Anyone optimistic regarding Shumpert?

MaseInYourFace · Post #61 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 4:58 pm

ORANGEandBLUE wrote:
Johnny Hoops wrote:
He completely choked under the pressure of this regular season -- he is not clutch. He is not clutch.

Saying he had a bad year all-around is not the same as saying he choked. The fact is that even in this down year he's been comparatively better in clutch situations than in general. Calling the entire regular season a pressure situation is just silly.

He's actually one of the few guys on this team I don't worry about being out there late in a close game.

Jheri Curl · Post #62 » by **Jheri Curl** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 6:04 pm

knickabocker88 wrote:
Jheri Curl wrote:I'm on the fence. He needs to focus on what he does well or should do well, which is man to man defense and hitting threes. He shouldn't be trying to take guys off the dribble because he can't really dribble. He's not a great finisher for such an athletic guy. If the lane is open though, of course he should take it to the rim.

He can either be a starting level 3 and D guy or just an off the bench one but that's all dependent on this coming off-season. Last shot to truly break through.

Last Shot

He's 23

Ariza went from Obscurity in NY to Starting for a Championship Team in LA back to No defined role in Houston back to having a career year in Washington.

His last shot here is what I should say. A change of scenery is what Shumpert might need the most but if the majority of this year's staff will be gone, he'll have a clean slate to work with in regards to coaches.

Post #63 » by **moocow007** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:25 pm

Context wrote:Can anyone name me a rookie that stole the ball from wade on back to back plays?
With Phil here Shump is going to reach his potential...

That is what I'm hoping...that the Shumpert that we've seen play down the end is the Shumpert we will see going forward.

Context · Post #64 » by **Context** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 7:41 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Context wrote:Can anyone name me a rookie that stole the ball from wade on back to back plays?
With Phil here Shump is going to reach his potential...

That is what I'm hoping...that the Shumpert that we've seen play down the end is the Shumpert we will see going forward.

As soon as the Phil siging rumors kicked up the old shump kicked in...I believe it will happen moo...

PumaClyde · Post #65 » by **PumaClyde** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:08 pm

I like Shumpert...I think he has a great upside...I think he should drop a few pounds to help his knees..

Shame he had to come up around a favoritism coach, a ball stop , a teacher's pet nut job, and a Semi pro..

Hope he can overcome growing up in dysfunction...

Can't develop rhythm or idenity when you just give the ball to one player and watch iso all day.

He needs a fair, disciplinary type coach to harness his energy towards positive play IMO.

BKAY · Post #66 » by **BKAY** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 8:24 pm

Offense can be taught, he is still young.

Defense is instincts, and kid came in And is an elite defender. That's why I still have faith in Shumpert.

knicknack · Post #67 » by **knicknack** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:43 pm

Fat Kat wrote:
knicknack wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:It simply looks as if he hasn't worked on his game at all. Toure Murray would've produced more given the same role.

Ah.........NO! Murray is not the one. I call him Brokeback Wrist Mountain for the way he holds his wrists. He appears to have decent potential but nothing near starter potential. More like a 3rd string pg t best. I don't like his body language......frequently holding his head down like he's about to get punished for his mistakes. He needs to exude more confidence in himself, then maybe he could be more serviceable. But if he can yield a good return in a trade for a need like pg I'm down to move him if not he could be a significant piece on a contender.........if we can just become one.

No need to queen out. I'm a Shump fan, but he simply hasn't panned out. If swagger and body language actually helped our boy Iman shoot 40%, he'd be a starting level player. If his defense was actually "something special", we probably wouldn't have gotten killed by wings this year. Shump simply isn't anything more than a Ronnie Brewer type of player and I wouldn't hold out hope that he simply turns it around at this point.

Possibly, but I believe under the right coach and teammates, Shump could thrive. His energy is really not utilized properly on this team and we often see him out of control because of our coaching. I seem to remember a few games recently where he took over the game down the stretch practically by himself on defense. Murray is overrated, Raps guards ate him up frequently on defense yesterday. Murray's a 3rd string pg at best, don't really see much upside, his offense is not reliable although he made some shots last night.......it can't be expected to perform like that game in and game out, don't forget he was playing against scrubs during most of his points. His shot looks like it has a hitch in it, I'm actually surprised he gets if off without getting blocked every time. Still, I'll take Shump everyday, all day long over Broke Wrist Mountain!

emo · Post #68 » by **emo** » Thu Apr 17, 2014 9:48 pm

If he played against every team the way he does against the Nets..

Guy would be on the verge of a max contract.

ozwizard8 · Post #69 » by **ozwizard8** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:43 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
ozwizard8 wrote:
TrueWarrior wrote:
Yes.

Toure is the same size and just as good a defender, but he has a better offensive game. Which isn't saying much but hey. Give Toure Shumps minutes and he would have done better, and Toure is a borderline NBA player.

Shump has no excuses anymore. Another healthy offseason and Phil Jackson at his disposal. This is his last chance before he's playing in China with Steph.

shumps defence>>> toure.

toure isnt that good. shumpert has a trade value. there will be plenty teams wanting him for free agency.
i'm not sure about toure murry can stay in nba or not?

toure's offense isnt better than shumpert that much.
maybe handling and passing skills are better.

Agreed, the knicks flawed defensive scheme made guys look worse. Although that doesn't excuse Chandler not defending the basket properly or Shumpert being too aggressive. Also I think many fans have set a really high bar for Shumpert defensively. To the point where if he doesn't reach it he therefore sucks. No perspective.

i said trade him for lowry in mid season but...
shumpert could be at least j.butler-t.allen level defender. he needs good coaching staff, good defensive schemes.

chandler&felton were disaster in defense this year.
also we miss j.kidd on defence. he's super smart defender off all time.
his defense was legit he increase bb iq off all players on court. we need a good defender like him also mentally top player is what we need.

if we can acquire rondo somehow it would be awesome.

Meat · Post #70 » by **Meat** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:05 pm

he'd be fine if our starters weren't so imbalanced,

Knicksfan20 · Post #71 » by **Knicksfan20** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:36 pm

Shump needs to stop hanging around JR. He is toxic and a bad influence on Shumpert. Shump needs to spend less time in the clubs and more time in the GYM.

Knicksfan20 · Post #72 » by **Knicksfan20** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:38 pm

PumaClyde wrote:I like Shumpert...I think he has a great upside...I think he should drop a few pounds to help his knees..

Shame he had to come up around a favoritism coach, a ball stop , a teacher's pet nut job, and a Semi pro..

Hope he can overcome growing up in dysfunction...

Can't develop rhythm or idenity when you just give the ball to one player and watch iso all day.

He needs a fair, disciplinary type coach to harness his energy towards positive play IMO.

Agree with all of this.

E86 · Post #73 » by **E86** » Sat Apr 19, 2014 8:50 pm

It's so simple. All Shumpert needs to do is play basketball better.

alwaysaknick · Post #74 » by **alwaysaknick** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 11:20 am

Shump should stay here and retire as a knick

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BodyCount · Post #75 » by **BodyCount** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:26 pm

I'm just sad that it's not the same shumpert we drafted. It seems to me that after his injury his footwork is half slower.

I still didn't complete loose hope in him. I want to see him in triangle before we sack him

melo mvp 15 · Post #76 » by **melo mvp 15** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:21 am

It's disturbing how we've basically given him the Landry Fields treatment.

He went from untouchable in trades and a future all star to he's in a slump, give him time to it's the coach's fault to trade him for anything. Now I'm still at "it's the coach's fault" but I know many of you wanted to trade him that late OKC/ Dallas pick or Collison... I understand the logic in trading him for a player who isn't as far into his rookie deal (or a draft pick), but I'd still like to see him under a good coach. Yes I realize the risk, because if he doesn't improve or somehow even regresses more... his value is down to nothing and we'd lose him for nothing like we did with Landry.

melo mvp 15 · Post #77 » by **melo mvp 15** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 5:26 am

And from a purely basketball stand point: Shumpert and Melo are an ideal fit on paper. Hell, even on the court we've seen them mesh. It's that there hasn't been any decent offensive schemes/system or an at least average PG (well yes Pablo was good, but he could only play a certain amount of minutes) to keep a good, consistent offense. Also, it didn't help playing along guys who hold the ball too much like Amar'e and JR.

NYKAL · Post #78 » by **NYKAL** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:23 pm

Buggin Out wrote:He just needs to focus on defense and work on making 3s. That's it, but I doubt he puts in the work this summer, does he even want to get paid?

just like this past off season. It's said that instead of working on his game, he left the country to party it up.

His agent complained about him playing small forward and wanting to play primarily at the 1and2spots. The Knicks responded by saying "play the point in summer league and lets see." He agreed to play but he only played in one game before ditching summer league all together.

It makes it appear that not only was he not working on his game but, he doesn't even keep the commitments

he's made

How can he call himself a guard when he can't even dribble. Don't even let me get started his forays to teh rim. Unless it's a dunk, dude can't make a shot. Has he ever head of a layup drill.

NYKAL · Post #79 » by **NYKAL** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:28 pm

NYKfan77 wrote:I think Shump is going to be a very good triangle PG if he is here and gets a chance in that role.

DUDE CAN'T DRIBBLE. How can you be even a 4th string point if you can't dribble.

Also, a good point has to be able to break down his defenders off the dribble (shump it totally incapable of doing that. He can't even take centers off the dribble.) He has to be able to finish at the rack which Shump has shown he can't do unless its an uncontested dunk. His inability to finish at the rim is baffling.

MaseInYourFace · Post #80 » by **MaseInYourFace** » Tue Apr 22, 2014 4:29 pm

BKAY wrote:Offense can be taught, he is still young.

Defense is instincts, and kid came in And is an elite defender. That's why I still have faith in Shumpert.

A lot of offense is instincts too and natural skills do come into play. Some guys have a very hard time with it. Shumpert does not have great natural instincts offensively. Compare to Hardaway Jr. Hardaway Jr does. I feel Shumpert can be coached up offensively but has limited upside there.

Are you optimistic about Shumpert?