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"State of the Knicks" Mid-season analysis thread

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Post#31 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:16 am by RHODEY

moocow007 wrote:More and more the Knicks are beginning to play East-West on offense instead of North-South. That in turn results in too many jumpers and not enough shots closer to the basket. Yes, having Felton back will help that but the Knicks need to figure out a way to be able to penetrate and get higher percentage shots.

Rebounding is an issue yes, but toughness (mental/physical) may be a bigger concern. Yes, Rasheed Wallace and Marcus Camby adds that but who knows how many games they'll play and if they will be able to make it through the season and into the playoffs.

Too much reliance on Anthony right now which is just playing into the opposing teams hands since they are basically daring anyone else to beat them. Result is too many 11-29 nights.

Realize that the Knicks road to anything in the playoffs will need to go through at least 2 of these 5 teams...Miami, Chicago, Indiana, Boston and Brooklyn. Of those 5, 4 of them will play extremely physical and will look to bully the Knicks. Can the Knicks not only handle the physicality but dish it out as well?

IMHO at this point, while you can argue that it's still early and that they can wait for all their players to get back, the reality is that there is such a thing as waiting too long. The Atlantic is no longer a guarantee (thanks to the Nets) so they simply cannot afford to give away games waiting for guys to get healthy.

A war isn't coming, it's hear already. They need to start playing like they are in one. And they need to evaluate the roster and bring in guys that can help them in the areas that they are weak at RIGHT NOW.

Drop White and Kurt Thomas and bring in Delonte West and Kenyon Martin...RIGHT NOW. West will go a long way to address the lack of penetration and he's very willing to attack the basket and draw defenses away from the perimeter which, in turn, will open up the Knicks shooters. West is a strong defender AND he also is a very good rebounder for his position. West also brings with him plenty of toughness and moxy. And he can shoot from the perimeter as well. Martin will help on off the boards and will bring a fighters mentality to this team that they are lacking right now. Neither White or Thomas are likely to do anything or contribute in any area.


Kenyon sure , Delonte ....from a skills standpoint yes but he is Crazy and he likes guns.Not a good mix. Would like someone who brings what he brings though
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Post#32 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:17 am by Thugger HBC

If Delonte acts up, you cut him...no harm to the team.
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Post#33 Re: "State of the Knicks" Season an
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:34 am by Knicksfan20

GONYK wrote:You've summed up what I've been noticing perfectly.

You are very accurate that these are correctable issues and I hope to see some adjustments made.

We have gotten to use to relying on out-talenting teams and not doing the actual basketball plays that separate good from great in this league.

Plain and simple, we need to go back to an offense. Run plays, where players have to be in certain spots at certain times. You don't have to do it all game, but do it when we need settling and when Melo is cold.

Our over-reliance on Melo ISO is making us predictable, and teams are gameplanning for it now

same here.

I especially agree about Woodson. He seems to have changed a bit from that get in yu face coach to the I wanna be friends coach. Woody needs to start getting in his layers asses and needs to get back to dogging JR. Woodson is giving JR too much leeway now. I'm sick of the 20 ft step back jumpers with 19 on the clock.

Whether it goes in or not its not a smart shot.

I don't have an issue with h Melo shooting It like he is. But in games whee his shot is off, he needs to be less selfish and look to distribute and get some easy baskets.

I also agree with Novak. He either needs to shoot more or ride the bench. Even if its somewhat contested he needs to shoot. Any time he can get a clean shot off he needs to take it... Or else his a liability.
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Post#34 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:35 am by sol537

anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
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Post#35 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:40 am by Fat Kat

Thugger HBC wrote:If Delonte acts up, you cut him...no harm to the team.


The Grizzlies will reportedly sign free agent Delonte West
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Post#36 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:51 am by Knicksfan20

sol537 wrote:anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

yea I have. JR needs to shoot less and worry about rebounding and dishing like he has Ben doing most of the season. I'd rather 14/5/5 over 18 4 2 on bad %

way too many bad shots in the early shot clock. Jr is a good passer, id like to see him get amare envolved more then looking to chuck
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Post#37 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:01 pm by ORANGEandBLUE

sol537 wrote:anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Yes. I'm hoping that this is just the result of them having to pick up the slack for Felton. I think Melo did a good job of avoiding bad shots against BK. JR just takes too many bad shots and as of late he hasn't really been a plus defender. If we have Felton, Stat, and Melo on the floor then his offense becomes totally expendable. One of my biggest worries this season is that Woody is closed to the possibility that JR can get anything less than 30 mpg.

To be honest, I'd consider trading him if we could get back a smart, defensive-minded SF who can also shoot. Perhaps we can get involved in a Rudy Gay trade where JR goes to Memphis and we get Jared Dudley?
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Post#38 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:14 pm by blumatic

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
sol537 wrote:anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Yes. I'm hoping that this is just the result of them having to pick up the slack for Felton. I think Melo did a good job of avoiding bad shots against BK. JR just takes too many bad shots and as of late he hasn't really been a plus defender. If we have Felton, Stat, and Melo on the floor then his offense becomes totally expendable. One of my biggest worries this season is that Woody is closed to the possibility that JR can get anything less than 30 mpg.

To be honest, I'd consider trading him if we could get back a smart, defensive-minded SF who can also shoot. Perhaps we can get involved in a Rudy Gay trade where JR goes to Memphis and we get Jared Dudley?



Im starting to believe the Felton being out has put this team out of whack offensively. Our PnRs are not there at all. Carmelo doing extra work. The start of the 4th quarter last night was pathetic. Kidd with fouls and Prigs hurt, Shump was our starting point guard.

Superbowl coming up with Felton's return near. We need some Feltonsanity.
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Post#39 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:15 pm by KnicksScholar24

Thugger HBC wrote:I do think the team is too "COOL WITH EACH OTHER". This sounds odd but every team with a championship mindset has at least one guy who just does his job doesn't create commotion but isn't buddy buddy with the club. They need to add this person somehow...


That does sound odd. I don't think they just need to add a player who is isn't buddy-buddy with the club, but it would help if they had someone one the court who gets on someone who is consistently making bad decisions. Someone to yell at JR for a bad shot, or yell at Stoudemire/Novak/Copeland for a bad rotation. Mike Woodson does this, but it not an immediate disciplinary response. I think it's partly the responsibility of the people in the front rows. They need to yell at players like JR to STOP SHOOTING! Or yell to Stoudemire to BOX OUT! Maybe Wallace was that guy for NY, but he's been out for weeks and has not timeline for a return.

But the notion to just add a player who isn't buddy-buddy with the team doesn't make sense.
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Post#40 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:16 pm by nykfan42

What I'm most concerned about is their defense. I am sure Shumpert's return will help a lot once he's playing consistent minutes but their interior defense is very weak. Chandler can't do it himself and I think they really need to go after Kenyon Martin and stop waiting around for Sheed. I don't think he's going to come back in time, his injury sounds very shady. I think it's definitely worse than they're reporting it to be.

I am concerned but I'm not going to panic because they've had to deal with so many injuries this season. They've had the depth where they won't go into a huge tail spin. I think with Felton returning it will make a huge difference. They're 5-6 without him and they should be able to up the tempo and get better dribble penetration. As long as they're full-strength going into the playoffs and have home-court they should be able to go deep, definitely get out of the 1st round.

I am also very pleased to see STAT progressing. Although his defense could always use work, a lot of it.
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Post#41 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:57 pm by moocow007

sol537 wrote:anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Could be but with Felton out it's kinda like what Anthony was "forced" into last season...trying to do too much with the ball too often to try to generate some offense. Great if he was Lebron but not otherwise.
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Post#42 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:14 pm by seren

sol537 wrote:anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Quite honestly, I don't.

What I see is Kidd/Pablo failing to execute pick and rolls and anyone buy Melo/JR doing practically nothing on the offensive end. It is normal that it looks like MD's system as just like then right now we are playing without PG play.
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Post#43 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:15 pm by moocow007

seren wrote:
sol537 wrote:anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Quite honestly, I don't.

What I see is Kidd/Pablo failing to execute pick and rolls and anyone buy Melo/JR doing practically nothing on the offensive end. It is normal that it looks like MD's system as just like then right now we are playing without PG play.


Yeah I agree. Hopefully Felton returning changes that some.
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Post#44 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:19 pm by j4remi

Random stat I looked at on a whim...
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/370 ... EyB6PLPKB4

Melo hasn't shot worse than 41% from the field in games where he played 35 mins or less...He had one 41% game and every other time his minutes were well managed he's posted about 44% from the field or better. Just to take the exercise further, I didn't count but in the games where he hits that 36 minute mark or more he he's been below that mark about half the time...which isn't good.

Just food for thought.
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Post#45 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:20 pm by ORANGEandBLUE

Even before Felton went down, we were playing a lot of hero-ball, with Felton being probably the biggest culprit in the weeks leading up to his injuries. I think Woody lets too much slide in terms of bad shots.
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Post#46 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:22 pm by Knicker23

I'm just not sure what this team is. They have lost all identity they had.

And what's worse.. A large part of early success has to be tied to 3s falling at high rate -- which can't simply be "got back on track" with practice... So it makes you question, was THAT the aberration, and this play is more along the lines of normal play for this team?

There are many other factors; injuries, Felton out etc.... But that doesn't excuse a lot of the spark this team had out of the gate that have been nonexistent; starts.. defense intensity.. offensive efficiency... At what point do we wonder whether the defense will ever return to what it was? Injuries, schedule, etc isn't an excuse..

The longer this drags out, the more you have to think what they are now is more a product of what they are... Their not great on defense, not great on offense... but have a very good player in Melo, and a team good enough surrounding him that can put themselves in a position to win on most nights...

Which is still night and day from blowing teams out by +10 each game.. Which wasn't obviously going to be sustained.. but outside of Melo putting up huge numbers early on, this team doesn't look like it can blow anyone out.
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Post#47 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:33 pm by blumatic

seren wrote:
sol537 wrote:anyone else notice how JR Smith and 'Melo are trying to hero-ball their way to the All-Star game and MVP, respectively, and how Woodson is enabling them? 'Melo has been chucking at close to 40% lately and JR has been worse.

It's almost like D'antoni's chuck and duck system all over again when we didn't have a PG on the floor. These last 12-15 games reminds me of the D'antoni era. I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Quite honestly, I don't.

What I see is Kidd/Pablo failing to execute pick and rolls and anyone buy Melo/JR doing practically nothing on the offensive end. It is normal that it looks like MD's system as just like then right now we are playing without PG play.


I just dont think they have the speed. In a PnR. The threat is the Roller and the Ball hanlder. The ball handler must score to keep the defenders honest. Generally the means using that pick to blow by defenders. Kidd and Pablo get met at the rim with ease. Felton can score around trees. When healthy (I think his bad shooting and lay up missing was a result of two bruised hands that he played through).

On a side note. Amare is moving very well. I mean running up and down the court. He looks lightest on his feet since April 2011. He's getting some bounce back. Defense and team defense coming along, I just want some rebounds.
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Post#48 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:43 pm by blumatic

Knicker23 wrote:I'm just not sure what this team is. They have lost all identity they had.

And what's worse.. A large part of early success has to be tied to 3s falling at high rate -- which can't simply be "got back on track" with practice... So it makes you question, was THAT the aberration, and this play is more along the lines of normal play for this team?

There are many other factors; injuries, Felton out etc.... But that doesn't excuse a lot of the spark this team had out of the gate that have been nonexistent; starts.. defense intensity.. offensive efficiency... At what point do we wonder whether the defense will ever return to what it was? Injuries, schedule, etc isn't an excuse..

The longer this drags out, the more you have to think what they are now is more a product of what they are... Their not great on defense, not great on offense... but have a very good player in Melo, and a team good enough surrounding him that can put themselves in a position to win on most nights...

Which is still night and day from blowing teams out by +10 each game.. Which wasn't obviously going to be sustained.. but outside of Melo putting up huge numbers early on, this team doesn't look like it can blow anyone out.


Melo has to lead this team defensively. Im not talking about being the best defensive player, but he has to bring it harder. What happened to those clothesline blocks. Diving for loose balls. He did make a statement that he has to be careful not to injure himself because he is too important to the organization. I can understand that but you gotta inspire you team defensively. Make plays pick up the energy. If Melo doesnt demonstrate energy and fight on defense, the team wont go far.
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Post#49 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:49 pm by ctorres

HakeemKnicks wrote:
GONYK wrote:
ctorres wrote:Was going to make this its own thread, but decided to just post it here.

In our 14 losses:
- Only ONE loss has been a blowout (103-131 to Houston)
- Besides that, only TWO other losses have been by 10 or more points (95-105 to Memphis, 96-109 to Houston)
- The other 11 losses have all been decided by ONLY three possessions or less!

See for yourselves... http://www.basketball-reference.com/tea ... games.html

I'm not saying it's not a weakness that we've struggled to finish games, but think about it for a second. It's incredibly hard to blow the Knicks out, let alone actually beat the Knicks. Just about every loss we've had has been a close game. We may lack execution towards the end of some games, but we've been in almost every single game (except ONLY three, and even a 10 point loss isn't much!). I mean, Miami has lost 6 of their games by 10+ points, 4 of them were blowouts, 2 having been to the Knicks!

In conclusion, I think the Knicks are doing fine because outside of Houston and Memphis, every loss we've had has been hard fought and could have gone either way. That to me is a sign of a team that's on the right track. Posters here keep saying that the rest of the league has us figured out, but the reality is that most of those teams have barely scraped by against us.


Solid point, but that doesn't account for games like the 2 against Chicago where we got our ass handed to us and made "too little too late" comebacks to get the game under 10. There were a few more games like that.

Teams that consistently lose close games show lack of execution.

It's a solid point, but I don't really think it is the badge of honor you make it out to be.


I don't believe this post is used as a "badge of honor" but more of a reminder that we are for the most part in these games.

I mostly took for it that we aren't executing the way we should to close out games and these are problems that aren't out of the stratosphere of being corrected.


This is correct. Regardless of some of the lulls, the effort has been there to win every game except the two Rockets games, though the Rockets games could have been a case where they're just the absolute worst matchup for us.

Execution is something that can be worked on in practice, as well as finding consistency in a lineup/rotation. Effort is something that comes from within, something that a coach has to inspire. You can give Woodson credit for that. Doc Rivers is struggling to do it and he's supposed to be at least a top 5 coach in the NBA. Celtics have FOURTEEN losses by 10+ points, most of them blowouts!

That Bulls game would have been hard to win even if we would have brought our A game from the beginning. Still, with better execution at the end, we could have pulled off an upset.

We're not that far off from getting back to another winning stretch. Even after losing so many close games, this team still has not lost its composure. The players give a crap, hate losing, and know they should be better than they already are. If there's one thing I know about this team mid-season is that they're enjoyable to root for.
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Post#50 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:51 pm by AmazingJason

We need to get healthy, bottom line. What makes us roll is Melo and Felton, with JR coming off the bench. When you can throw out Chandler, Camby and Wallace in the frontcourt and Shump on the perimeter, that's what makes us elite because of the shutdown defense. We need all of those elements to be truly elite...
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