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ibraheim718 wrote:
I don't know what you're trying to say.. you made a judgement with some sort of finality after he had an off game and I made a statement that he didn't hurt the team he was just taken out of it based on the same one game. There two different comments.

JKidd has horrible games where he literally does nothing but I'm not crazy enough to close the book on him.

That team has still played only a dozen or so games together. Nash has played 14 games... To me he looks the same. He's not the type of player that is going to force the issue.

He did hurt them by not being able to get the ball in the post.

Everyone knows Kidd isn't the same player he used to be. I am saying Nash has finally slowed down after years in Phx where people wondered when. And it's not just one game, I've watched him play a lot this season.

blumatic wrote:
I think that is very hard to do. He is just the ultimate player. But his team has weaknesses that can be exploited. Rebound and keep turnovers low.

Im not saying you sweep them and beating them 20 points a game. But Its how you keep the game and series close and you have a stud like Melo.

Blasphemy... make it harder for them to get good shots than they make it for you to get good shots. Winning games comes down to making shots, period.

I'm looking at boxscores from the 2011 finals.. there were games where Dallas won turning the ball over way more than Miami and getting out-rebounded.

Crazyknicks wrote:

ibraheim718 wrote:
I don't know what you're trying to say.. you made a judgement with some sort of finality after he had an off game and I made a statement that he didn't hurt the team he was just taken out of it based on the same one game. There two different comments.

JKidd has horrible games where he literally does nothing but I'm not crazy enough to close the book on him.

That team has still played only a dozen or so games together. Nash has played 14 games... To me he looks the same. He's not the type of player that is going to force the issue.

He did hurt them by not being able to get the ball in the post.

Everyone knows Kidd isn't the same player he used to be. I am saying Nash has finally slowed down after years in Phx where people wondered when. And it's not just one game, I've watched him play a lot this season.

I don't think you've watched him play the last few years.. he looks the same to me.. that's what I'm saying. And they made a concerted effort and an adjustment putting Ray Allen on him to stop him.. that was all Spoelstra and D'antoni's fault for not adjusting... guys who are done or guys like Derrick Fisher what you called him which was just sports forum speak I hope don't get that type of attention. You think if you asked Lebron if Nash was done.. off the record.. he would say yes? He's still a really good player... and for his age he's a great player.

I've got to jet... I just wish you would've paid Spo more credit for his adjustment instead of taking a cheap shot at Nash. Nice rapping with you CK>

Nash isn't even close to being 'done'. He's still a good player, it's just that last year he was playing a really high standard so i guess people expected him to replicate that.

Do people believe the Lakers will make the playoffs? It's going to take a damn near perfect run especially in the west.

ibraheim718 wrote:

blumatic wrote:
I think that is very hard to do. He is just the ultimate player. But his team has weaknesses that can be exploited. Rebound and keep turnovers low.

Im not saying you sweep them and beating them 20 points a game. But Its how you keep the game and series close and you have a stud like Melo.

Blasphemy... make it harder for them to get good shots than they make it for you to get good shots. Winning games comes down to making shots, period.

I'm looking at boxscores from the 2011 finals.. there were games where Dallas won turning the ball over way more than Miami and getting out-rebounded.

So what your saying is that if we score more points than they do, we might have a chance to win.

That Lakers team is seriously flawed. Their backcourt is the most problematic one. Neither Nash nor Kobe can guard consistently. They are old and slow. Their best bet is to try to trade for a defensive guard who can also knock the three and give them minutes is Afflalo type of guy. Move Kobe to 3 spot and get another PF who can defend both forward positions and know the three. That would be a Wilson Chandler type of guy. If they can get those two, they can make the playoffs. If they want to be a contender they would need one more solid bench player who is not a liabilty on the defensive end and can create for himself and others. Say JR Smith type of guy. They also need more rebounding and dirty work on the frontcourt. Say Reggie Evans.

Tough task. I think they are done for now. In the off-season, they should keep Howard, buy out Kobe to create cap space, trade Nash, Gasol, and Metta for smaller contracts and go after CP3. This particular group is done.

The real problem with Lakers is their bench and coach.. Bench is lacking any talent on back and front court and coach.. we all know the coach..

Nash looks like he's physically fine (doesn't have the fat biceps that a lot of old guys that are clearly not in the same type of shape they were in their prime have...see Kidd, see Wallace, etc). He just seems a little lost out there. Could just be that he's not used to playing with the other guys (understandeable) or it could be that the personalities aren't clicking (in Phoenix, during their better days, the comraderie between the guys were well known).

But yeah, in the West, it'll take a pretty darn good run for the Lakers to be able to get back into the playoff race. Really not sure if that's possible under D'Antoni. At times in last nights game they were turning the ball over like they were working at a McDonalds in midtown at lunchtime...apparently trying to run D'Antoni's plays. Other times, when they slowed it down and went to their strengths (size inside and Kobe ISO...stuff that D'Antoni's system is not known for) they got back in it.

IMO the Lakers (even with Nash and Howard) are basically still a bunch of old dogs that are having problems learning new tricks. They'd probably have been best off hiring Phil's protege Brian Shaw if Phil was either not interested in them or they (or rather Junior Buss) weren't interested in Phil. That or hire Larry Brown and make it about defense first and let the sheer talent they have take care of itself on offense.

One big myth about Gasol/Howard is that Phil made Gasol/Bynum duo work and Gasol/Howard should work seamlessly. He simply didn't. In their two championship postseasons Bynum averaged 17 mpg and 24 mpg respectively. He was completely out in the other year they went to the finals. Gasol has always been a center. The match was always redundant. Things worked out because they had Odom at PF who was the guy really getting minutes along Gasol or Bynum. Now you can't treat Howard like Bynum and cut his minutes to 24 mpg. Something has to give. They've got to trade Gasol and get something for him.

seren wrote:One big myth about Gasol/Howard is that Phil made Gasol/Bynum duo work and Gasol/Howard should work seamlessly. He simply didn't. In their two championship postseasons Bynum averaged 17 mpg and 24 mpg respectively. He was completely out in the other year they went to the finals. Gasol has always been a center. The match was always redundant. Things worked out because they had Odom at PF who was the guy really getting minutes along Gasol or Bynum. Now you can't treat Howard like Bynum and cut his minutes to 24 mpg. Something has to give. They've got to trade Gasol and get something for him.

And who is going to giveup anything of value for a broken down Gasol, who makes $40M over the next two seasons and has a 15% trade kicker? If they could get anything more than expiring contracts, Gasol would have been gone long ago.

fdr2012 wrote:

seren wrote:One big myth about Gasol/Howard is that Phil made Gasol/Bynum duo work and Gasol/Howard should work seamlessly. He simply didn't. In their two championship postseasons Bynum averaged 17 mpg and 24 mpg respectively. He was completely out in the other year they went to the finals. Gasol has always been a center. The match was always redundant. Things worked out because they had Odom at PF who was the guy really getting minutes along Gasol or Bynum. Now you can't treat Howard like Bynum and cut his minutes to 24 mpg. Something has to give. They've got to trade Gasol and get something for him.

And who is going to giveup anything of value for a broken down Gasol, who makes $40M over the next two seasons and has a 15% trade kicker? If they could get anything more than expiring contracts, Gasol would have been gone long ago.

He was traded last year. I still think he does get dealt this season as well.

fdr2012 wrote:

seren wrote:One big myth about Gasol/Howard is that Phil made Gasol/Bynum duo work and Gasol/Howard should work seamlessly. He simply didn't. In their two championship postseasons Bynum averaged 17 mpg and 24 mpg respectively. He was completely out in the other year they went to the finals. Gasol has always been a center. The match was always redundant. Things worked out because they had Odom at PF who was the guy really getting minutes along Gasol or Bynum. Now you can't treat Howard like Bynum and cut his minutes to 24 mpg. Something has to give. They've got to trade Gasol and get something for him.

And who is going to giveup anything of value for a broken down Gasol, who makes $40M over the next two seasons and has a 15% trade kicker? If they could get anything more than expiring contracts, Gasol would have been gone long ago.

I agree with you. Finding a trade is very very difficult. Good news is trade kicker is really around 5 percent due to some max rules (can't exceed a certain level). Bad news is it is still a 40+ million contract.

Who would take on him?

- A team that believes he is the missing piece for the next two years for their championship run. I don't see any legit contender thinking that.

- A team that believes they can get him now and keep him in the long run for a rebuild. That doesn't exist either given Gasol's age.

- A team that needs some kind of a boost as they are going nowhere with what they have and are not waiting for cap flexibility either. There are several teams especially in the Eastern conference. Toronto and Milwaukee fits the bill. In the West, Minnesota seems to be the prime candidate.

Gasol still has value. He was beasting in the olympics. He just needs to play center. If I'm LA, I'd pull the trigger on a deal for Corey Brewer and assorted expiring contracts, provided there's some other value there. If Denver can give up, say, Brewer, Chandler, and McGee, they should do it. The key is finding a third team that would give up decent guys on expirings for McGee and Chandler.

How about this one between Denver, LA, and BK? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bzakuk6

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:Gasol still has value. He was beasting in the olympics. He just needs to play center. If I'm LA, I'd pull the trigger on a deal for Corey Brewer and assorted expiring contracts, provided there's some other value there. If Denver can give up, say, Brewer, Chandler, and McGee, they should do it. The key is finding a third team that would give up decent guys on expirings for McGee and Chandler.

How about this one between Denver, LA, and BK? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bzakuk6

That trade you mentioned would put Denver approximately 7 million dollars over the tax threshold next year. The tax penalty for that is more than 11 million dollars. Denver openly admits that they will never pay the tax.

So no go.

seren wrote:

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:Gasol still has value. He was beasting in the olympics. He just needs to play center. If I'm LA, I'd pull the trigger on a deal for Corey Brewer and assorted expiring contracts, provided there's some other value there. If Denver can give up, say, Brewer, Chandler, and McGee, they should do it. The key is finding a third team that would give up decent guys on expirings for McGee and Chandler.

How about this one between Denver, LA, and BK? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bzakuk6

That trade you mentioned would put Denver approximately 7 million dollars over the tax threshold next year. The tax penalty for that is more than 11 million dollars. Denver openly admits that they will never pay the tax.

So no go.

What if they include some longer contracts (like Wilson and/or Dre) instead of Mozgov?

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:

seren wrote:

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:Gasol still has value. He was beasting in the olympics. He just needs to play center. If I'm LA, I'd pull the trigger on a deal for Corey Brewer and assorted expiring contracts, provided there's some other value there. If Denver can give up, say, Brewer, Chandler, and McGee, they should do it. The key is finding a third team that would give up decent guys on expirings for McGee and Chandler.

How about this one between Denver, LA, and BK? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bzakuk6

That trade you mentioned would put Denver approximately 7 million dollars over the tax threshold next year. The tax penalty for that is more than 11 million dollars. Denver openly admits that they will never pay the tax.

So no go.

What if they include some longer contracts (like Wilson and/or Dre) instead of Mozgov?

That is more workable. Still I am not convinced they want to get older at this point.

I think teams like Toronto and Minnesota are more likely to be interested in Gasol.

Denver has no interest in Gasol. Minny may want Gasol, but they can't match contracts in a way that makes sense.

The ONLY deal for Gasol to be made is for Bagniani and Calderon. If I were LA, I would grab that deal while it was still on the table.

If Howard could hit foul shots, it could've been a different outcome. I have to believe that he won't be back with LA next year.


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Gentry fired?! I have not been following the Suns too closely but it seemed like they were playing hard. That team is terrible. Their record seems about right.