Chicago and Indiana are better

[frizzledizzle]

I see what you did there. They're a playoff team now. Not just a bunch of scrubs. Gotcha.

Add Golden State and Utah as .500 plus teams that they've beaten.

Didn't you just post this earlier?

The standings speak for themselves. The are the 5th seed in the East. We are the second. I'm not sure at what you're trying to say here. The definition of "scrubs" is subjective. I define Deng as "scrub". He's probably an above average player in the league, but I hate his game and I don't think he's a particularly talented basketball player.

Way to contradict your previous posts. I thought they lost to just about every .500 team other than us? I thought they got torn apart by any and every decent team? You do realize all those teams you listed that the Bulls have beaten constitute the majority of the best teams in the Eastern Conference. The only team with an above .500 record in the East that they haven't beaten is Indiana.

Anyway, I can't wait to see you backtrack out of this one.

If you take out the 3 games they won against us, they are 7-15 against .500 teams. That's not a good record. 30% against .500 teams constitutes "losing to just about every team" in my book.

Huh, what?Why should one take that out?

You nailed it before when you asked how he is going to backtrack. He just alters stats to try and make his arguments sound better. Unfortunately for him, his arguments are terrible and his attempt at making a point is a constant failure. If you were debating him about the Heat or Thunder being the best team in the NBA, he'd probably comeback with "Well if you take away Lebron or Durant, they wouldn't be".

"You mean that 40-10 team??? Oh yeah, they're scrubs. If you take way these 40 wins, they'd be 0-10."

[frizzledizzle]

I'm not going to be "objective" about the Bulls, just like I'm not "objective" about Al-Qaeda. I'm also not "objective" about Adam Lanza and a few other things. Sorry, I thought this was the Knicks forum. If you're really 30 and have been a Knicks fan through the 90s and still can't understand this, then there's not much more I can say.

So you admit the stuff you're saying is stupid and you're only saying it because you don't like a team and refuse to acknowledge the truth. It's pretty sad when someone admits they're not being objective yet they continue to argue. That just means you admit you're not reasonable and your argument is dumb.

Huh, what?Why should one take that out?

Because that's my argument - other than against us, they have been terrible against .500+ teams.

Whaaaat???? lol!!!!

So you say the Bulls are scrubs and point out their record against .500 teams is terrible except against the Knicks. In other words, you believe the Knicks are scrubs and worse than the Bulls?

Sometimes it pays off being up in the middle of the night. I probably would have missed all of this otherwise, hilarious.

[frizzledizzle]

If you take out the 3 games they won against us, they are 7-15 against .500 teams. That's not a good record. 30% against .500 teams constitutes "losing to just about every team" in my book.

7/15 is 47 percent if you're rounding up.

Anyway, I think the Knicks are more talented than either, and have a chance to beat both if they manage to start playing good enough defense to make those teams struggle to score.

It's on Woodson now, to make the Knicks a better defensive team.

That's not accurate. 7-15 is not 7 divided by 15. It would be 7 divided by 22. Because they've won 7 of 22 games. But they've actually won 10.

[frizzledizzle]

If those teams were better, they'd have the better record.

You are what your record says you are.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

This is just not a good argument.

If that's true, why did the #8 seed Knicks end up in the championship?

You also have the Nuggets beating the Sonics and the Warriors beating the Mavs.

You also have to factor in the fact they don't play the same schedule and also injuries. I'm sorry but I can't believe people act the Bulls and Pacers wouldn't have a better record with Rose and Granger. The Bulls only had the NBA's record the past two season with Rose and are winning with Nate freakin Robinson who has been cut and bounced around. If Rose and Granger return and both teams are healthy for the playoffs, they're a much better team than their record shows. Actually the Pacers started off 4-7/10-11 and have since gone 29-14/23-10. That's basically 70%(69.7%) in their last 33 games. And if you are what your record says, I guess the Pacers will beat the #1Heat/#2Knicks/#5Bulls in the playoffs since they're 6-1 against them. Is that how it works?

[frizzledizzle]

Pacers can be a tough team, but don't see them with enough offense to be a real threat. And they don't have the kind of D the Bulls have, at least against the Knicks, so I can't say I'm all that threatened by them.

Bulls defense however is on another level when it comes to Knicks.. they just have our number. And if things remain as is when Rose gets back, they'll be tough.

Pacers defense is better than the Bulls...

#1 in points allowed
#1 in opponent field goal percentage
#1 in rebounds

[Thugger HBC]

If those teams were better, they'd have the better record.

You are what your record says you are.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

This is just not a good argument.

If that's true, why did the #8 seed Knicks end up in the championship?

You also have the Nuggets beating the Sonics and the Warriors beating the Mavs.

You also have to factor in the fact they don't play the same schedule and also injuries. I'm sorry but I can't believe people act the Bulls and Pacers wouldn't have a better record with Rose and Granger. The Bulls only had the NBA's record the past two season with Rose and are winning with Nate freakin Robinson who has been cut and bounced around. If Rose and Granger return and both teams are healthy for the playoffs, they're a much better team than their record shows. Actually the Pacers started off 4-7/10-11 and have since gone 29-14/23-10. That's basically 70%(69.7%) in their last 33 games. And if you are what your record says, I guess the Pacers will beat the #1Heat/#2Knicks/#5Bulls in the playoffs since they're 6-1 against them. Is that how it works?

You do realize all teams start the playoffs at zero right? their regular season record doesn't carry over.

Right now the Knicks have played like poop for two straight months and the Pacers Bulls and Nets still haven't caught them.

Now when they do, then it shall adjust.

But for right now, you are what your record says you are.

You dont know the difference between better team and better matchup.

[Leaguepass]

It's truly laughable how some are downplaying other teams. The Pacers were 3rd last season...I'm not a believer of teams ending up 3rd by coincidence over the course of 66 games. Still there were many fans laughing at them and saying they suck. This season George is twice the player he was last season, Stephenson has become a big asset and Granger hasn't even played yet. That team is huge,plays tough physical defense and contests everything out there on the perimeter. Controlling the boards is almost impossible against that type of length and size but on top of that they have very good shooters from 1-4 as well as a very energetic strong bench. When guys like Augustin,Stephenson,Hansbrough and Mahinmi come off the bench you can legitimately call them deep as well.
George,Granger and West at the 2,3 and 4 is tall,strong,physical and as tough as it gets really and on top of that all of them are good shooters as well. If the Knicks dare to put Kidd,Shumpert and Anthony against that throughout a playoff series we'll get destroyed and dismantled.

It's interesting how the 3 best defensive teams in the league (Indiana,Chicago and Memphis) are teams that play with a traditional Center, traditional PF, traditional SF, traditional SG and smart Pg.

[frizzledizzle]

Why do you guys watch the NBA if yall think it's rigged?

I love yall but i have never seen a fanbase whine about calls so much, as if the entire league doesn't have that issue.

You must have missed the C's fans and Thunder fans after they were respectively jobbed. We watch because of the rare moments when talent transcends, but if you don't think there's referee bias and you think this is just noise...I think you've got blinders on. I'm not even just talking about the Knicks here, there are examples in every series the Heat were involved in and there's plenty in other seasons as well...D-Wade vs Dallas is the most obvious travesty in the last decade. You thought those games were officiated fairly?

Agreed 100%

The Heats championship over the Mavs was clearly the doing of the refs. I always thought it was the most blatantly rigged championship I had ever watched. And the Blazers-Lakers and Kings-Lakers which Donaghy admitted were rigged, the most obvious rigged games of all times.

The Mavs were going to go up 3-0 in the series until a bunch of phantom fouls were called down the stretch in game 3. The Mavs were up 93-88 with 1:47 left in the game. The Heat attempted 8 free throws in that final 1:47 to win by 2. Wade went on to break Jordan's record in a single playoff or championship/playoff series, don't remember which, to set the record for most free throws attempted. The refs absolutely handed that championship to the Heat by calling constant phantom fouls in favor of Wade. The Mavs had won 90-80 and 115-90 in the first two games. They lost the series 4-2 and three of the losses were...
Game3: 98-96,
Game5: 101-100(OT) and
Game6: 95-92.
The free throw disparity...
Game3: Mavs-18/26 Heat-20/34
Game5: Mavs 21/25 Heat-32/49
Game6: Mavs-19/23 Heat-23/37

So as far attempts go in those 2pt, 1pt and 3pt losses, the Heat were +8, +24 and +14 in attempts. Remember though when they were plus +8, they shot 8 attempts in the final 1:47 down 5. They made 2 more free throw attempts than the Mavs and won by 2, thus they won by free throws. When they won by 3 and attempted +14 free throws, they made 4 more free throws so again, they won off those free throws. And you didn't need anyone telling you that when you're offered 49 points at the line, you're tied at the end of regulation and win by 1, that the game was rigged. That series was absolutely rigged.

As for the Blazers and Lakers... Game 7.... Blazers were 73-58 with 11 minutes left in the game. The Lakers went on to outscore the Blazers 31-11 in the final 11 minutes to win 89-85. All the while, they shot 37 free throws to the Blazers 16.

The Kings and Lakers... Game 6... the Kings were up 3-2 in the series and the game was tied going into the 4th quarter. The Lakers would go on to attempt 27 free throws in the 4th quarter while Divac and Pollard picked up their 6th foul to foul out without even touching anyone. The Lakers went on to win 106-102 only outscoring the Kings by 4 in the 4th quarter even with the 27 free throw attempts.

So there you have it... two 4th quarters where teams won by 4 attempting 21 and 27 more free throws which is an entire quarters worth of points just taking free(points) throws. And the Heat only won by 1 on an entire half worth of free(points) throws with 49 attempts. You can't possibly tell me the refs didn't make sure the Lakers and Heat won those series, they absolutely did.

[frizzledizzle]

Guys Refferee bias is what you all want to call Superstar calls and "Home town calls" when Lebron is playing he is THE superstar and Wade is probably the #2 "superstar" on the court. Those are massive problems with the game don't get me wrong but its not some conspiracy, Game 1 against Miami is a perfect example they were at home and had Lebron, why on earth would they be rigging the game for a 30+ point blowout... Thats about as bad for the league as a whole as it gets.

I disagree with you that there is no conspiracy as I think some playoff games are blatantly rigged but adding on to bias of superstars and the home team, it also applies to larger markets vs. smaller markets. New York, Boston, Los Angeles, Chicago etc. more often than not will get favorable calls against teams like Minnesota, Charlotte, Milwaukee etc.

[TKF]

Noah is better than Chandler.

true

[TKF]

It's truly laughable how some are downplaying other teams. The Pacers were 3rd last season...I'm not a believer of teams ending up 3rd by coincidence over the course of 66 games. Still there were many fans laughing at them and saying they suck. This season George is twice the player he was last season, Stephenson has become a big asset and Granger hasn't even played yet. That team is huge,plays tough physical defense and contests everything out there on the perimeter. Controlling the boards is almost impossible against that type of length and size but on top of that they have very good shooters from 1-4 as well as a very energetic strong bench. When guys like Augustin,Stephenson,Hansbrough and Mahinmi come off the bench you can legitimately call them deep as well.
George,Granger and West at the 2,3 and 4 is tall,strong,physical and as tough as it gets really and on top of that all of them are good shooters as well. If the Knicks dare to put Kidd,Shumpert and Anthony against that throughout a playoff series we'll get destroyed and dismantled.

It's interesting how the 3 best defensive teams in the league (Indiana,Chicago and Memphis) are teams that play with a traditional Center, traditional PF, traditional SF, traditional SG and smart Pg.

I don't get it either... The Pacers are very, very good... I said this last year, they will be a scary team next year. They seem to be hitting their stride and they still dont' have granger back, and Hibbert isn't even playing at the allstar level he was last year. I am sure the heat do not want to see that team at all.

the knicks have played well to start the season, but I think a lot of the things that were going well for us were not sustainable, notably the three point shooting.. It is hard to beat good teams when you don't rebound and you are near last in Points in the paint....

[Woodsanity]

If Rose and Granger comes back were screwed. We struggle with these teams as it is.... Even without Rose and Granger these teams have stomped us in regular season matchups. Our loss against Indiana was our worst loss of the season. We were clowned, embarrassed, beat the hell up and we just took it. An embarrassment.

If we don't pick things up were screwed. Right now were just an averagish defensive team that is good at shooting 3s....

[Woodsanity]

Why do you guys watch the NBA if yall think it's rigged?

I love yall but i have never seen a fanbase whine about calls so much, as if the entire league doesn't have that issue.

You must have missed the C's fans and Thunder fans after they were respectively jobbed. We watch because of the rare moments when talent transcends, but if you don't think there's referee bias and you think this is just noise...I think you've got blinders on. I'm not even just talking about the Knicks here, there are examples in every series the Heat were involved in and there's plenty in other seasons as well...D-Wade vs Dallas is the most obvious travesty in the last decade. You thought those games were officiated fairly?

Agreed 100%

The Heats championship over the Mavs was clearly the doing of the refs. I always thought it was the most blatantly rigged championship I had ever watched. And the Blazers-Lakers and Kings-Lakers which Donaghy admitted were rigged, the most obvious rigged games of all times.

The Mavs were going to go up 3-0 in the series until a bunch of phantom fouls were called down the stretch in game 3. The Mavs were up 93-88 with 1:47 left in the game. The Heat attempted 8 free throws in that final 1:47 to win by 2. Wade went on to break Jordan's record in a single playoff or championship/playoff series, don't remember which, to set the record for most free throws attempted. The refs absolutely handed that championship to the Heat by calling constant phantom fouls in favor of Wade. The Mavs had won 90-80 and 115-90 in the first two games. They lost the series 4-2 and three of the losses were...
Game3: 98-96,
Game5: 101-100(OT) and
Game6: 95-92.
The free throw disparity...
Game3: Mavs-18/26 Heat-20/34
Game5: Mavs 21/25 Heat-32/49
Game6: Mavs-19/23 Heat-23/37

So as far attempts go in those 2pt, 1pt and 3pt losses, the Heat were +8, +24 and +14 in attempts. Remember though when they were plus +8, they shot 8 attempts in the final 1:47 down 5. They made 2 more free throw attempts than the Mavs and won by 2, thus they won by free throws. When they won by 3 and attempted +14 free throws, they made 4 more free throws so again, they won off those free throws. And you didn't need anyone telling you that when you're offered 49 points at the line, you're tied at the end of regulation and win by 1, that the game was rigged. That series was absolutely rigged.

As for the Blazers and Lakers... Game 7.... Blazers were 73-58 with 11 minutes left in the game. The Lakers went on to outscore the Blazers 31-11 in the final 11 minutes to win 89-85. All the while, they shot 37 free throws to the Blazers 16.

The Kings and Lakers... Game 6... the Kings were up 3-2 in the series and the game was tied going into the 4th quarter. The Lakers would go on to attempt 27 free throws in the 4th quarter while Divac and Pollard picked up their 6th foul to foul out without even touching anyone. The Lakers went on to win 106-102 only outscoring the Kings by 4 in the 4th quarter even with the 27 free throw attempts.

So there you have it... two 4th quarters where teams won by 4 attempting 21 and 27 more free throws which is an entire quarters worth of points just taking free(points) throws. And the Heat only won by 1 on an entire half worth of free(points) throws with 49 attempts. You can't possibly tell me the refs didn't make sure the Lakers and Heat won those series, they absolutely did.

Wow nice summary. It definitely was a shame the Mavs and Kings got jobbed by refs. Good thing Dirk won it all and got revenge but poor Kings....

[23-7]

uhhhhhh.....?

[Sprewell4Three]

Indiana younger, quicker, more athletic

If we want to compete with them we have to start our best 5 players