Should the Knicks make a move for Rondo?

[canibaljay]

We finally have a system, and are working towards selecting players who fit said system. Yet people still wanna just throw flashy names into the roster. Rondo is great, but his greatest assets as a player are not a necessity. He's a great playmaker who needs the ball in his hand to orchestrate the offense, which would be counter productive in the triangle where you're following certain sets and thinking ahead towards the next set play (like chess, where each piece only moves in a certain manner). He's also a very average mid-range shooter. His rebounding would be amazing though.

[Forbes]

Now that we are running the triangle, we don't need a PG like Rondo. His skills would be wasted. Calderon is absolutely fine aside from his defense.

Rondo is a much better fit than Calderon. Calderon fits a need, but lets not forget he was the butt of jokes when he was a raptor and him being traded from TOR was to those fans what getting rid of Jared Jeffries was to knick fans. Meanwhile Rondo is a guy who can produce triple doubles. Rondo would likely play a similar role to kobe/jordan/pippen in the triangle as a post option moreso than a spacer.

But Carmelo is the one that should be playing that role. We want the ball in Melos hands. Rondo needs the ball in his hands to be effective I don't think he's a fit

[Jheri Curl]

Care to explain why you think that?

A) Fat Kat's post

B) The Triangle is the PG itself. Ball dominant PGs are out of place in this type of offense, add in the fact the Rondo can't stretch the floor and he'd probably end up like Payton. It places a cap on his best skills, penetration, pick and rolls and just being able to control the ball for the vast majority of the game. Now if Rondo was a deadeye 3 shooter and could function off the ball then you could probably work with him.

More important than being a 'deadeye 3 shooter' is being a good passer. The triangle can work for mediocre shooters as they gain more space to shoot open jumpers - something almost everyone in the NBA can do. What it isn't good for is bad passers because the entire infrastructure of the triangle is based around quality passes. Also, there are a ton of picks being set in the triangle as well as cutting/penetration.

Based on Gary Payton's struggles I'll have to disagree with you on that as his issues was similar to Rondo's as a ball dominant, average shooting PG. But to your credit Payton was past his prime and you probably know more about the intricacies of the Triangle than I do but his words seem to go against your statement.

[NoLayupRule]

whats missed is the penetration

Rondo is exceptional at getting to the rim. this is less important in the triangle because the ball movement and the off the ball movement help that quite a bit. Cuts, picks, rotations, etc get us open shots but mostly its not penetration to the basket as much as backdoor cuts and such


This takes away one of Rondo's best skills somewhat
Also needing the ball is an issue for Rondo



That said Melo is exceptional at quick scoring so if Rondo were to penetrate and dish to Melo, Melo would be an ideal teammate

Rondo is good enough a player to work in the triangle but his cost - via trade or free agency - make him not worth it


Parker will be a FA in 2015 and Duncan will probably have retired
Parker won't cost 20mil like rondo.
Parker is great with the ball or without and while he isn't the best shooter he's a great scorer

Id spend 12 mil on him over 20 on Rondo

[blumatic]

The triangle needs guards he can play well without the ball. Who can keep the court spaced with great shooting ability. Larkin is a better fit than Rondo. Larkin can run a team (at least a summer league team) and play off the ball.

Rondo tends to keep the ball for a long time before dropping it off for a sweet assist.

I can see Rondo allowing the system to run itself as oppose to him running the system.

Give Goran Dragic. That is the perfect guard for the triangle. He can score and he can run an offense if need be.

[dakomish23]

I don't remember Pippen being a lights out shooter at any pt in his career, especially during that 1st bulls run. He was the defensive anchor on the perimeter, the facilitator, and a scoring threat who maximized the cuts and spacing implemented in the system while playing off a scoring machine. I think Rondo could be that guy.

Smart players do well in this system. Rondo is a very smart player.

[knicks94]

I think any player from Chris Duhon to Jared Jeffries could fit the triangle on NBA 2K.

The truth is that Rondo brings more negative tangibles than postive ones.

1.He is a lockeroom cancer.

2. He's already had a majory injury.

3.He needs to have possession of the basketball more times than needed to be effective.

4.His jump shot is worse than Shaquille O'neal's career free throw shooting.

5.Has not played more than 70 games in an 82 game season since the 2009-10 season.

[MaseInYourFace]

TIL a lot of people on this board still have that NBA2K gm/Zeke mentality when it comes to building a team.

[Red Vines]

You can maybe argue that he could work in the triangle but when you throw in his price tag it makes no sense. He's getting paid for skills that won't be emphasized in the triangle offense, why would we put our money there?

[nykballa2k4]

Now that we are running the triangle, we don't need a PG like Rondo. His skills would be wasted. Calderon is absolutely fine aside from his defense.

Rondo is a much better fit than Calderon. Calderon fits a need, but lets not forget he was the butt of jokes when he was a raptor and him being traded from TOR was to those fans what getting rid of Jared Jeffries was to knick fans. Meanwhile Rondo is a guy who can produce triple doubles. Rondo would likely play a similar role to kobe/jordan/pippen in the triangle as a post option moreso than a spacer.

But Carmelo is the one that should be playing that role. We want the ball in Melos hands. Rondo needs the ball in his hands to be effective I don't think he's a fit

If Jordan and Pippen can both get touches in the triangle then so can Melo and Rondo.

This is just my opinion though. I understand Rondo has never been put in a situation like the triangle so basically we are all in uncharted opinion-talk here. He does lack the outside shooting skill, however rumors that he has worked on shooting in conjunction with remembering guys like Ron Harper, Pippen were not known for being 3-point threats.

[Forbes]

Rondo is a much better fit than Calderon. Calderon fits a need, but lets not forget he was the butt of jokes when he was a raptor and him being traded from TOR was to those fans what getting rid of Jared Jeffries was to knick fans. Meanwhile Rondo is a guy who can produce triple doubles. Rondo would likely play a similar role to kobe/jordan/pippen in the triangle as a post option moreso than a spacer.

But Carmelo is the one that should be playing that role. We want the ball in Melos hands. Rondo needs the ball in his hands to be effective I don't think he's a fit

If Jordan and Pippen can both get touches in the triangle then so can Melo and Rondo.

This is just my opinion though. I understand Rondo has never been put in a situation like the triangle so basically we are all in uncharted opinion-talk here. He does lack the outside shooting skill, however rumors that he has worked on shooting in conjunction with remembering guys like Ron Harper, Pippen were not known for being 3-point threats.

But Pippen was a very good mid range shooter. Agree it's a tuff call with Rondo because we haven't seen him in this system not do we know what his jumpshot looks like.

[nykballa2k4]

But Carmelo is the one that should be playing that role. We want the ball in Melos hands. Rondo needs the ball in his hands to be effective I don't think he's a fit

If Jordan and Pippen can both get touches in the triangle then so can Melo and Rondo.

This is just my opinion though. I understand Rondo has never been put in a situation like the triangle so basically we are all in uncharted opinion-talk here. He does lack the outside shooting skill, however rumors that he has worked on shooting in conjunction with remembering guys like Ron Harper, Pippen were not known for being 3-point threats.

But Pippen was a very good mid range shooter. Agree it's a tuff call with Rondo because we haven't seen him in this system not do we know what his jumpshot looks like.

Truth.

[Marty McFly]

If we can have Rondo for pennies on the dollar you do that trade. he automatically makes this team a more talented one. Triangle or not. you deal with that other **** later.

[AlphakirA]

A) Fat Kat's post

B) The Triangle is the PG itself. Ball dominant PGs are out of place in this type of offense, add in the fact the Rondo can't stretch the floor and he'd probably end up like Payton. It places a cap on his best skills, penetration, pick and rolls and just being able to control the ball for the vast majority of the game. Now if Rondo was a deadeye 3 shooter and could function off the ball then you could probably work with him.

More important than being a 'deadeye 3 shooter' is being a good passer. The triangle can work for mediocre shooters as they gain more space to shoot open jumpers - something almost everyone in the NBA can do. What it isn't good for is bad passers because the entire infrastructure of the triangle is based around quality passes. Also, there are a ton of picks being set in the triangle as well as cutting/penetration.

Based on Gary Payton's struggles I'll have to disagree with you on that as his issues was similar to Rondo's as a ball dominant, average shooting PG. But to your credit Payton was past his prime and you probably know more about the intricacies of the Triangle than I do but his words seem to go against your statement.

It's hard to really make a comparison between Rondo and any other PG in Phil's system and yeah, you're right, he's not the ideal fit. If they were to go after him two things would have to happen: a) he'd need to take 12-14 mil and b) we wouldn't use him in the tradition sense of 'point guard' but more of a guy that plays in the system and uses his elite defense/wingspan and ball handling to help make his teammates better. I could actually see him playing well alongside of Calderon, not replacing him.

[Dr. Detfink]

Rondo is getting paid $12.9M per. He'll demand a lot more in the open market. Say the Knicks get this guy via trade, for that kind of coin you can forget about trying to get Marc Gasol unless the Knicks unload Calderon and I think that would be a mistake.

[thebuzzardman]

Not sure if Rondo is ideal for the Triangle (he does need the ball a lot...but most "good" pg's seem to) but I don't get this "good PG's not a function of the triangle"

Phil having "ok" PG's in the triangle was more an accident of roster, plus having two SG's who could play like PG"s (Jordan and Kobe) and then a SF who was a point forward - Pippen.

Never got this "PG"s have to spot up scrubs in the triangle"

Now that I'm reading "11 Rings" I really don't get this sort of statement.

Triangle is a method for the players on hand to share the ball. That's it.

[Marty McFly]

Rondo is getting paid $12.9M per. He'll demand a lot more in the open market. Say the Knicks get this guy via trade, for that kind of coin you can forget about trying to get Marc Gasol unless the Knicks unload Calderon and I think that would be a mistake.

that's why you worry about that later. not that it's a possibility, but adding rondo gives you another option if free agency in 2015 is a dud.

[Dr. Detfink]

Rondo is getting paid $12.9M per. He'll demand a lot more in the open market. Say the Knicks get this guy via trade, for that kind of coin you can forget about trying to get Marc Gasol unless the Knicks unload Calderon and I think that would be a mistake.

that's why you worry about that later. not that it's a possibility, but adding rondo gives you another option if free agency in 2015 is a dud.

But that won't get you any closer to a championship because you are adding a player while ignoring needs that the Knicks need last couple years.

[deathdoG]

For people calling others crazy for not wanting Rondo, it's not. It's not crazy to not want a player that will eat in to cap space whilst also not being needed for the system, it's a misallocation of resources. Calderon is more than capable of filling the role of PG within the triangle system, he's an excellent shooter, one of the best in the entire league. The assets to give up for Rondo wouldn't make sense. Ainge is too good of a GM to just take Bargnani, that's a terrible trade for them. They don't want cap space, if they're trading Rondo they want assets to begin a full rebuild.

If it's anyone who we should be going hard after next year it's Marc Gasol. He might not be a flashy name but he makes so much sense it's ridiculous. Surround him and Carmelo with the right role pieces and I really believe that you have a contender. The triangle is great because it doesn't need tons and tons of flashy talent, it just needs the right talent slotted in to the right roles that complement each other.

[aj49689]

I wouldn't waste anytime on Rondo, I would look to draft a point guard before putting out that type of money on a guy like rondo. Rondo could improve after being injured and come back just as good as he was. I would still take my chances with Jose C. first. J-lin made Tyson look unstoppable while Shump was at his best during that Lin-sanity run. All it takes is for fresh blood to step in and set up guys like Amare/Melo like Felton couldn't. First thing is first, point guard has to be able to hit shots. That will open the floor up for others guys to thrive. Defense is the only question and what I've seen is that it can become contagious. Rondo is gonna cost too much and I would rather get a big next season.