And it goes without saying that you my friend are an expert when it comes to immaturity and lack of intellect..
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:17 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
alphad0gz wrote:[

Once again, assault weapons are simply not the threat they are made out to be. That is a fact supported universally by statistics. What exactly are you trying to accomplish and why? The opinion that they are unnecessary is completely irrelevant, unless you are saying that the government has the right to tell you what you can have and do without any real reason. Jesus, people on here are stupid. What is the practical reason for having one? The question ia better asked as what is the practical reason for making people give them up? A course to educate people on gun use? Seriously? You think this stuff was an accident or borne out of gun ignorance? You think some kind of law would have stopped even a fraction of this? People committing murder are hardly concerned with the legality of their method. That's like saying a person stealing a car would be worried about a parking ticket.

The bottom line, and it really is the bottom line, is that if people want to shoot people, they will find a way regardless of laws. And by the way, if you think there was bloodshed from these incidents you are talking about, wait til you see what happens when they have to go door to door demanding guns from owners. Not saying I would shoot someone doing so, but I promise you there are scores of people that would.

I think the issue is not so much assault rifles, but high capacity magazine. A high capacity magazine is a threat because it allows one to inflict a large amount of damage in a short amount of time. I think the policy is, we won't stop mass-shootings, but with lower capacity magazines, the death counts won't be so high.




do you even have the slightest clue how long it takes to reload a gun with a new magazine?
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:19 pm

seren wrote:Jon Stewart had a nice segment on the issue about the laws on the books and how NRA and its representation in the congress made it impossible to implement many of those laws.

The most interesting tidbit in the segment was that 53 percent of guns used in violent crimes could be traced to 1 percent of sellers.



this is a lie of unimagineable proportions. i hope you realize that. 1% of sellers. seriously. thats so funny it cant even be called a joke.
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:23 pm

GONYK wrote:
alphad0gz wrote:
And for you, the last time, as well........If laws have no impact on actions, what is the purpose of the law? Law-abiding, sane people already obey the law and act in a manner that is consistent with the "purpose" of any new proposed laws. Since any new laws provide no real difference, what is their purpose? Come up with laws that can keep guns from those that would use them against innocent citizens, and I will give it honest consideration, provided the law is enforceable.


No law in the history of laws has prevented or completely abolished a person's ability to do something. All laws are ineffectual and merely reactive to a certain degree. By your logic, there should be no laws.

Now, I understand what you are saying, that the law is essentially lumping in the vast majority of law abiding and responsible gun owners with the comparatively small minority of criminals and treating them all the same. There is merit to that thought.

On the other hand, you have not made a case as to why any civilian needs that kind of weapon with that kind of high capacity magazine. You only talk about this potential uprising against tyranny. Even then, your point is undercut because you admit these laws can't stop people from getting the guns if they really want them.

So really, I ask you again, what is your alternative?

From where I'm sitting, doing the imperfect something that has gotten some measure of results before is better than doing the nothing that has made it easier for gun crimes to occur.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2



i would like you to explain to me why our previous 10 year ban on assault weapons and magazine restrictions had 0 effect on crime.
explain to me how, as obama puts it, chicago is the model city for gun control yet is the murder capital of the country


explain to me how if there are 2-5 billion 'high capacity' magazines already that making a new restriction on them will solve a problem
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:25 pm

HawthorneWingo wrote:On all of the gun issues (military style weapons ban, universal registration, closing the gun show loophole, etc.), the polls show that Americans overwhelmingly (75%) support those measures. It's going to be difficult for Congress not to act without repercussions on Election Day.


"Duh Winning"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



where exactly did they take these polls? who exactly did they ask?
were they all taken in new york and california? do you think they were taken in places like goergia or texas or arizona?


its real easy to make a poll say what you want by asking a specific question in a specific place.
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby GONYK on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:30 pm

LoyalFan wrote:
seren wrote:Jon Stewart had a nice segment on the issue about the laws on the books and how NRA and its representation in the congress made it impossible to implement many of those laws.

The most interesting tidbit in the segment was that 53 percent of guns used in violent crimes could be traced to 1 percent of sellers.



this is a lie of unimagineable proportions. i hope you realize that. 1% of sellers. seriously. thats so funny it cant even be called a joke.


What's your proof that it's a lie? Because Stewart had real sources, and so did the Washington Post and the ATF. I'm not sure the NRA even denies it.
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby johnnywishbone on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:34 pm

LoyalFan wrote:i would like you to explain to me why our previous 10 year ban on assault weapons and magazine restrictions had 0 effect on crime.
explain to me how, as obama puts it, chicago is the model city for gun control yet is the murder capital of the country


explain to me how if there are 2-5 billion 'high capacity' magazines already that making a new restriction on them will solve a problem


I Went After Guns. Obama Can, Too.

SYDNEY, Australia

IT is for Americans and their elected representatives to determine the right response to President Obama’s proposals on gun control. I wouldn’t presume to lecture Americans on the subject. I can, however, describe what I, as prime minister of Australia, did to curb gun violence following a horrific massacre 17 years ago in the hope that it will contribute constructively to the debate in the United States.

I was elected prime minister in early 1996, leading a center-right coalition. Virtually every nonurban electoral district in the country — where gun ownership was higher than elsewhere — sent a member of my coalition to Parliament.

Six weeks later, on April 28, 1996, Martin Bryant, a psychologically disturbed man, used a semiautomatic Armalite rifle and a semiautomatic SKS assault weapon to kill 35 people in a murderous rampage in Port Arthur, Tasmania.

After this wanton slaughter, I knew that I had to use the authority of my office to curb the possession and use of the type of weapons that killed 35 innocent people. I also knew it wouldn’t be easy.

Our challenges were different from America’s. Australia is an even more intensely urban society, with close to 60 percent of our people living in large cities. Our gun lobby isn’t as powerful or well-financed as the National Rifle Association in the United States. Australia, correctly in my view, does not have a Bill of Rights, so our legislatures have more say than America’s over many issues of individual rights, and our courts have less control. Also, we have no constitutional right to bear arms. (After all, the British granted us nationhood peacefully; the United States had to fight for it.)

Because Australia is a federation of states, the national government has no control over gun ownership, sale or use, beyond controlling imports. Given our decentralized system of government, I could reduce the number of dangerous firearms only by persuading the states to enact uniform laws totally prohibiting the ownership, possession and sale of all automatic and semiautomatic weapons while the national government banned the importation of such weapons.

To make this plan work, there had to be a federally financed gun buyback scheme. Ultimately, the cost of the buyback was met by a special one-off tax imposed on all Australians. This required new legislation and was widely accepted across the political spectrum. Almost 700,000 guns were bought back and destroyed — the equivalent of 40 million guns in the United States.

City dwellers supported our plan, but there was strong resistance by some in rural Australia. Many farmers resented being told to surrender weapons they had used safely all of their lives. Penalizing decent, law-abiding citizens because of the criminal behavior of others seemed unfair. Many of them had been lifelong supporters of my coalition and felt bewildered and betrayed by these new laws. I understood their misgivings. Yet I felt there was no alternative.

The fundamental problem was the ready availability of high-powered weapons, which enabled people to convert their murderous impulses into mass killing. Certainly, shortcomings in treating mental illness and the harmful influence of violent video games and movies may have played a role. But nothing trumps easy access to a gun. It is easier to kill 10 people with a gun than with a knife.

Passing gun-control laws was a major challenge for my coalition partner: the rural, conservative National Party. All of its members held seats in nonurban areas. It was also very hard for the state government of Queensland, in Australia’s northeast, where the National Party was dominant, and where the majority of the population was rural.

The leaders of the National Party, as well as the premier of Queensland, courageously supported my government’s decision, despite the electoral pain it caused them. Within a year, a new populist and conservative political party, the One Nation Party, emerged and took many votes from our coalition in subsequent state and federal elections; one of its key policies was the reversal of the gun laws.

For a time, it seemed that certain states might refuse to enact the ban. But I made clear that my government was willing to hold a nationwide referendum to alter the Australian Constitution and give the federal government constitutional power over guns. Such a referendum would have been expensive and divisive, but it would have passed. And all state governments knew this.

In the end, we won the battle to change gun laws because there was majority support across Australia for banning certain weapons. And today, there is a wide consensus that our 1996 reforms not only reduced the gun-related homicide rate, but also the suicide rate. The Australian Institute of Criminology found that gun-related murders and suicides fell sharply after 1996. The American Law and Economics Review found that our gun buyback scheme cut firearm suicides by 74 percent. In the 18 years before the 1996 reforms, Australia suffered 13 gun massacres — each with more than four victims — causing a total of 102 deaths. There has not been a single massacre in that category since 1996.

Few Australians would deny that their country is safer today as a consequence of gun control.

John Howard was prime minister of Australia from 1996 to 2007.

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: January 17, 2013


An earlier version of this article misstated the name of a journal that published an article finding that the country’s gun-buyback plan had cut firearm suicides by 74 percent. It was The American Law and Economics Review, not The American Journal of Law and Economics.
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby GONYK on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:36 pm

LoyalFan wrote:
GONYK wrote:
alphad0gz wrote:
And for you, the last time, as well........If laws have no impact on actions, what is the purpose of the law? Law-abiding, sane people already obey the law and act in a manner that is consistent with the "purpose" of any new proposed laws. Since any new laws provide no real difference, what is their purpose? Come up with laws that can keep guns from those that would use them against innocent citizens, and I will give it honest consideration, provided the law is enforceable.


No law in the history of laws has prevented or completely abolished a person's ability to do something. All laws are ineffectual and merely reactive to a certain degree. By your logic, there should be no laws.

Now, I understand what you are saying, that the law is essentially lumping in the vast majority of law abiding and responsible gun owners with the comparatively small minority of criminals and treating them all the same. There is merit to that thought.

On the other hand, you have not made a case as to why any civilian needs that kind of weapon with that kind of high capacity magazine. You only talk about this potential uprising against tyranny. Even then, your point is undercut because you admit these laws can't stop people from getting the guns if they really want them.

So really, I ask you again, what is your alternative?

From where I'm sitting, doing the imperfect something that has gotten some measure of results before is better than doing the nothing that has made it easier for gun crimes to occur.

Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk 2



i would like you to explain to me why our previous 10 year ban on assault weapons and magazine restrictions had 0 effect on crime.
explain to me how, as obama puts it, chicago is the model city for gun control yet is the murder capital of the country


explain to me how if there are 2-5 billion 'high capacity' magazines already that making a new restriction on them will solve a problem


The number of people killed in mass shootings did go down in the years the ban was in effect, and the number of mass shootings per year has doubled since the ban expired.

The original assault weapons ban was rife with loopholes, easy to get around, and still managed to have that sort of impact.

The problem with banning assault weapons is you need to do it Australia style, and get them all off the street. They actually did curb gun violence in a very significant way. But America won't do that.

Like I said before, the imperfect something is better than the enabling nothing.
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby johnnywishbone on Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:36 pm

LoyalFan wrote:
HawthorneWingo wrote:On all of the gun issues (military style weapons ban, universal registration, closing the gun show loophole, etc.), the polls show that Americans overwhelmingly (75%) support those measures. It's going to be difficult for Congress not to act without repercussions on Election Day.


"Duh Winning"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



where exactly did they take these polls? who exactly did they ask?
were they all taken in new york and california? do you think they were taken in places like goergia or texas or arizona?


its real easy to make a poll say what you want by asking a specific question in a specific place.


This reminds me of the Mitt Romney is going to get elected because all the polls are lying argument. Did you also believe that one? Or do you think that the election was rigged?

p.s. It's nice to see Mugzi has made a return in a new guise.

edit: I just saw this and I feel it's very apropos.

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — One of the first black students who enrolled at the University of Alabama a half century ago in defiance of racial segregation has died. James Hood of Gadsden was 70.
Officials at Adams-Buggs Funeral Home in Gadsden said they are handling arrangements for Hood, who died Thursday.
Then-Alabama Gov. George Wallace made his infamous "stand in the schoolhouse door" in a failed effort to prevent Hood and Vivian Malone from registering for classes at the university in 1963.
Hood and Malone were accompanied by Deputy U.S. Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach when they were confronted by Wallace as they attempted to enter the university's Foster Auditorium to register for classes and pay fees.
Wallace backed down later that day and Hood and Malone registered for classes.


Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/articl ... z2INFBm6MD



I wonder if you took a poll of people in Georgia, Texas and Arizona in 1963 and asked them should James Hood be allowed to attend the University of Alabama what the results would have been? We know that Civil Rights legislation turned all Dixie from Blue to Red so I think it's safe to infer that they would have been against it. Are we supposed to do the wrong thing to satisfy a section of our society that traditionally drags it heels when it comes to the changing times?
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:28 pm

GONYK wrote:
LoyalFan wrote:
seren wrote:Jon Stewart had a nice segment on the issue about the laws on the books and how NRA and its representation in the congress made it impossible to implement many of those laws.

The most interesting tidbit in the segment was that 53 percent of guns used in violent crimes could be traced to 1 percent of sellers.



this is a lie of unimagineable proportions. i hope you realize that. 1% of sellers. seriously. thats so funny it cant even be called a joke.


What's your proof that it's a lie? Because Stewart had real sources, and so did the Washington Post and the ATF. I'm not sure the NRA even denies it.



do you know anything of guns other than what you read in the news?
do you have the first clue of how many guns are sold in this country on a yearly basis
use your own common sense for just a minute. do you seriously HONESTLY believe that over half of the guns used in violent crimes from from 1% of gun sellers.
i dont have to pull any stats at all to tell you that is not possible even if you fake the numbers.


get a clue. seriously
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:29 pm

johnnywishbone wrote:
LoyalFan wrote:i would like you to explain to me why our previous 10 year ban on assault weapons and magazine restrictions had 0 effect on crime.
explain to me how, as obama puts it, chicago is the model city for gun control yet is the murder capital of the country


explain to me how if there are 2-5 billion 'high capacity' magazines already that making a new restriction on them will solve a problem


I Went After Guns. Obama Can, Too.

SYDNEY, Australia

IT is for Americans and their elected representatives to determine the right response to President Obama’s proposals on gun control. I wouldn’t presume to lecture Americans on the subject. I can, however, describe what I, as prime minister of Australia, did to curb gun violence following a horrific massacre 17 years ago in the hope that it will contribute constructively to the debate in the United States.

I was elected prime minister in early 1996, leading a center-right coalition. Virtually every nonurban electoral district in the country — where gun ownership was higher than elsewhere — sent a member of my coalition to Parliament.

Six weeks later, on April 28, 1996, Martin Bryant, a psychologically disturbed man, used a semiautomatic Armalite rifle and a semiautomatic SKS assault weapon to kill 35 people in a murderous rampage in Port Arthur, Tasmania.

After this wanton slaughter, I knew that I had to use the authority of my office to curb the possession and use of the type of weapons that killed 35 innocent people. I also knew it wouldn’t be easy.

Our challenges were different from America’s. Australia is an even more intensely urban society, with close to 60 percent of our people living in large cities. Our gun lobby isn’t as powerful or well-financed as the National Rifle Association in the United States. Australia, correctly in my view, does not have a Bill of Rights, so our legislatures have more say than America’s over many issues of individual rights, and our courts have less control. Also, we have no constitutional right to bear arms. (After all, the British granted us nationhood peacefully; the United States had to fight for it.)

Because Australia is a federation of states, the national government has no control over gun ownership, sale or use, beyond controlling imports. Given our decentralized system of government, I could reduce the number of dangerous firearms only by persuading the states to enact uniform laws totally prohibiting the ownership, possession and sale of all automatic and semiautomatic weapons while the national government banned the importation of such weapons.

To make this plan work, there had to be a federally financed gun buyback scheme. Ultimately, the cost of the buyback was met by a special one-off tax imposed on all Australians. This required new legislation and was widely accepted across the political spectrum. Almost 700,000 guns were bought back and destroyed — the equivalent of 40 million guns in the United States.

City dwellers supported our plan, but there was strong resistance by some in rural Australia. Many farmers resented being told to surrender weapons they had used safely all of their lives. Penalizing decent, law-abiding citizens because of the criminal behavior of others seemed unfair. Many of them had been lifelong supporters of my coalition and felt bewildered and betrayed by these new laws. I understood their misgivings. Yet I felt there was no alternative.

The fundamental problem was the ready availability of high-powered weapons, which enabled people to convert their murderous impulses into mass killing. Certainly, shortcomings in treating mental illness and the harmful influence of violent video games and movies may have played a role. But nothing trumps easy access to a gun. It is easier to kill 10 people with a gun than with a knife.

Passing gun-control laws was a major challenge for my coalition partner: the rural, conservative National Party. All of its members held seats in nonurban areas. It was also very hard for the state government of Queensland, in Australia’s northeast, where the National Party was dominant, and where the majority of the population was rural.

The leaders of the National Party, as well as the premier of Queensland, courageously supported my government’s decision, despite the electoral pain it caused them. Within a year, a new populist and conservative political party, the One Nation Party, emerged and took many votes from our coalition in subsequent state and federal elections; one of its key policies was the reversal of the gun laws.

For a time, it seemed that certain states might refuse to enact the ban. But I made clear that my government was willing to hold a nationwide referendum to alter the Australian Constitution and give the federal government constitutional power over guns. Such a referendum would have been expensive and divisive, but it would have passed. And all state governments knew this.

In the end, we won the battle to change gun laws because there was majority support across Australia for banning certain weapons. And today, there is a wide consensus that our 1996 reforms not only reduced the gun-related homicide rate, but also the suicide rate. The Australian Institute of Criminology found that gun-related murders and suicides fell sharply after 1996. The American Law and Economics Review found that our gun buyback scheme cut firearm suicides by 74 percent. In the 18 years before the 1996 reforms, Australia suffered 13 gun massacres — each with more than four victims — causing a total of 102 deaths. There has not been a single massacre in that category since 1996.

Few Australians would deny that their country is safer today as a consequence of gun control.

John Howard was prime minister of Australia from 1996 to 2007.

This article has been revised to reflect the following correction:

Correction: January 17, 2013


An earlier version of this article misstated the name of a journal that published an article finding that the country’s gun-buyback plan had cut firearm suicides by 74 percent. It was The American Law and Economics Review, not The American Journal of Law and Economics.




do you know what it means in law enforcement circles when they talk about "cooking the books"
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:40 pm

[/quote]

The number of people killed in mass shootings did go down in the years the ban was in effect, and the number of mass shootings per year has doubled since the ban expired.

The original assault weapons ban was rife with loopholes, easy to get around, and still managed to have that sort of impact.

The problem with banning assault weapons is you need to do it Australia style, and get them all off the street. They actually did curb gun violence in a very significant way. But America won't do that.

Like I said before, the imperfect something is better than the enabling nothing.[/quote]

mass shootings are a political tool. since columbine we have averaged 4 per year. in the big picture of overall crime, gun crime specifically, it is in the low single digit percentages at best

so the root question here is reducing gun crime, not just mass shootings. of murders overall 2 times as many people are killed with hands and feet than any sort of long rifle, never mind those categorized as an "assault rifle. more people are even killed with clubs and knives.

this brings us back to everyday murders. and those are overwhelmingly being done with handguns. so if your goal is to reduce crime, even mass murders, than your real mission would be to ban hand guns, not rifles.

you are never in a million years going to do here what they did in australia. why might you ask. because even as that prime minister pointed out, unlike them we have "PEOPLES RIGHTS" spelled out in a BILL OF RIGHTS that is the basis of our CONSTITUTION. and in our CONSTITUTION it specifically says that the PEOPLE have the right to bare arms


now as for the original assault weapon ban. it was not a failure because it was rife with holes. it was a failure simply because criminals dont obtain guns illegally in the first place. much like drungs. you can not remove something from an equation when people want it, for good or bad reasons. and since you can not blanketly remove guns from america like they did in australia than anything you do is pointless.

what you are doing is the equivalent of trying to empty an olympic size swimming pool with a plastic red party cup. and there is a garden hose turned onto full blast constantly refilling that pool from multiple locations


so ultimately you are saying we have to do something about gun violence. so lets enact laws that only effect people who follow them anyway. we did it before and it didnt work. but we are going to do it again just to tell people we did something.

genius
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Re: OT - Assault Weapons Ban Clarification

Postby LoyalFan on Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:46 pm

johnnywishbone wrote:
LoyalFan wrote:
HawthorneWingo wrote:On all of the gun issues (military style weapons ban, universal registration, closing the gun show loophole, etc.), the polls show that Americans overwhelmingly (75%) support those measures. It's going to be difficult for Congress not to act without repercussions on Election Day.


"Duh Winning"

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



where exactly did they take these polls? who exactly did they ask?
were they all taken in new york and california? do you think they were taken in places like goergia or texas or arizona?


its real easy to make a poll say what you want by asking a specific question in a specific place.


This reminds me of the Mitt Romney is going to get elected because all the polls are lying argument. Did you also believe that one? Or do you think that the election was rigged?

p.s. It's nice to see Mugzi has made a return in a new guise.

edit: I just saw this and I feel it's very apropos.

MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — One of the first black students who enrolled at the University of Alabama a half century ago in defiance of racial segregation has died. James Hood of Gadsden was 70.
Officials at Adams-Buggs Funeral Home in Gadsden said they are handling arrangements for Hood, who died Thursday.
Then-Alabama Gov. George Wallace made his infamous "stand in the schoolhouse door" in a failed effort to prevent Hood and Vivian Malone from registering for classes at the university in 1963.
Hood and Malone were accompanied by Deputy U.S. Attorney General Nicholas Katzenbach when they were confronted by Wallace as they attempted to enter the university's Foster Auditorium to register for classes and pay fees.
Wallace backed down later that day and Hood and Malone registered for classes.


Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/us/articl ... z2INFBm6MD



I wonder if you took a poll of people in Georgia, Texas and Arizona in 1963 and asked them should James Hood be allowed to attend the University of Alabama what the results would have been? We know that Civil Rights legislation turned all Dixie from Blue to Red so I think it's safe to infer that they would have been against it. Are we supposed to do the wrong thing to satisfy a section of our society that traditionally drags it heels when it comes to the changing times?




times are not changing my friend. you live in a bubble, one in fact filled with ignorance. in the end all of this is empty talk of useless opinions. you will sooner see george bush elected president again before any congress or senate is able to pass any sort of assault weapons ban. this is a sad PR stunt by the president to save face and show he is doing something.


6 months from now people will not even remember this, just like their trayvon martin hoodies................
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