Anyone optimistic regarding Shumpert?

[Jheri Curl]

I'm on the fence. He needs to focus on what he does well or should do well, which is man to man defense and hitting threes. He shouldn't be trying to take guys off the dribble because he can't really dribble. He's not a great finisher for such an athletic guy. If the lane is open though, of course he should take it to the rim.

He can either be a starting level 3 and D guy or just an off the bench one but that's all dependent on this coming off-season. Last shot to truly break through.

[Context]

Can anyone name me a rookie that stole the ball from wade on back to back plays?
With Phil here Shump is going to reach his potential...

[knickabocker88]

I'm on the fence. He needs to focus on what he does well or should do well, which is man to man defense and hitting threes. He shouldn't be trying to take guys off the dribble because he can't really dribble. He's not a great finisher for such an athletic guy. If the lane is open though, of course he should take it to the rim.

He can either be a starting level 3 and D guy or just an off the bench one but that's all dependent on this coming off-season. Last shot to truly break through.

Last Shot

He's 23

Ariza went from Obscurity in NY to Starting for a Championship Team in LA back to No defined role in Houston back to having a career year in Washington.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

He is still very young. A lot of guys don't peak until year 6 or 7. Shump is in year 3 and really year 2 when you consider the ACL injury. He's still at the point where potential goes a long way, and the potential is promising, when you consider:

- very long stretches of playing elite defense (14 votes as all-defensive team as a rookie is unheard of)
- very long stretches of elite rebounding from the 2
- decent stretches of solid spot-up shooting

Those skills alone make him an above-average starting 2. People who cite his poor finishing/handles/decision-making as proving otherwise simply don't grasp the very basic point that defense is half of the game.

And then on top of that, he's shown flashes on offense that go way beyond the Bruce Bowen/Tony Allen mold. He's shown a combination of strength and quickness that allows him to blow by defenders, and to be honest one reason he often makes poor decisions in these cases is that it looks like he's surprised how open he is able to get himself. He also shown very good form and fluidity on his pull-up jumpers. Yeah, they're often bricks, but a lot of that is due to him pulling up when he's not open enough. He just needs to get a sense for when to react to all the openings he gets.

On top of all that, he has an undeniable clutch gene. He saved us against Boston last year, period.

[NOOB77]

2015

Shump
Green
Melo
Millsap
Gasol

Get it done.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

[
Last Shot

He's 23

Ariza went from Obscurity in NY to Starting for a Championship Team in LA back to No defined role in Houston back to having a career year in Washington.

Great comparison. Ariza didn't crack 35% from 3 until year 9. And that playoff run with LA where he was well over 40% from 3 was year 5 for him.

[BBALLER4FR]

Shump's Defense is a good as JR's offense.
Shump's offense is as bad as JR's defense, which is it isn't putrid (Like say Shandon Anderson was), there's plenty of room for improvement but this may be as good as it gets.

What I'm trying to say is that no one is complaining about JR, other than his attitude, and if that was better you'd all take the 6MOY offense despite his below average defense. Accept Shump for what he is.

I will say this though, it's too early to tell but if THJ puts in the effort his dad put into the game, Timmy Jr. could be the answer to both these guys

[Johnny Hoops]

I dont know why Knicks fans love him. They always talk about how athletic he is. But he looks so out of place and has poor ball controll/handles. I dont know why yall think Phil Jackson will make him better. What you see, is what you get.

A ZERO pressure game, this is what he offers?

While I understand the potential impact Shump can have for us on the defensive end of the floor I'm really torn on him for a # of reasons.....

- I don't like his body ---- it's too tight and injury prone (he's always looks 1 step away from injury)
- he is a dumb basketball player (very low IQ defensively and on D he is all effort and no brains -- bad angles, over-plays guys and gets beat back-door, gets up on guys he can't contain)
- his offensive game is very limited

One of my biggest issues is his street mentality --- for ex. we are finishing out the season the other night in NJ and all of a sudden Shump knocks down a shot --- he then proceeds to start going all crazy with some "and 1" moves and practically dribbles himself into a coma. Then he starts jacking shots up --- he just isn't a smart / high % offensive player --- everything is flash and little substance.

I like Shump --- but I think he may ultimately dissapoint us. Getting a solid PG like a Collison or a Teague may be a better play for the Knicks -- considering JR/THJ are probably sticking around. Get the PG and a veteran SF and you really negate the loss of Shump.

[Kn1cksNation]

I have hope in Shump, since we brought Phil in and knowing that Phil loves him, Shumps game was rejuvenated. He's got a bright future, and I hope he shines here in NY.

[Johnny Hoops]

Shumpert is a good player. I think he is an all star defender (if there is such a thing). Bruce Bowen couldnt hit hit jumpers most of his career but he worked on his 3 and it help the Spurs win rings.

Shumpert just has to hit open jumpers, and he is very athletics and can get to the rim and run. He is not a star, and player that deserves big money. But he is a piece of a championship team.

You are missing a number of GIGANTIC differences when you are comparing Shump to a Bowen.

- Bowen was an all-time smart defender --- Shump is as dumb as a rock
- Bowen relied on positioning & defensive technique --- Shump relies on running around the court like a chicken with his head cut off
- Bowen was a very big-time clutch shooter (see Robert Howry) --- Shump has only choked under pressure
- Bowen stayed healthy his entire career (I think) --- Shump is always a step away from the injured list

I would trade Shump for Collison and Bullock in a flash.

Bullock has much better chance of becoming Bowen than Shump.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

[

- Bowen was an all-time smart defender --- Shump is as dumb as a rock
- Bowen relied on positioning & defensive technique --- Shump relies on running around the court like a chicken with his head cut off
- Bowen was a very big-time clutch shooter (see Robert Howry) --- Shump has only choked under pressure
- Bowen stayed healthy his entire career (I think) --- Shump is always a step away from the injured list

I would trade Shump for Collison and Bullock in a flash.

Bullock has much better chance of becoming Bowen than Shump.

This is just wrong... Shump's best moments have been in clutch situations:

- last season against Phoenix
- LAst year's playoffs; game 6's of Boston and Indy
- this year against San Antonio and Dallas

[Capn'O]

I'm on the fence. He needs to focus on what he does well or should do well, which is man to man defense and hitting threes. He shouldn't be trying to take guys off the dribble because he can't really dribble. He's not a great finisher for such an athletic guy. If the lane is open though, of course he should take it to the rim.

He can either be a starting level 3 and D guy or just an off the bench one but that's all dependent on this coming off-season. Last shot to truly break through.

Last Shot

He's 23

Ariza went from Obscurity in NY to Starting for a Championship Team in LA back to No defined role in Houston back to having a career year in Washington.

Ariza is actually a great comparison with Shump.

I believe in Iman. He'll do much better with proper support.

[Johnny Hoops]

My off-season program for Shump.....

- lose 10 pounds -- you are physically strong enough -- you need to get quicker
- get on a yoga program to loosen up those hips/muscles -- create more flexability
- work on your handle 1 hour per day
- work on your shooting shot 1 hour per day
- never dunk again --- just get to the point where you can finish any kind of lay-up
- study film of the great defenders (T-Allen, Bowen, etc)

[Johnny Hoops]

[

- Bowen was an all-time smart defender --- Shump is as dumb as a rock
- Bowen relied on positioning & defensive technique --- Shump relies on running around the court like a chicken with his head cut off
- Bowen was a very big-time clutch shooter (see Robert Howry) --- Shump has only choked under pressure
- Bowen stayed healthy his entire career (I think) --- Shump is always a step away from the injured list

I would trade Shump for Collison and Bullock in a flash.

Bullock has much better chance of becoming Bowen than Shump.

This is just wrong... Shump's best moments have been in clutch situations:

- last season against Phoenix
- LAst year's playoffs; game 6's of Boston and Indy
- this year against San Antonio and Dallas

He completely choked under the pressure of this regular season -- he is not clutch. He is not clutch.

[blumatic]

Shumpert is a good player. I think he is an all star defender (if there is such a thing). Bruce Bowen couldnt hit hit jumpers most of his career but he worked on his 3 and it help the Spurs win rings.

Shumpert just has to hit open jumpers, and he is very athletics and can get to the rim and run. He is not a star, and player that deserves big money. But he is a piece of a championship team.

You are missing a number of GIGANTIC differences when you are comparing Shump to a Bowen.

- Bowen was an all-time smart defender --- Shump is as dumb as a rock
- Bowen relied on positioning & defensive technique --- Shump relies on running around the court like a chicken with his head cut off
- Bowen was a very big-time clutch shooter (see Robert Howry) --- Shump has only choked under pressure
- Bowen stayed healthy his entire career (I think) --- Shump is always a step away from the injured list

I would trade Shump for Collison and Bullock in a flash.

Bullock has much better chance of becoming Bowen than Shump.

But your missing one big gigantic difference.

Your Bowen has never been a great shooter until late in his career. He struggled to be an NBA player. Bowen then played for a hall of fame coach in Pat Riley for development. Then played for Pop. He worked hard.

Phil Jackson breathes of Shumpert and Shump's defense goes crazy.

So get outta here trying to compare a finished product to one that is developing. Shump already has a better start than Bowen.

[MaseInYourFace]

He is still very young. A lot of guys don't peak until year 6 or 7. Shump is in year 3 and really year 2 when you consider the ACL injury. He's still at the point where potential goes a long way, and the potential is promising, when you consider:

- very long stretches of playing elite defense (14 votes as all-defensive team as a rookie is unheard of)
- very long stretches of elite rebounding from the 2
- decent stretches of solid spot-up shooting

Those skills alone make him an above-average starting 2. People who cite his poor finishing/handles/decision-making as proving otherwise simply don't grasp the very basic point that defense is half of the game.

And then on top of that, he's shown flashes on offense that go way beyond the Bruce Bowen/Tony Allen mold. He's shown a combination of strength and quickness that allows him to blow by defenders, and to be honest one reason he often makes poor decisions in these cases is that it looks like he's surprised how open he is able to get himself. He also shown very good form and fluidity on his pull-up jumpers. Yeah, they're often bricks, but a lot of that is due to him pulling up when he's not open enough. He just needs to get a sense for when to react to all the openings he gets.

On top of all that, he has an undeniable clutch gene. He saved us against Boston last year, period.

I think you are letting your liking him cloud your perception of him a bit. He has not shown enough of a complete repertoire offensively nor does he have good natural instincts on offense for anyone to see him having a high upside offensively. Believing he has any kind of upside offensively beyond a good open shot guy with occasional drive is purely based on faith.

[MaseInYourFace]

My off-season program for Shump.....

- lose 10 pounds -- you are physically strong enough -- you need to get quicker
- get on a yoga program to loosen up those hips/muscles -- create more flexability
- work on your handle 1 hour per day
- work on your shooting shot 1 hour per day
- never dunk again --- just get to the point where you can finish any kind of lay-up
- study film of the great defenders (T-Allen, Bowen, etc)

I actually like that and it's not unrealistic.

[Capn'O]

My off-season program for Shump.....

- lose 10 pounds -- you are physically strong enough -- you need to get quicker
- get on a yoga program to loosen up those hips/muscles -- create more flexability
- work on your handle 1 hour per day
- work on your shooting shot 1 hour per day
- never dunk again --- just get to the point where you can finish any kind of lay-up
- study film of the great defenders (T-Allen, Bowen, etc)

Yeah but

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-Mz3Ov6xNQ[/youtube]

and

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uirM5sljfO8[/youtube]




Good list though. About right. First and foremost, Shump just needs to have his head right. Just having confidence that he has a place on this team and in this league made a world of difference down the stretch.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

He completely choked under the pressure of this regular season -- he is not clutch. He is not clutch.

Saying he had a bad year all-around is not the same as saying he choked. The fact is that even in this down year he's been comparatively better in clutch situations than in general. Calling the entire regular season a pressure situation is just silly.

[ORANGEandBLUE]

I think you are letting your liking him cloud your perception of him a bit. He has not shown enough of a complete repertoire offensively nor does he have good natural instincts on offense for anyone to see him having a high upside offensively. Believing he has any kind of upside offensively beyond a good open shot guy with occasional drive is purely based on faith.

I don't think he'll ever be a 2nd or even 3rd option, but the fact that he can dribble past his man and has good form on his pull-up J gives him potential to be more than a simple catch and shoot guy. I think what Ariza is going this season is a pretty good example of his ceiling offensively.