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"State of the Knicks" Mid-season analysis thread

Moderators: moocow007, magnumt, Brooklyn_Yards, Knickstape1214, GONYK, NoLayupRule, Thugger HBC, j4remi, kane2021

Post#61 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Jan 23, 2013 2:38 pm by Thugger HBC

brigadierjerry wrote:thugger,

good post on what the knicks need to work on. i am curious as to what was ur and other knick fans expectations for the knicks before the season started?

my expectations for this year was have a strong showing in 2nd round with a possibility of reaching ecf. i still,think that is a possibility provided team is healthy enough going into playoffs


I do have some quotables for you...

Re: Knicks most important player?

Unread postby Thugger HBC on Sat Oct 13, 2012 10:50 am
This team will rise or fall at the hands of Melo.

Everyone has importantance but the team goes nowhere without # 7 playing at an mvp level.

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Re: Where will Knicks rank defensively next year?

Unread postby Thugger HBC on Sat Aug 18, 2012 2:47 pm
I can see top five once again defensively, but I'm more concerned with the offense.

Can't be below average on that side again.


Re: NBA.com: Knicks ranked behind Brooklyn. Really?
If there are 4 teams better than the Knicks record-wise in the East come playoff time, that is a disgrace.
I'd give Miami, Boston, Brooklyn WITH Howard....that's it.


Here's are some truer gauges.....

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1199467

But if you wanna know what i really thought look no further than this thread here....

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1202952


Re: Becoming An Elite Team

Unread postby Thugger HBC on Sat Aug 25, 2012 5:11 pm
There are some things that have to take place to becoming elite......

1) Maximize the training camp.... while there are examples against this, the majority of championships are won from teams whose core has been together from the start, and stays together....from bonding, knowing roles, having a team oriented focus.

2) Form a sticking identity....with this team imo, the staple will be defense, low scoring, post offense in half court sets.

3) Taking care of the regular season...win the bulk of the games you should, compete and grab some wins off equal or greater competition.

4) Going into the playoffs as healthy as possible, even if it requires letting players take games off to do so.

Even with these though, it still takes alot of luck and patience, as it doesn't usually happen in the first year.


Notice in AUGUST i was saying the similar things then that i am now....

or check here......

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1216284&p=33784755#p33784755

The list goes long though, you have to get your google on. :lol:
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http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1263590&start=540
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Post#62 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:00 pm by sutrick

I can honestly say that I don't know what to think of this Knicks team. I didn't expect they would have this good of a record at this point. Huge question marks to be answered in the second half:

1. Who is the real Ray Felton? I've seen great Felton, OK Felton and crap Felton over the last three years. This year he started great and regressed before getting injured. Knicks need something better than OK Felton to be a real contender.
2. Melo has evolved back into what he has always been. Iso and poor defense. I guess if its in your DNA, you can't sustain change. Probably too much to expect him to be the Melo in November but he needs to focus on defense more and helping ball movement. Perhaps he just needs to play the PF position.
3. JR of old or the new JR from Nov/Dec of this season? With Felton perhaps he won't feel the need to create shots so much because he can't help but overdue it. Like Nate Robinson, making a few shots early may not always be best for the team.
4. Will Amare ever be able to play the 5, play any defense or be a force on the glass? If he could then we could play small ball more. Amare could play 5 when Tyson sits and play 4 when Melo sits. If done right then that could take up 20-24 minutes a game. If Amare can't get his act together in the next 20 games or so then he may never.
5. Novak needs open looks and he isn't getting them anymore. No sense playing him if he isn't going to take a shot every couple of minutes.

There are only 5 legitimate teams in the East and the Knicks are certainly one of them. The key is not to fall to the #4 or #5 seed so that the first round opponent is an easy match and the Heat are the conference finals match-up. Right now there is very little separating the Nets, Pacers, Bulls and Knicks.
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Post#63 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:19 pm by blumatic

My take:

The Knicks have not peaked yet. Which is a good thing. I have been very upset by some of these losses because against good teams they have come in bunches. It hasnt been win a few and lose a few.

Melo, Amare, Tyson, Felton, Shump, JR are our top six players and have yet to play together and and have yet been fully recovered from injuries.

I hope the injuries to Camby and Wallace can be recovered. I do not like Amare at the 5. Like I said he is not a defensive specialist. If we do use him there, Shump and Brewer have to be on the floor at the same time.

Tyson:

A beast. To me he is back to his DPOY form. Maybe even better. He has become a rebounding machine. He gets boxed out but is very effective with the tap out. #5 in the league in rebounding.

Amare:

Contrary to narrative, Amare's defense is much improved. He is not a liability. He wont ever be a defensive stalworth but he is not the liability he used to be. He still has ways to go but he has become adequate. Only issue is the tick tack fould and the rebounding. If he starts hitting the glass it will be huge. He has made it his focus to devlop and post game and play defense. He is looking like a real power forward. Still ways to go on defense

Carmelo:

Im going to be the harshest on him because he is teh franchise. He has to play defense more intensely. Not only because we need it but because he needs to inspire his team to up their play on that end. That to me is one of the things holding this team back. This team takes on his personality. When he passes, they all pass. When he Ds up, they all D up. When he chucks, they start chucking. When he miss free throws, we all do. He has to play harder on that side of the ball and inspire. And I demand that from him and Woody needs to as well.

Felton:

Warrior. I think his hand injuries have really affected his shooting. Once in a while he'll stop running the team and chuck. But for the most part he's been really good. His defense is not stalworth kind but he competes. His foot speed is so key to our offense. He's the fastest guy on the team.

JR Smith:

Aside from shooting, he is doing alot of great things on the court, his rebounding is incredible. When he is in playmaker mode our offense is great to watch. Chuck mode like Melo.....When Melo plays a certain way, JR follows

Shump:

Too Soon. But good things.


Woody:

I like him a lot. He has his flaws. He can draw up plays out of timeouts really well. I just wish he had the ability to calm his team down and and preach poise. Tyson getting techs every other game. Melo getting techs.

I still have hope that health will help us out alot. But the most important thing Melo playing hard defense to inspire his team. It doesnt have to be all game. He needs his energy on offense too. But for a 4 to 5 minute stretch he should be locked in and make plays on defense to elevate his teams play.
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Post#64 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Jan 23, 2013 5:35 pm by Manhattan Project

seren wrote:You can't expect to win a championship with JR being the second most important player on your squad.


Absolutely right, but it's more of a sign of how good JR has been for us for a nice stretch. I think it's interchangeable of our second best player, any given night it can be a number of people. Chandler has his games in which he can post a 20/10 line, Amar'e down the stretch can make a big time impact. There are nights in which JR is hot, there's no stopping that. Felton when he's creating, hitting his shots is huge.

Your right in the sense that we would like a clear cut second option, but I don't think it's a bad thing to have a number of players that can step up. The problem lies is when no one does and everyone just stares at Melo to bail them out.
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Post#65 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:29 pm by GONYK

One play Woodson.

That's all I ask. One set play.
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Post#66 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:31 pm by Thugger HBC

GONYK wrote:One play Woodson.

That's all I ask. One set play.

This thread is gonna get bumped alot. :lol:
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http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1263590&start=540
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Post#67 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:33 pm by GONYK

Thugger HBC wrote:
GONYK wrote:One play Woodson.

That's all I ask. One set play.

This thread is gonna get bumped alot. :lol:


By me especially :D

No point in saying the same sh*t after every loss. I got things to do
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Post#68 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sat Jan 26, 2013 9:57 pm by Thugger HBC

GONYK wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:
GONYK wrote:One play Woodson.

That's all I ask. One set play.

This thread is gonna get bumped alot. :lol:


By me especially :D

No point in saying the same sh*t after every loss. I got things to do

For real, when the team loses chances are the true reason is in the OP.
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http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1263590&start=540
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Post#69 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sat Jan 26, 2013 10:44 pm by blue and orange

two words "WE SUCK" not saying to throw in the towel and that our season is over or that we cant turn it around just calling it like it is right now We Suck.
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Post#70 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sun Jan 27, 2013 12:09 am by The Infamous1

Kidd is a scrub At this point and Felton is an overrated chucker,the Knicks need a PG in the worst way.

But The success of this team in the playoffs mainly depends on if Amare consistently score 18-20 PPG a night to take the pressure of Melo offensively. Dude has been a no show in the playoffs the last 2 years. You can't count on Shump, jr, Felton,Chandler to be that guy. It has to be Amare
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Post#71 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sun Jan 27, 2013 7:51 am by seren

We are not a horrible team. We are clearly a 50 win team. But there is a huge gap between us and championship contenders. We gotta upgrade the guard position to more consistent players. We gotta get more rebounding.
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Post#72 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:42 am by Falstaffxx

By the way, it's exactly midseason right now.
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Post#73 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Sun Jan 27, 2013 10:46 am by ORANGEandBLUE

Our struggles as of late fall squarely on Melo's shoulders. He is rushing his shots in the paint and the passing we saw from him in November has fallen off a cliff. The reason we aren't getting the same ball movement is because Melo is either kicking it out before the double has committed, or forcing a shot when the double has committed. He has to get back to sucking the double team and then making the pass to the weak side.

And we need to go to him consistently, especially when he's at the 4. Lately a lot of Melo's minutes at the 4 have involved JR on the floor, and JR seems to see himself as Melo's equal who gets to dominate every other possession.
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Post#74 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:58 am by KingzAndQueenz

With Felton back, there's no reason we shouldn't win our next 6 games

Magic
Bucks
Kings
Pistons
@Wizards
@timberwolves

Hell we may even catch a break against the clippers if cp3 is still out
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Post#75 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:14 am by Abe_505

Knicker23 wrote:I'm just not sure what this team is. They have lost all identity they had.

And what's worse.. A large part of early success has to be tied to 3s falling at high rate -- which can't simply be "got back on track" with practice... So it makes you question, was THAT the aberration, and this play is more along the lines of normal play for this team?

There are many other factors; injuries, Felton out etc.... But that doesn't excuse a lot of the spark this team had out of the gate that have been nonexistent; starts.. defense intensity.. offensive efficiency... At what point do we wonder whether the defense will ever return to what it was? Injuries, schedule, etc isn't an excuse..

The longer this drags out, the more you have to think what they are now is more a product of what they are... Their not great on defense, not great on offense... but have a very good player in Melo, and a team good enough surrounding him that can put themselves in a position to win on most nights...

Which is still night and day from blowing teams out by +10 each game.. Which wasn't obviously going to be sustained.. but outside of Melo putting up huge numbers early on, this team doesn't look like it can blow anyone out.


Damn homie this is pretty straight for you. I gold star this post. I hope it wasn't written in a sad state of mind.
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Post#76 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:05 am by seren

Trade JR while he still has some value.
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Post#77 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:36 pm by GONYK

:thinking:
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Post#78 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:37 pm by Smokey9782

seren wrote:Trade JR while he still has some value.


Too late.
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Post#79 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:44 pm by Striders

Striders wrote:Defense and rebounding isn't there. Going to kill us in the playoffs if we don't address them. Simple as that. Not even necessarily to Miami, either. If Indiana figures it out, or if Chicago gets Rose, we would be in trouble.

Not sure Woodson has the creativity or the x's/o's knowledge when it comes to running the offense, either. Way, way, too often we're not utilizing the PnR correctly, or we just ISO our way to a win.


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Post#80 Re: "State of the Knicks" Mid-seaso
Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:44 pm by kNicksGmen

seren wrote:Trade JR while he still has some value.

lol in nba2k13 association mode you could get great return for JR/felton or kidd. one year i got irving for jr and felton (before they bumped irving's rating up)
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