Can we sign and trade Melo.....?

[GONYK]

Unless Melo is going to play in Houston for the MLE, we don't need to consider their "take it or leave it" proposition.

Signing Melo with their MLE is not the only option Houston has. The cap is expected to go up to $66.5 million next season, remember. If the Rockets can dump Asik and Lin, they'd be able to sign Melo outright for up to $24 million that year (I think -- someone please check).

So Houston does have some leverage. If Melo insists on leaving the Knicks, getting Lin and Asik back (as opposed to absolutely nothing) looks decent to me.

It's essentially the same thing as getting nothing

We shouldn't be making deals based on what Houston could theoretically do. If they want to clear cap, more power to them. They don't really have a seat at the table until then though.

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[dantian]

The entire "best case trade" I made up is exactly that. Best possible trade the Rockets will offer. It's a take it or leave it offer. I understand if Knicks fans think you have all the power in negotiations here. In which case we simply agree to disagree. Obviously everything rest on Melo's willingness to choose winning over being the MAN in NY. But if he chooses winning, that's the best offer the Rockets will possibly offer. And quite frankly I think they'd offer even less because Morey's not exactly known to give "best offers" like I do on the internet. If the Knicks refuse, the Rockets will simply trade their picks and young players to other teams willing to absorb the salaries the Rockets need to dump. Again, I don't expect Knicks fans to believe me in the possibility of this happening. But should Melo do leave NY, well, one of us will be proven right at that time.

Also, Melo's most obvious position on the Rockets is the PF position based on the Rockets style. Rockets like the 4-out-1-in more than traditional 2-big lineups. He and Parsons are not redundant.

I see scenarios where the Rockets can clear the cap space needed by simply moving Lin/Asik/Dmo and our #1 pick. The thread I made on the trade board has the other teams fans very receptive to the deals.

Really no need to give up Jones or Parsons, or to really involve the Knicks at all.

You forgot one big issue, Parsons will get paid big money 2015 and he plays the same position Melo does. It'd be stupid to keep him just one more season and let him walk. The situation would be just like that for Asik and Lin: with Howard and Harden on the team, you don't sign them to that contract that are hard to trade now. For 15mil in the last year, both have negative trade value now, worse in Lin's case than Asik's. So, to clear cap, you'd definitely need to include Parsons to entice some lotto teams to take Lin/Asik off your hands.

[LarsV8]

You forgot one big issue, Parsons will get paid big money 2015 and he plays the same position Melo does. It'd be stupid to keep him just one more season and let him walk. The situation would be just like that for Asik and Lin: with Howard and Harden on the team, you don't sign them to that contract that are hard to trade now. For 15mil in the last year, both have negative trade value now, worse in Lin's case than Asik's. So, to clear cap, you'd definitely need to include Parsons to entice some lotto teams to take Lin/Asik off your hands.

Melo would be played as a stretch four in Houston, alongside Parsons, not as a 3. Houston has serious problem with minutes. Parsons and Harden play entirely too many minutes, and adding a Melo as a 3-4 would help balance out the rotation and cut back on minutes.

I have run numerous trade threads with ideas to unload Lin and Asik and it has been proven to be very easy. Asik is highly coveted and would be easy to move. Lin, not as much, but including our first round pick and young big like Dmo is enough to get it done.

[GONYK]

You forgot one big issue, Parsons will get paid big money 2015 and he plays the same position Melo does. It'd be stupid to keep him just one more season and let him walk. The situation would be just like that for Asik and Lin: with Howard and Harden on the team, you don't sign them to that contract that are hard to trade now. For 15mil in the last year, both have negative trade value now, worse in Lin's case than Asik's. So, to clear cap, you'd definitely need to include Parsons to entice some lotto teams to take Lin/Asik off your hands.

Melo would be played as a stretch four in Houston, alongside Parsons, not as a 3. Houston has serious problem with minutes. Parsons and Harden play entirely too many minutes, and adding a Melo as a 3-4 would help balance out the rotation and cut back on minutes.

I have run numerous trade threads with ideas to unload Lin and Asik and it has been proven to be very easy. Asik is highly coveted and would be easy to move. Lin, not as much, but including our first round pick and young big like Dmo is enough to get it done.

... On a message board

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[Manitoba]

Unless Melo is going to play in Houston for the MLE, we don't need to consider their "take it or leave it" proposition.

Signing Melo with their MLE is not the only option Houston has. The cap is expected to go up to $66.5 million next season, remember. If the Rockets can dump Asik and Lin, they'd be able to sign Melo outright for up to $24 million that year (I think -- someone please check).

So Houston does have some leverage. If Melo insists on leaving the Knicks, getting Lin and Asik back (as opposed to absolutely nothing) looks decent to me.

It's essentially the same thing as getting nothing

We shouldn't be making deals based on what Houston could theoretically do. If they want to clear cap, more power to them. They don't really have a seat at the table until then though.

In my opinion, Lin and Asik are not "essentially nothing". Each of them is probably better than anybody we can realistically draft in 2015. The chances of drafting *two* guys as good as they are are pretty microscopic -- even if you assume that we could somehow wangle two first round picks.

Furthermore, we wouldn't have to wait for years for Lin and Asik to develop. What's the point of spending big on free agents in 2015 if we have to wait for some draftees to grow up?

We do risk watching the two of them walk away in 2015. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. We would have their Bird rights, however, so we could probably pay them more than they could get elsewhere -- even after we sign some big free agents. I think there's an excellent chance we would be able to keep both of them.

Trading for Lin and Asik would greatly speed up our rebuild if Melo insists on leaving. That's a lot better than nothing.

[GONYK]

Signing Melo with their MLE is not the only option Houston has. The cap is expected to go up to $66.5 million next season, remember. If the Rockets can dump Asik and Lin, they'd be able to sign Melo outright for up to $24 million that year (I think -- someone please check).

So Houston does have some leverage. If Melo insists on leaving the Knicks, getting Lin and Asik back (as opposed to absolutely nothing) looks decent to me.

It's essentially the same thing as getting nothing

We shouldn't be making deals based on what Houston could theoretically do. If they want to clear cap, more power to them. They don't really have a seat at the table until then though.

In my opinion, Lin and Asik are not "essentially nothing". Each of them is probably better than anybody we can realistically draft in 2015. The chances of drafting *two* guys as good as they are are pretty microscopic -- even if you assume that we could somehow wangle two first round picks.

Furthermore, we wouldn't have to wait for years for Lin and Asik to develop. What's the point of spending big on free agents in 2015 if we have to wait for some draftees to grow up?

We do risk watching the two of them walk away in 2015. But nothing ventured, nothing gained. We would have their Bird rights, however, so we could probably pay them more than they could get elsewhere -- even after we sign some big free agents. I think there's an excellent chance we would be able to keep both of them.

Trading for Lin and Asik would greatly speed up our rebuild if Melo insists on leaving. That's a lot better than nothing.

Nope. We can just sign them in the offseason if we really want them. It does nothing for us to get them now.

[Manitoba]

Trading for Lin and Asik would greatly speed up our rebuild if Melo insists on leaving. That's a lot better than nothing.

Nope. We can just sign them in the offseason if we really want them. It does nothing for us to get them now.

Nope. As I said, if we got Lin and Asik now, via trade (or sign and trade) for Melo, we would get their Bird rights too. Both of their contracts will expire in 2015, and that will be perfect. We could use up our cap space that year on other free agents, then go over the cap on Lin and Asik. This could be *very* important.

Also, by getting the two of them now, we would have a year to "test drive" them. If they didn't fit, we'd simply let them walk. There would be no test drive if we signed them as free agents.

Frankly, giiven their talent and the perfect timing of their contracts, Lin and Asik are way better than nothing.

[GONYK]

No

Trading for Lin and Asik would greatly speed up our rebuild if Melo insists on leaving. That's a lot better than nothing.

Nope. We can just sign them in the offseason if we really want them. It does nothing for us to get them now.

Nope. As I said, if we got Lin and Asik now, via trade (or sign and trade) for Melo, we would get their Bird rights too. Both of their contracts will expire in 2015, and that will be perfect. We could use up our cap space that year on other free agents, then go over the cap on Lin and Asik. This could be *very* important.

Also, by getting the two of them now, we would have a year to "test drive" them. If they didn't fit, we'd simply let them walk. There would be no test drive if we signed them as free agents.

Frankly, giiven their talent and the perfect timing of their contracts, Lin and Asik are way better than nothing.

So Melo is worth a test drive of Lin and Asik, and even then we might let them walk?

A test drive is worth that much?

We know who they are and they will be there in 2015. They are nothing more than expirings to us really, and certainly not enough to get Melo.

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[Thugger HBC]

Trading for Lin and Asik would greatly speed up our rebuild if Melo insists on leaving. That's a lot better than nothing.

Nope. We can just sign them in the offseason if we really want them. It does nothing for us to get them now.

Nope. As I said, if we got Lin and Asik now, via trade (or sign and trade) for Melo, we would get their Bird rights too. Both of their contracts will expire in 2015, and that will be perfect. We could use up our cap space that year on other free agents, then go over the cap on Lin and Asik. This could be *very* important.

Also, by getting the two of them now, we would have a year to "test drive" them. If they didn't fit, we'd simply let them walk. There would be no test drive if we signed them as free agents.

Frankly, giiven their talent and the perfect timing of their contracts, Lin and Asik are way better than nothing.

You forgot about their cap holds....the object of 2015 is to have max space, not have it taken up by marginal players that are overpaid.

Besides no team will need bird rights to sign those guys....they wont command much.

[BullsFTW]

A S&T will only happen when Melo let's it be known where he wants to end up.

[IrishBeatdown]

Melo would be played as a stretch four in Houston, alongside Parsons, not as a 3. Houston has serious problem with minutes. Parsons and Harden play entirely too many minutes, and adding a Melo as a 3-4 would help balance out the rotation and cut back on minutes.

I have run numerous trade threads with ideas to unload Lin and Asik and it has been proven to be very easy. Asik is highly coveted and would be easy to move. Lin, not as much, but including our first round pick and young big like Dmo is enough to get it done.

You can't be serious, would-be armchair GM.

[Manitoba]

Nope. As I said, if we got Lin and Asik now, via trade (or sign and trade) for Melo, we would get their Bird rights too. Both of their contracts will expire in 2015, and that will be perfect. We could use up our cap space that year on other free agents, then go over the cap on Lin and Asik. This could be *very* important.

You forgot about their cap holds....the object of 2015 is to have max space, not have it taken up by marginal players that are overpaid.

You're right. I didn't know about the cap holds. OK, I withdraw my Bird rights argument.

Besides no team will need bird rights to sign those guys....they wont command much.

Define "much". Lin's $8.3 million cap hit is about average for a top 10 PG (which is where his TS% of .572 puts him).

[Never Wrong]

Nope. As I said, if we got Lin and Asik now, via trade (or sign and trade) for Melo, we would get their Bird rights too. Both of their contracts will expire in 2015, and that will be perfect. We could use up our cap space that year on other free agents, then go over the cap on Lin and Asik. This could be *very* important.

You forgot about their cap holds....the object of 2015 is to have max space, not have it taken up by marginal players that are overpaid.

You're right. I didn't know about the cap holds. OK, I withdraw my Bird rights argument.

Besides no team will need bird rights to sign those guys....they wont command much.

Define "much". Lin's $8.3 million cap hit is about average for a top 10 PG (which is where his TS% of .572 puts him).

Can't even dribble the ball, but yeah....Top 10....lol......he's easily one of the worst players I've ever seen

[cs hauser]

People are seriously under-valuing Omer Asik here. He is arguably a Top 10 center in the league. He averaged a double-double last season, and when Dwight sat out with injury this season he again averaged a double-double. And while he is owed $15M in salary next year, he will count only $8.4M towards the cap. That makes him very attractive to teams that are rebuilding through free agency. Omer Asik occupying only $8.4M in the salary cap is a big plus.

The only reason the Rockets haven't been able to unload him is because they were too greedy (two first rd picks? lol). If the Rockets lower their asking price, they would have no trouble unloading him. Especially if they just give him away for free.

As for Jeremy Lin, the Rockets can easily unload his expiring contract by packaging him with draft picks. Golden State did exactly that last summer, when they bribed Utah with draft picks to unload the big contracts of Richard Jefferson and Andris Biedrins. The allowed the Warriors to go under the cap and sign Iguodola. Expect the Rockets to do the same.

If the Rockets were to go after Carmelo, they would have no trouble unloading Asik & Lin's contracts. They would be able to offer Melo a contract with a starting salary of $19.5M. A sign-n-trade with the Knicks would only be done if the Knicks want Asik for themselves and if Melo wants his $22.5M max.

[dantian]

You forgot one big issue, Parsons will get paid big money 2015 and he plays the same position Melo does. It'd be stupid to keep him just one more season and let him walk. The situation would be just like that for Asik and Lin: with Howard and Harden on the team, you don't sign them to that contract that are hard to trade now. For 15mil in the last year, both have negative trade value now, worse in Lin's case than Asik's. So, to clear cap, you'd definitely need to include Parsons to entice some lotto teams to take Lin/Asik off your hands.

Melo would be played as a stretch four in Houston, alongside Parsons, not as a 3. Houston has serious problem with minutes. Parsons and Harden play entirely too many minutes, and adding a Melo as a 3-4 would help balance out the rotation and cut back on minutes.

I have run numerous trade threads with ideas to unload Lin and Asik and it has been proven to be very easy. Asik is highly coveted and would be easy to move. Lin, not as much, but including our first round pick and young big like Dmo is enough to get it done.

You don't seriously want to have Howard and Melo take up 40mil cap space, Harden 15mil, and then Parsons 10-12mil minimum. Besley would require another 5-6mil to keep, and you don't have a true PF yet. If you get Melo, you don't need another 10-12 mil guy but rather three 4-6 mil guys to fill out the roster.

[N8isScofield]

Nope. As I said, if we got Lin and Asik now, via trade (or sign and trade) for Melo, we would get their Bird rights too. Both of their contracts will expire in 2015, and that will be perfect. We could use up our cap space that year on other free agents, then go over the cap on Lin and Asik. This could be *very* important.

You forgot about their cap holds....the object of 2015 is to have max space, not have it taken up by marginal players that are overpaid.

You're right. I didn't know about the cap holds. OK, I withdraw my Bird rights argument.

Besides no team will need bird rights to sign those guys....they wont command much.

Define "much". Lin's $8.3 million cap hit is about average for a top 10 PG (which is where his TS% of .572 puts him).

This is the problem with all of these advanced metrics. At the end of the day the stat geeks can say whatever they want. The formulas used to determine things like TS are not some divinely sent absolute from the heavens. They're basically arbitrary formulas designed to supplement the eye test. I personally still trust my eyes way more than some random algebraic equation that a nerd who has never played basketball came up with. Lin is not a top 10 PG based on the eye test. You'd have a very tough time finding a GM, including Morey if he's being honest who would say he is.

[wang000hk]

if i was Melo,i'd sign with Bulls

you still need a decent coach to win it all

[knicksrbake]

Define "much". Lin's $8.3 million cap hit is about average for a top 10 PG (which is where his TS% of .572 puts him).

He's far from being a top 10 PG, let alone top 15 PG, in this league.

Point guards that are better than him (not ranked in any particular order):

1) Parker
2) Westbrook
3) CP3
4) Rose
5) Rondo
6 )Bledsoe
7 )Dragic
8) Thomas
9) Wall
10) Curry
11) Lawson
12) Conley
13) Irving
14) Lillard
15) Holiday
16) Teague
17) D.Will
18) Lowry
19) Rubio
20) MCW

There are probably more that I've forgotten. Fact of the matter is, Lin is not a top PG in the league.

[Juggynaut]

I wouldn't mind trading Melo at all as long as we get assets + 1st round draft picks.

[Marty McFly]

quite frankly, i really don't give a **** what he does. so long as we're not getting anyone's garbage (lin and asik. not interested in a middling ballclub next year when we'll have a damn draft pick) back I'm good with getting nothing in return. i wish him the best of luck in whatever he decides to do.

if the lakers and celtics are an option, those lottery picks would be a godsend, but those aren't likely.