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Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline

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Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#1 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Oct 5, 2014 5:39 am

Working on chest passes. Sounds good to me. Seriously, given our lack of discipline on the court last season, this was good Zen move.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/sport ... ref=sports

At West Point, Knicks Seek Something Different: Discipline
OCT. 4, 2014
By SCOTT CACCIOLA

WEST POINT, N.Y. — There was no shortage of material for the Knicks to digest during the first week of preseason practice. With Phil Jackson watching from his courtside perch, Coach Derek Fisher installed bits and pieces of the triangle offense, a work in progress if ever there was one.

But even as the Knicks began to tackle advanced geometry, the coaching staff continued to highlight the basics. Consider a practice last week when the Knicks formed two lines so they could take part in a drill that some had not seen since high school: throwing chest passes.

“It’s unbelievable how many small things we’ve been going over,” J. R. Smith said. “It’s all stuff we’ve heard. It’s just stuff we haven’t done in so long.”

Fundamentals and discipline were two points of emphasis at West Point, which provided a meaningful backdrop for everything that Fisher and Jackson, the team president, hoped to accomplish.

*****

On one level, it was hard not to interpret much of what the Knicks did here as an indictment of everything they did last season. It is worth remembering that they were not particularly good at the basics. They were not disciplined. In fact, there is a catalog of evidence: their end-of-game debacles, their defensive snafus, their inability to avoid reaching for opponents’ shoelaces.

Fisher referred to all the games the Knicks lost by close margins last season. The team neither executed nor communicated, especially when it mattered most.

“If you can get stops at the end of the game, more of those games go in your favor,” Fisher said.

Fisher said he spent much of September mapping out the first week of practice. Part of it had to do with logistics. The Knicks were sharing the gym with Army’s basketball teams. Fisher also said he wanted to carve out time for the players to interact with the cadets.

Last Wednesday, for example, the Knicks dined at the mess hall. Jason Smith, one of the team’s new centers, said watching 4,400 cadets eat lunch in 20 minutes left an impression, calling it “incredible.” Fisher said the team’s practice that afternoon was particularly sharp, and he did not think it was an accident.

“Asking where they come from, what they’re about, what it takes to make it through this — man,” Smith said of his mess-hall experience. “I’m nervous for them.”

From the outside looking in, it might have seemed like a strange mix. Jackson, after all, is known for being more counterculture than conformist. But it was his idea to move training camp to West Point, and from a basketball standpoint it made perfect sense: The triangle is all about order and structure. It also hinges on each player maintaining proper spacing — generally 15 to 18 feet — and becoming part of the whole. The metaphors, then, were impossible to miss.

Clarence Gaines Jr., a basketball adviser for the team, offered a glimpse of practice by posting a series of photos on Twitter. One was of a dribbling drill, and another was of the two-line passing drill, which Gaines described as an ode to Tex Winter, an early innovator of the triangle and one of Jackson’s coaching mentors.

“Fundamentals being taught & emphasized!” Gaines wrote for one post. In another, he cited how order and discipline were “important from start to finish.”

For the players, the back-to-basics routine was almost refreshing. As Amar’e Stoudemire put it, “These fundamentals we’re learning, I feel like I can teach my son them.”

Iman Shumpert recalled doing two-man passing drills in high school, and even some in college. But in his first three seasons with the Knicks? Not so much, he said. He found the refresher course to be useful.

“When we start playing, those passes feel a lot crisper when you’re throwing them,” he said. “You’re more comfortable because you’ve worked at it for 10 to 15 minutes.”

It is especially important in the triangle because the type of pass that is thrown — chest, bounce, hook, lob — is defined by the player’s location on the court and how he is being defended. It might seem like minutiae, but all those movements are choreographed. They mean something.

“Honestly, I used to throw passes however I felt like throwing them,” Shumpert said. “I’d been playing ball for so long, however I could get it to them, I just wanted to get it in their hands. I never thought about it. But this year, they’re making you conscious of everything you’re doing. Everything is controlled, and everything is anticipated.”

Fisher, meanwhile, appeared to have little trouble finding his voice. Cole Aldrich, a center who was a teammate of Fisher’s in Oklahoma City, said none of it came as a surprise. With the Thunder, Fisher was known to reach for the whiteboard during scrimmages and draw up plays. He was authoritative, even as a player.

Said Shumpert, “It sort of seems like he’s done this all before.”

And so it went for the Knicks during week one, a mix of new and old. It was, if nothing else, different.
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#2 » by Bill Pidto » Sun Oct 5, 2014 9:17 am

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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#3 » by GardenFaith » Sun Oct 5, 2014 10:43 am

I like the fact that we are breaking it down and getting back to fundamentals of basketball, taking care of the ball and playing team defence will make or break our season.
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#4 » by j4remi » Sun Oct 5, 2014 1:40 pm

I'll be honest, I like the back to fundamentals approach especially for defense but I'd be lying if I said I had expected a similar approach to passing...but then again, I'm a lifelong PG so I had to keep my passing crisp all the time. It could be useful for other position players.
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#5 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:09 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Working on chest passes. Sounds good to me. Seriously, given our lack of discipline on the court last season, this was good Zen move.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/05/sport ... ref=sports

On one level, it was hard not to interpret much of what the Knicks did here as an indictment of everything they did last season. It is worth remembering that they were not particularly good at the basics. They were not disciplined. In fact, there is a catalog of evidence: their end-of-game debacles, their defensive snafus, their inability to avoid reaching for opponents’ shoelaces.

Fisher referred to all the games the Knicks lost by close margins last season. The team neither executed nor communicated, especially when it mattered most.

“If you can get stops at the end of the game, more of those games go in your favor,” Fisher said.


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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#6 » by Rock Bottom » Sun Oct 5, 2014 2:22 pm

For the players, the back-to-basics routine was almost refreshing. As Amar’e Stoudemire put it, “These fundamentals we’re learning, I feel like I can teach my son them.”

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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#7 » by Thorn » Sun Oct 5, 2014 8:40 pm

Rock Bottom wrote:For the players, the back-to-basics routine was almost refreshing. As Amar’e Stoudemire put it, “These fundamentals we’re learning, I feel like I can teach my son them.”

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We need to start from square one, our team was full of guys last year who thought they were great players... and now they will be able to say they are. You have to learn to crawl before you can run.

Coach is stripping everyone down and starting over at square one.
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#8 » by yaboynyp » Sun Oct 5, 2014 10:16 pm

Refreshing..

All of camp seems dedicated to creating an organizational Identity. Best believe that type of stuff not only helps you on the court but in building your team off it.
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#9 » by GettinitDone » Mon Oct 6, 2014 9:16 am

I am excited.

I see other teams' camp, Kerr having free throw contest with Curry and Byron Scott running high-schoolish drills and practices, ours feels a step above. I feel like each of our practices had a purpose.

I guarantee we will be top 5 in perimeter defense (FG% allowed). And hopefully top 5 defense in paint too.

Don't get me wrong, free throw contests between coaches and players like Kerr had with Curry are fun and all and they help form bond faster, but through Phil's learning, Fisher is able to establish a relaxed yet confident atmosphere by making clear what they do in practices and why they do them... while limiting nonsense to a minimum.

I guarantee another thing: we won't see non-sense like JR Smith windmill his hand celebrating after a 3, or all of mini signature celebrations after a bucket... it's score and get back on defense, or sit down. Of course, JR will have a problem, but this time he will get no support from his teammates because they realize supporting his nonsense gets them nothing but supporting the system gets them playing time, and Coach Fish will be there to see it.

It may sound serious and boring but once the players understand why stopping the non-sense has a direct impact on improving the odds of winning, and when the result/ winning starts to come, they and we the fans will have fun.


I look forward to us having one of the best perimeter defense and hopefully paint defense, and hopefully overall defense! :beer:
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#10 » by blueNorange » Mon Oct 6, 2014 4:38 pm

I forgot cole was a teammage of fisher, he knows the brilliance that is coleworld
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#11 » by emo » Mon Oct 6, 2014 4:43 pm

“Honestly, I used to throw passes however I felt like throwing them,” Shumpert said. “I’d been playing ball for so long, however I could get it to them, I just wanted to get it in their hands. I never thought about it.”


:-?

Sh*t like this makes me wanna put the paws on him...
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#12 » by nykfan42 » Mon Oct 6, 2014 5:58 pm

Incompetence no more! We have people running the show that know what the deal is. Very refreshing as a fan, I trust Phil, I believe in D-Fish, I believe in Melo. Let's GO!
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#13 » by Yankeeknickfan » Mon Oct 6, 2014 7:05 pm

Great this wa a very undisciplined team last yr
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#14 » by Yankeeknickfan » Mon Oct 6, 2014 7:12 pm

GettinitDone wrote:I am excited.

I see other teams' camp, Kerr having free throw contest with Curry and Byron Scott running high-schoolish drills and practices, ours feels a step above. I feel like each of our practices had a purpose.

I guarantee we will be top 5 in perimeter defense (FG% allowed). And hopefully top 5 defense in paint too.

Don't get me wrong, free throw contests between coaches and players like Kerr had with Curry are fun and all and they help form bond faster, but through Phil's learning, Fisher is able to establish a relaxed yet confident atmosphere by making clear what they do in practices and why they do them... while limiting nonsense to a minimum.

I guarantee another thing: we won't see non-sense like JR Smith windmill his hand celebrating after a 3, or all of mini signature celebrations after a bucket... it's score and get back on defense, or sit down. Of course, JR will have a problem, but this time he will get no support from his teammates because they realize supporting his nonsense gets them nothing but supporting the system gets them playing time, and Coach Fish will be there to see it.

It may sound serious and boring but once the players understand why stopping the non-sense has a direct impact on improving the odds of winning, and when the result/ winning starts to come, they and we the fans will have fun.


I look forward to us having one of the best perimeter defense and hopefully paint defense, and hopefully overall defense! :beer:
that celebrating drove me nuts when they did it while losing
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#15 » by nykballa2k4 » Tue Oct 7, 2014 4:39 am

emo wrote:
“Honestly, I used to throw passes however I felt like throwing them,” Shumpert said. “I’d been playing ball for so long, however I could get it to them, I just wanted to get it in their hands. I never thought about it.”


:-?

Sh*t like this makes me wanna put the paws on him...


It's hilarious, everything is being called "the basics" yet all our players seem to be learning something. It would be like teaching basic math to cashiers. YOU SHOULD HAVE BEEN DOING THIS ALREADY.

Then again how much of this is an ass-covering act.
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#16 » by spaceballer » Tue Oct 7, 2014 11:18 pm

I'm surprised JR had the tact to not bring his quarter million dollar army surplus military armored tank to West Point :lol:
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#17 » by emo » Wed Oct 8, 2014 12:01 am

spaceballer wrote:I'm surprised JR had the tact to not bring his quarter million dollar army surplus military armored tank to West Point :lol:


That wasn't his. Belonged to Slow Bucks.
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Guano wrote:Will be interesting to see how this place transitions from killing Melo to turning on KP. I'm hoping Frank shows out so we can divide into Frank vs KP factions. That should be fun.
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Re: Knicks at West Point - Fundamentals and Discipline 

Post#18 » by SmoothLefty21 » Wed Oct 8, 2014 2:11 pm

If anyone has read any of Phil's books it's obvious to see how much of a disciple Fish is. I'm pumped, Fish understands and doesn't ignore the "little things".

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