Chicago and Indiana are better

[fdr2012]

Huh, what?Why should one take that out?

Because that's my argument - other than against us, they have been terrible against .500+ teams.

[Leaguepass]

Huh, what?Why should one take that out?

Because that's my argument - other than against us, they have been terrible against .500+ teams.

And how does it fit in an argument/thread where we are mainly discussing the Bulls/Pacers and the notion that they are better and might beat us in the playoffs?Why would you take out the head to head in such an argument?Makes no sense IMO.

[Butch718]

The standings speak for themselves. The are the 5th seed in the East. We are the second. I'm not sure at what you're trying to say here. The definition of "scrubs" is subjective. I define Deng as "scrub". He's probably an above average player in the league, but I hate his game and I don't think he's a particularly talented basketball player.

If you take out the 3 games they won against us, they are 7-15 against .500 teams. That's not a good record. 30% against .500 teams constitutes "losing to just about every team" in my book.

Luol Deng is a solid player that plays very good defense. He's the type of role player that you want on a contending team. You don't have to be the most talented player to be a highly effective one. Especially if you're on the court busting your ass every night on the defensive end.

You're not sure what I'm trying to say? You really can't be that daft man. So what if they're 5th in the east? The Bullls are still 9 games over .500 minus their best player. It's not like we have a winning record against .500 teams either. We've also been playing barely above average ball since our 18-6 start.

And you keep saying if you take out the 3 games against us. Stop it man. Just stop it. It's like you don't want to count those games simply because it doesn't fit your narrative of the Bulls not being a good basketball team. Which you specifically stated in your previous posts.

And at you backtracking on your previous post by redefining what constitutes losing to just about every good team in your book.

[JustaKnickFan]

I see what you did there. They're a playoff team now. Not just a bunch of scrubs. Gotcha.

Add Golden State and Utah as .500 plus teams that they've beaten.

Didn't you just post this earlier?

The standings speak for themselves. The are the 5th seed in the East. We are the second. I'm not sure at what you're trying to say here. The definition of "scrubs" is subjective. I define Deng as "scrub". He's probably an above average player in the league, but I hate his game and I don't think he's a particularly talented basketball player.

Way to contradict your previous posts. I thought they lost to just about every .500 team other than us? I thought they got torn apart by any and every decent team? You do realize all those teams you listed that the Bulls have beaten constitute the majority of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. The only team with an above .500 record in the East that they haven't beaten is Indiana.

Anyway, I can't wait to see you backtrack out of this one.

If you take out the 3 games they won against us, they are 7-15 against .500 teams. That's not a good record. 30% against .500 teams constitutes "losing to just about every team" in my book.

7/15 is 47 percent if you're rounding up.

Anyway, I think the Knicks are more talented than either, and have a chance to beat both if they manage to start playing good enough defense to make those teams struggle to score.

It's on Woodson now, to make the Knicks a better defensive team.

[Butch718]

There are plenty of well coached teams with respectful records. Boston is also well coached and has a respectful record (only 3 games behind Chicago). Why aren't we talking about them? People here are obsessed with the Bulls and for some reason think they are better than their record, even though their record against .500 teams points out that they are WORSE than their record.

I'm not going to be "objective" about the Bulls, just like I'm not "objective" about Al-Qaeda. I'm also not "objective" about Adam Lanza and a few other things. Sorry, I thought this was the Knicks forum. If you're really 30 and have been a Knicks fan through the 90s and still can't understand this, then there's not much more I can say.

I admire how you constantly backtrack and talk out of your ass. You really are a bullsh*ter. The last paragraph of your posts is especially comical.

BTW, the only reason why we're discussing the Bulls is because I was specifically calling you out on what you were saying about them. That's why I wasn't bringing up other teams.

[TheToothFairy]

You are what ur record Says

Knicks have had a slew of injuries too

[Falstaffxx]

What's a "respectful record?"

[Butch718]

@fdr: The way you argue and write is very disrespectful. This is a very sane thread/argument and the arguments that were brought about by different guys in this thread are all valid and brought up mostly in a respectful manner. You should do the same instead of ranting and calling out others and their loyalty.

In all fairness I was being insulting and condescending towards him. Perhaps I shouldn't have, but I can't help myself sometimes when it comes to posters like him.

[SwaggedOut30]

Bulls are a different team with Rosé, they may even better without him cause its more of a team concept without him. I don't feel he will be the same player (Shump) what does that mean? Rose will be a jump shooting point guard who lost a step. That doesn't scare me at all. Indiana is good as well, but when Granger returns they are a different team as well. Nothing different then us, just healthy! Each team has their lows and peaks we had our peak early, and are having our lows now. I swear we were better off starting the season off losing cuz of depressing threads like this. To the OP, you suck man.

[Butch718]

Bulls are a different team with Rosé, they may even better without him cause its more of a team concept without him. I don't feel he will be the same player (Shump) what does that mean? Rose will be a jump shooting point guard who lost a step. That doesn't scare me at all. Indiana is good as well, but when Granger returns they are a different team as well. Nothing different then us, just healthy! Each team has their lows and peaks we had our peak early, and are having our lows now. I swear we were better off starting the season off losing cuz of depressing threads like this. To the OP, you suck man.

The Bulls are not better off without their best player. That's like all the posters last year that stated the team was better without Melo when they went on a 7 game win streak without him. It simply isn't true. The reason why they lost to Philly last year was because they had no one on the team that could create their own shot or generate enough offense after Rose went down. They got away with that during the regular season, but the playoffs are a different story.

But I do agree that it's going to take him a while to regain his old form. That doesn't mean that he isn't going to help.

[moocow007]

Theres actually a different dynamic for the Pacers when Granger is playing and when hes not. The ball moves better and they play with more energy...without Granger...at least thats my take having watched them the past few years.

Both the Bulls and Pacers do play tough and physical...like the Celtics. That is something that the Knicks will have to rachet up before playoff time or they could get blitzed quick. Wallace and Camby are keys to that. And that is also really the biggest reasons ive wanted Andersen, West and Martin.

[Leaguepass]

Good to know that the same guy that says "I suck" states that the Bulls are better without Rose. That seems to make a lot of sense because they don't have any other guy on their team that can create their own shot?
Also correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Bulls still beating the Sixers up until Noah got injured as well?Weren't they basically without Rose AND Noah the last couple games vs. Philly?

What would the Knicks look like without Melo and Chandler?

And Indiana is better off without Granger?Why?Because Granger is a strong defender,team player,doesn't hog the ball but is a very good shooter?How is a team many claim to be offensively challenged better off without their best scorer?

[Leaguepass]

Theres actually a different dynamic for the Pacers when Granger is playing and when hes not. The ball moves better and they play with more energy...without Granger...at least thats my take having watched them the past few years.

Both the Bulls and Pacers do play tough and physical...like the Celtics. That is something that the Knicks will have to rachet up before playoff time or they could get blitzed quick. Wallace and Camby are keys to that. And that is also really the biggest reasons ive wanted Andersen, West and Martin.

The dynamic with Indy has changed due to George developing into an all-star and terrific allround player,Hill replacing Collison fulltime as a starter (Hill is a very smart player and strong shooter), and Stephenson playing a terrific season. Granger is only gonna make them deeper,bigger,stronger and more dangerous. Actually the combination of Young,Stephenson,Granger and George at the swing positions is VERY VERY tough to handle due to their size,defense,unselfishness and ability to score in a variety of ways. The only reason I feel like the Knicks can still take down Indy is because we'll hopefully have HCA and Indy doesn't have that lightning quick PG or small guard that can consistantly break down our defense....

[Butch718]

Theres actually a different dynamic for the Pacers when Granger is playing and when hes not. The ball moves better and they play with more energy...without Granger...at least thats my take having watched them the past few years.

Both the Bulls and Pacers do play tough and physical...like the Celtics. That is something that the Knicks will have to rachet up before playoff time or they could get blitzed quick. Wallace and Camby are keys to that. And that is also really the biggest reasons ive wanted Andersen, West and Martin.

If Sheed and Camby are the keys to the Knicks ratcheting up, this team is in serious trouble come playoff time. Especially when those two guys are injury prone dinosaurs.

[SuperflyKnick]

The ultimate downfall for this team will be the coach... The team is a reflection of there coach and in our case he is a moron and has the track record to prove it. He has all the talent in the world on this team but yet fails to use it correctly... He sticks with his favorites which to our doom will be to much Jason Kidd and jr smith, only coach who wud run out a lineup of amare and Novak ... He refuses to adjust , example getting our asses handed to us by the bulls 3 x the same way. His dumb stupid starting lineups have been killing us but refuses to change stating we went 8-6 with that... News flash moron u played all but 2 teams with winning records and ur ass was handed to u by them and to make things worse u lose to the raptors and wizards... Great job coach u will bring nothing to this team but meaningless regular season wins against mediocre competition

[br7knicks]

ok?

[br7knicks]

Granger is far from Indiana's best player. If they were smart they would trade him as soon as possible before people realize that. Their offense will stay miserable.

And Rose will not be the same player he was, at least not this season.

he is not far from their best player, by far

[clipse375]

The ultimate downfall for this team will be the coach... The team is a reflection of there coach and in our case he is a moron and has the track record to prove it. He has all the talent in the world on this team but yet fails to use it correctly... He sticks with his favorites which to our doom will be to much Jason Kidd and jr smith, only coach who wud run out a lineup of amare and Novak ... He refuses to adjust , example getting our asses handed to us by the bulls 3 x the same way. His dumb stupid starting lineups have been killing us but refuses to change stating we went 8-6 with that... News flash moron u played all but 2 teams with winning records and ur ass was handed to u by them and to make things worse u lose to the raptors and wizards... Great job coach u will bring nothing to this team but meaningless regular season wins against mediocre competition

Pathetic.

[moocow007]

Good to know that the same guy that says "I suck" states that the Bulls are better without Rose. That seems to make a lot of sense because they don't have any other guy on their team that can create their own shot?
Also correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the Bulls still beating the Sixers up until Noah got injured as well?Weren't they basically without Rose AND Noah the last couple games vs. Philly?

What would the Knicks look like without Melo and Chandler?

And Indiana is better off without Granger?Why?Because Granger is a strong defender,team player,doesn't hog the ball but is a very good shooter?How is a team many claim to be offensively challenged better off without their best scorer?

Granger isn't really a strong defender though. Team player? Based on what? And one of the biggest gripes from Pacer fans about Granger has been he hogs the ball. But yes, it's kinda outlandish to say that they are better off without him though. He brings offense and is their best offensive player and all the defense in the world won't help if you can't score...especially come playoff time.

[Fat Kat]

You are what ur record Says

Knicks have had a slew of injuries too

Agreed. Never understood the point of these self deprecating threads.