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Chicago and Indiana are better

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Post#201 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:53 am by Thugger HBC

frizzledizzle wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:If those teams were better, they'd have the better record.

You are what your record says you are.

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This is just not a good argument.

If that's true, why did the #8 seed Knicks end up in the championship?

You also have the Nuggets beating the Sonics and the Warriors beating the Mavs.

You also have to factor in the fact they don't play the same schedule and also injuries. I'm sorry but I can't believe people act the Bulls and Pacers wouldn't have a better record with Rose and Granger. The Bulls only had the NBA's record the past two season with Rose and are winning with Nate freakin Robinson who has been cut and bounced around. If Rose and Granger return and both teams are healthy for the playoffs, they're a much better team than their record shows. Actually the Pacers started off 4-7/10-11 and have since gone 29-14/23-10. That's basically 70%(69.7%) in their last 33 games. And if you are what your record says, I guess the Pacers will beat the #1Heat/#2Knicks/#5Bulls in the playoffs since they're 6-1 against them. Is that how it works?

You do realize all teams start the playoffs at zero right? their regular season record doesn't carry over.

Right now the Knicks have played like poop for two straight months and the Pacers Bulls and Nets still haven't caught them.

Now when they do, then it shall adjust.

But for right now, you are what your record says you are.

You dont know the difference between better team and better matchup.
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Post#202 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:33 am by Leaguepass

It's truly laughable how some are downplaying other teams. The Pacers were 3rd last season...I'm not a believer of teams ending up 3rd by coincidence over the course of 66 games. Still there were many fans laughing at them and saying they suck. This season George is twice the player he was last season, Stephenson has become a big asset and Granger hasn't even played yet. That team is huge,plays tough physical defense and contests everything out there on the perimeter. Controlling the boards is almost impossible against that type of length and size but on top of that they have very good shooters from 1-4 as well as a very energetic strong bench. When guys like Augustin,Stephenson,Hansbrough and Mahinmi come off the bench you can legitimately call them deep as well.
George,Granger and West at the 2,3 and 4 is tall,strong,physical and as tough as it gets really and on top of that all of them are good shooters as well. If the Knicks dare to put Kidd,Shumpert and Anthony against that throughout a playoff series we'll get destroyed and dismantled.

It's interesting how the 3 best defensive teams in the league (Indiana,Chicago and Memphis) are teams that play with a traditional Center, traditional PF, traditional SF, traditional SG and smart Pg.
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Post#203 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:36 am by frizzledizzle

j4remi wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Why do you guys watch the NBA if yall think it's rigged?

I love yall but i have never seen a fanbase whine about calls so much, as if the entire league doesn't have that issue.


You must have missed the C's fans and Thunder fans after they were respectively jobbed. We watch because of the rare moments when talent transcends, but if you don't think there's referee bias and you think this is just noise...I think you've got blinders on. I'm not even just talking about the Knicks here, there are examples in every series the Heat were involved in and there's plenty in other seasons as well...D-Wade vs Dallas is the most obvious travesty in the last decade. You thought those games were officiated fairly?


Agreed 100%

The Heats championship over the Mavs was clearly the doing of the refs. I always thought it was the most blatantly rigged championship I had ever watched. And the Blazers-Lakers and Kings-Lakers which Donaghy admitted were rigged, the most obvious rigged games of all times.

The Mavs were going to go up 3-0 in the series until a bunch of phantom fouls were called down the stretch in game 3. The Mavs were up 93-88 with 1:47 left in the game. The Heat attempted 8 free throws in that final 1:47 to win by 2. Wade went on to break Jordan's record in a single playoff or championship/playoff series, don't remember which, to set the record for most free throws attempted. The refs absolutely handed that championship to the Heat by calling constant phantom fouls in favor of Wade. The Mavs had won 90-80 and 115-90 in the first two games. They lost the series 4-2 and three of the losses were...
Game3: 98-96,
Game5: 101-100(OT) and
Game6: 95-92.
The free throw disparity...
Game3: Mavs-18/26 Heat-20/34
Game5: Mavs 21/25 Heat-32/49
Game6: Mavs-19/23 Heat-23/37

So as far attempts go in those 2pt, 1pt and 3pt losses, the Heat were +8, +24 and +14 in attempts. Remember though when they were plus +8, they shot 8 attempts in the final 1:47 down 5. They made 2 more free throw attempts than the Mavs and won by 2, thus they won by free throws. When they won by 3 and attempted +14 free throws, they made 4 more free throws so again, they won off those free throws. And you didn't need anyone telling you that when you're offered 49 points at the line, you're tied at the end of regulation and win by 1, that the game was rigged. That series was absolutely rigged.

As for the Blazers and Lakers... Game 7.... Blazers were 73-58 with 11 minutes left in the game. The Lakers went on to outscore the Blazers 31-11 in the final 11 minutes to win 89-85. All the while, they shot 37 free throws to the Blazers 16.

The Kings and Lakers... Game 6... the Kings were up 3-2 in the series and the game was tied going into the 4th quarter. The Lakers would go on to attempt 27 free throws in the 4th quarter while Divac and Pollard picked up their 6th foul to foul out without even touching anyone. The Lakers went on to win 106-102 only outscoring the Kings by 4 in the 4th quarter even with the 27 free throw attempts.

So there you have it... two 4th quarters where teams won by 4 attempting 21 and 27 more free throws which is an entire quarters worth of points just taking free(points) throws. And the Heat only won by 1 on an entire half worth of free(points) throws with 49 attempts. You can't possibly tell me the refs didn't make sure the Lakers and Heat won those series, they absolutely did.
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Post#204 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:40 am by frizzledizzle

NYK_89 wrote:Guys Refferee bias is what you all want to call Superstar calls and "Home town calls" when Lebron is playing he is THE superstar and Wade is probably the #2 "superstar" on the court. Those are massive problems with the game don't get me wrong but its not some conspiracy, Game 1 against Miami is a perfect example they were at home and had Lebron, why on earth would they be rigging the game for a 30+ point blowout... Thats about as bad for the league as a whole as it gets.



I disagree with you that there is no conspiracy as I think some playoff games are blatantly rigged but adding on to bias of superstars and the home team, it also applies to larger markets vs. smaller markets. New York, Boston, Los Angeles, Chicago etc. more often than not will get favorable calls against teams like Minnesota, Charlotte, Milwaukee etc.
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Post#205 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:21 am by TKF

AggO wrote:Noah is better than Chandler.


true
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Post#206 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:25 am by TKF

Leaguepass wrote:It's truly laughable how some are downplaying other teams. The Pacers were 3rd last season...I'm not a believer of teams ending up 3rd by coincidence over the course of 66 games. Still there were many fans laughing at them and saying they suck. This season George is twice the player he was last season, Stephenson has become a big asset and Granger hasn't even played yet. That team is huge,plays tough physical defense and contests everything out there on the perimeter. Controlling the boards is almost impossible against that type of length and size but on top of that they have very good shooters from 1-4 as well as a very energetic strong bench. When guys like Augustin,Stephenson,Hansbrough and Mahinmi come off the bench you can legitimately call them deep as well.
George,Granger and West at the 2,3 and 4 is tall,strong,physical and as tough as it gets really and on top of that all of them are good shooters as well. If the Knicks dare to put Kidd,Shumpert and Anthony against that throughout a playoff series we'll get destroyed and dismantled.

It's interesting how the 3 best defensive teams in the league (Indiana,Chicago and Memphis) are teams that play with a traditional Center, traditional PF, traditional SF, traditional SG and smart Pg.


I don't get it either... The Pacers are very, very good... I said this last year, they will be a scary team next year. They seem to be hitting their stride and they still dont' have granger back, and Hibbert isn't even playing at the allstar level he was last year. I am sure the heat do not want to see that team at all.

the knicks have played well to start the season, but I think a lot of the things that were going well for us were not sustainable, notably the three point shooting.. It is hard to beat good teams when you don't rebound and you are near last in Points in the paint....
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Post#207 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:41 pm by Woodsanity

If Rose and Granger comes back were screwed. We struggle with these teams as it is.... Even without Rose and Granger these teams have stomped us in regular season matchups. Our loss against Indiana was our worst loss of the season. We were clowned, embarrassed, beat the hell up and we just took it. An embarrassment.

If we don't pick things up were screwed. Right now were just an averagish defensive team that is good at shooting 3s....
twix2500 wrote:If Lebron went to NY and Melo to Miami, Melo would have a trophy and Lebron would not.

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:The more I watch basketball, the more I realize that Kobe, in his absolute prime (2006-2008), was a top 2 player of all-time, only second to Jordan.
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Post#208 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:44 pm by Woodsanity

frizzledizzle wrote:
j4remi wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:Why do you guys watch the NBA if yall think it's rigged?

I love yall but i have never seen a fanbase whine about calls so much, as if the entire league doesn't have that issue.


You must have missed the C's fans and Thunder fans after they were respectively jobbed. We watch because of the rare moments when talent transcends, but if you don't think there's referee bias and you think this is just noise...I think you've got blinders on. I'm not even just talking about the Knicks here, there are examples in every series the Heat were involved in and there's plenty in other seasons as well...D-Wade vs Dallas is the most obvious travesty in the last decade. You thought those games were officiated fairly?


Agreed 100%

The Heats championship over the Mavs was clearly the doing of the refs. I always thought it was the most blatantly rigged championship I had ever watched. And the Blazers-Lakers and Kings-Lakers which Donaghy admitted were rigged, the most obvious rigged games of all times.

The Mavs were going to go up 3-0 in the series until a bunch of phantom fouls were called down the stretch in game 3. The Mavs were up 93-88 with 1:47 left in the game. The Heat attempted 8 free throws in that final 1:47 to win by 2. Wade went on to break Jordan's record in a single playoff or championship/playoff series, don't remember which, to set the record for most free throws attempted. The refs absolutely handed that championship to the Heat by calling constant phantom fouls in favor of Wade. The Mavs had won 90-80 and 115-90 in the first two games. They lost the series 4-2 and three of the losses were...
Game3: 98-96,
Game5: 101-100(OT) and
Game6: 95-92.
The free throw disparity...
Game3: Mavs-18/26 Heat-20/34
Game5: Mavs 21/25 Heat-32/49
Game6: Mavs-19/23 Heat-23/37

So as far attempts go in those 2pt, 1pt and 3pt losses, the Heat were +8, +24 and +14 in attempts. Remember though when they were plus +8, they shot 8 attempts in the final 1:47 down 5. They made 2 more free throw attempts than the Mavs and won by 2, thus they won by free throws. When they won by 3 and attempted +14 free throws, they made 4 more free throws so again, they won off those free throws. And you didn't need anyone telling you that when you're offered 49 points at the line, you're tied at the end of regulation and win by 1, that the game was rigged. That series was absolutely rigged.

As for the Blazers and Lakers... Game 7.... Blazers were 73-58 with 11 minutes left in the game. The Lakers went on to outscore the Blazers 31-11 in the final 11 minutes to win 89-85. All the while, they shot 37 free throws to the Blazers 16.

The Kings and Lakers... Game 6... the Kings were up 3-2 in the series and the game was tied going into the 4th quarter. The Lakers would go on to attempt 27 free throws in the 4th quarter while Divac and Pollard picked up their 6th foul to foul out without even touching anyone. The Lakers went on to win 106-102 only outscoring the Kings by 4 in the 4th quarter even with the 27 free throw attempts.

So there you have it... two 4th quarters where teams won by 4 attempting 21 and 27 more free throws which is an entire quarters worth of points just taking free(points) throws. And the Heat only won by 1 on an entire half worth of free(points) throws with 49 attempts. You can't possibly tell me the refs didn't make sure the Lakers and Heat won those series, they absolutely did.

Wow nice summary. It definitely was a shame the Mavs and Kings got jobbed by refs. Good thing Dirk won it all and got revenge but poor Kings....
twix2500 wrote:If Lebron went to NY and Melo to Miami, Melo would have a trophy and Lebron would not.

Tiesto_Lakers wrote:The more I watch basketball, the more I realize that Kobe, in his absolute prime (2006-2008), was a top 2 player of all-time, only second to Jordan.
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Post#209 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 9:52 pm by 23-7

uhhhhhh.....?
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Post#210 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:01 pm by Sprewell4Three

Indiana younger, quicker, more athletic

If we want to compete with them we have to start our best 5 players
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Post#211 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:04 pm by PicheDreams

Boozer Nate robinson and Richard Hamilton are better?..

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Post#212 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 10:06 pm by 23-7

Huh?
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Post#213 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Fri Feb 22, 2013 11:57 pm by Nuntius

Thugger HBC wrote:If those teams were better, they'd have the better record.

You are what your record says you are.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


Do you still hold that point of view?
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
To bathe in the blood of man
Mankind..."

She Painted Fire Across the Skyline, Part 3
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Post#214 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:01 am by Thugger HBC

Nuntius wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:If those teams were better, they'd have the better record.

You are what your record says you are.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


Do you still hold that point of view?

why wouldn't I? do they both have a better record?
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Post#215 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:17 am by Nuntius

Thugger HBC wrote:
Nuntius wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:If those teams were better, they'd have the better record.

You are what your record says you are.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2


Do you still hold that point of view?

why wouldn't I? do they both have a better record?


The Pacers do.
"No wolf shall keep his secrets, no bird shall dance the skyline
And I am left with nothing but an oath that gleams like a sword
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Mankind..."

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Post#216 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:18 am by Thugger HBC

Played more games too, that's why they have more losses.
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Post#217 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:22 am by Nuntius

Thugger HBC wrote:Played more games too, that's why they have more losses.


So, that means that they will have more rest towards the end of the season :wink:

It doesn't change the fact that the Pacers are 13 games over .500 while the Knicks are 12 games over .500
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Mankind..."

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Post#218 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:25 am by Thugger HBC

Fair point, i expect this to contnue all year.
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Post#219 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:28 am by daschysta

Records tend to fluctuate. However trends can be telling, Indy started rough, largely because they didn't expect Granger to be out at all, let alone for more than half the season and it took time to adjust, after their 4-7 start they've been elite though. Over the last 44:

SAS 34-10
OKC 32-12
Miami 32-12
LAC 31-13
Indiana 30-14
DEN 29-15
MEM 27-17


NYK- 23-21

Curiously Indy has the 5th best record in the NBA over this period, consistent with their 5th best finish last season. Granger is the X-Factor though, as they had him last year and he hasn't played yet this year.
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Post#220 Re: Chicago and Indiana are better
Sun Jun 2, 2013 7:28 am by Leaguepass

Bump.....just to remind some guys....this "playoff run" and it's ending vs. Indy was very easy to predict if you aren't still brainwashed by that small ball bull.
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